37 replies to this topic

[sacook817]

Dave,

I'm calling it now.  Eagles trade Nick Foles and the 4th overall pick in the 2013 NFL Draft to the Kansas City Chiefs for the 1st overall pick.  With that pick...the Eagles select Luke Joeckel, OT, Texas A&M.

You have to love this time of year.  I'm going to add that with the 4th selection in the 2013 NFL Draft the Chiefs will select Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama (if available) or Eric Fischer, OT Central Michigan.

I love Foles too much, but this makes total sense for both teams.

[michaels maniacs]

stupid trade

[downundermike]

Why.......stay at 4 and draft Fisher, or Jordan, or Womack.....

[mjkvol]

I'd lose a ton of faith in Roseman if he ever made an idiotic deal like that, unless he got an additional pick, like KC's 3rd rounder.

We have too many needs to pay that kind of price for any prospect in this draft.       This is exactly the kind of asinine deal Reid would actually have made while he was here.

No thanks.

downundermike, on 18 February 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Why.......stay at 4 and draft Fisher, or Jordan, or Womack.....

Or, hopefully none of them.

Give me Star or a trade down for more picks and Milliner

[downundermike]

mjkvol, on 18 February 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'd lose a ton of faith in Roseman if he ever made an idiotic deal like that, unless he got an additional pick, like KC's 3rd rounder.

We have too many needs to pay that kind of price for any prospect in this draft.    This is exactly the kind of asinine deal Reid would actually have made while he was here.

No thanks.



Or, hopefully none of them.

Give me Star or a trade down for more picks and Milliner

Not interested in Milliner, Xavier Rhodes all day.

[mjkvol]

downundermike, on 18 February 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Not interested in Milliner, Xavier Rhodes all day.

Not this early, though.      

But I'll be damned if I would help Reid even a little.       If he wants Foles, make him pay a price.

[Highboy]

There's no need to trade, I don't even want to trade down for draft picks. I want a quality blue chip player for once in the first round. I'm hoping for Joeckel all day but if we get a defensive stud I won't cry about that either. (though I agree with downundermike, my mock would have us taking Rhodes in the second round) Whether our QB is Foles, or if we're just skating by till next year's draft to land a QB, the offensive line is paramount. Get the stud LT for the next 10 years and use the rest of the picks on defense. Trading Foles for a 4th when we have little to no other options would be foolish in my opinion. I'd rather see what he's got for a full season because if there's a chance he can be the QB, its one less crucial position we have to worry about building in the next 2-3 years. If he sucks, we don't have to deviate from the plan one centimeter.

[SBorBust]

With the quarterback in place, I don't think that Reid would give up the chance at Joeckel... unless he likes Fisher better.

[CT Eagle]

Stupid

sacook817, on 18 February 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Dave,

I'm calling it now.  Eagles trade Nick Foles and the 4th overall pick in the 2013 NFL Draft to the Kansas City Chiefs for the 1st overall pick.  With that pick...the Eagles select Luke Joeckel, OT, Texas A&M.

You have to love this time of year.  I'm going to add that with the 4th selection in the 2013 NFL Draft the Chiefs will select Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama (if available) or Eric Fischer, OT Central Michigan.

I love Foles too much, but this makes total sense for both teams.

How could you possibly say this makes sense for both teams unless you know how they have their draft board set up and how they value Foles ?

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 18 February 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Not this early, though.   

But I'll be damned if I would help Reid even a little.    If he wants Foles, make him pay a price.

If the Eagles don't think Foles will be the starter at QB and they have Joeckel as the highest rated player in the draft (by some significant metric or margin), it is a no brainer.  It wouldn't be helping Reid so much as it would be helping the Eagles. You could also make the same argument about Star L who may be on the Eagles radar.
I think those are the only two players the Eagles might love that may not be there at #4.

[mjkvol]

I don't want either, to be honest.       This draft is deep, but not at all top heavy, and there is a lot of depth at OL and DT.

I'd love a trade down, and hopefully get a Dion Jordan and extra picks.      Maybe just wishful thinking.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 19 February 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

I don't want either, to be honest.    This draft is deep, but not at all top heavy, and there is a lot of depth at OL and DT.

I'd love a trade down, and hopefully get a Dion Jordan and extra picks.   Maybe just wishful thinking.

If they project Star L as a Ngata type stud or Joeckel as a can't miss pro bowl LT you just can't pass on those types of players imo.  If they view those guys as only marginally better than other options, by all means trade down.
I am surprised the Eagles haven't brought George Wilson in for a look.  He is a better than average SS that would certainly be an upgrade to what we have on the roster.  More importantly, he is a very high character veteran player who was a team captain and leader. He was also a player union rep I think and has done lots of good charity and community work.  He is just what the secondary needs in my opinion.

In Gamble I trust.

[mjkvol]

Totally agree on Wilson, but I don't think anyone can be brought in right now, can they?      Gotta wait for FA to start.

You know what?     I'm with you in trusting whatever it is these guys decide to do.      Nice to be able to say that for the first time since the last century.

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 19 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Totally agree on Wilson, but I don't think anyone can be brought in right now, can they?   Gotta wait for FA to start.

You know what? I'm with you in trusting whatever it is these guys decide to do.   Nice to be able to say that for the first time since the last century.

I trust them for now until they give more a reason not to. But I just can't harp on drafting Joeckel enough. A defensive stud like Star or someone like that would be great but the depth for OT's while deep, there is a big drop off after Joeckel and Fisher, and Joeckel is seen by many as the best player in the entire draft. When you have him as the BPA and he fills one of your biggest needs at the same time you just have to pull the trigger. But if they got Star or some other stud I'd be cool with that. I just want a legit, top 5 player. I see your point in trading down but its been over a decade since we picked this high and I want finally a blue chip player whose going to be a pro bowler at his position for years to come. From where I'm sitting, that is Joeckel and the pick isn't just about the LT or RT position but about what it does for the whole offensive line. If by one pick you can almost instantly turn your offensive line into one of the best if not the best in the league and make turn the whole area from a weakness to a strength than that is true value. Just my opinion.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 19 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Totally agree on Wilson, but I don't think anyone can be brought in right now, can they?   Gotta wait for FA to start.

You know what? I'm with you in trusting whatever it is these guys decide to do.   Nice to be able to say that for the first time since the last century.

Wilson was actually cut as the new regime/coach are overhauling their roster.  Wilson has visited a few teams already and is fair game.  He isn't a game changer but is likely a solid SS and definitely would be an upgrade to the roster and the character of the team. I can't figure out why the Eagles wouldn't have an interest...but I guess as I said earlier, in Gamble I trust.

[sacook817]

I trust Gamble will do the right thing.  I have faith in the man's evaluation skill.  We don't know about Jason Peters' recovery, so OT has got to be our #1 priority.  I keep forgetting this is no longer the past regime.  We will make GOOD decisions with TOP picks.  :)  Our track record hasn't been exactly stellar.  If we switch to a 3-4 - a stud NT makes sense.  That would cause us to admit Cox was an oops last year.  I'm not into trading down to collect more picks.  We have done that too often - only to end up with sub-standard players.  Once again, I reiterate - I have faith in Gamble.

[CT Eagle]

sacook817, on 19 February 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

I trust Gamble will do the right thing.  I have faith in the man's evaluation skill.  We don't know about Jason Peters' recovery, so OT has got to be our #1 priority.  I keep forgetting this is no longer the past regime.  We will make GOOD decisions with TOP picks.  :)  Our track record hasn't been exactly stellar.  If we switch to a 3-4 - a stud NT makes sense.  That would cause us to admit Cox was an oops last year.  I'm not into trading down to collect more picks.  We have done that too often - only to end up with sub-standard players.  Once again, I reiterate - I have faith in Gamble.

We are switching to a 3-4 and that doesn't mean Cox or Kendricks were oops picks (but It may mean that B Graham, V Curry were). There are a few articles on Butch Davis' defensive scheme you should look at that detail his scheme and the responsibilities of the front 7.

[sacook817]

Davis' scheme looks like a 3-4 I know.  It also involves a "Predator" LB...this could very easily be Kendricks or maybe even Graham.  Cox lacks ELITE size to play NT.  It will be interesting to see what this 3-4 will bring us in FA as well as "who goes".  I haven't been this stoked about a draft in a LONG time.

[CT Eagle]

sacook817, on 19 February 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

Davis' scheme looks like a 3-4 I know.  It also involves a "Predator" LB...this could very easily be Kendricks or maybe even Graham.  Cox lacks ELITE size to play NT.  It will be interesting to see what this 3-4 will bring us in FA as well as "who goes".  I haven't been this stoked about a draft in a LONG time.

  You know ?  Then you should also know that Cox isn't likely to play NT.


The 3- technique defensive tackle to the weak side (away from the tight end) in a 4-3, or the defensive end to the weak side in a 3-4 is a featured player in this system.  He will be able to put pressure on the quarterback and get into the offensive backfield because team’s won’t be able to double team him very easily because the weak side offensive tackle will be blocking the defensive defensive end or linebacker which were talking about.  Here’s Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll talking about that player.
“The 3-technique player should be your premier interior pass rusher,” Carroll said. “He is going to get a lot of one on one blocks as it is hard to double team him because of where he lines up.”
Haloti Ngata played this position for the Ravens and Cox would be playing it for the Eagles.  Again, it will give him the opportunity to be one-on-one most of the time with the other team’s offensive guard on pass plays.  This should be a great matchup for the Eagles.  Hopefully Cox will be able to dominate in the same way Ngata has for the Ravens for quite a few years.

[Highboy]

It hasn't been made official we're switching to a 3-4. Chip said personnel will dictate the scheme. But regardless, some mocks have us landing Jessie Williams of Alabama in the second round.

[CT Eagle]

Highboy, on 19 February 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

It hasn't been made official we're switching to a 3-4. Chip said personnel will dictate the scheme. But regardless, some mocks have us landing Jessie Williams of Alabama in the second round.

Are you waiting for an official statement ?

I think it is pretty obvious what type of defensive scheme Butch Davis runs which you can call a 3-4, a hybrid, or a 4-3 under.  The personnel may dictate the scheme but they will fill the roster with players that fit the scheme they want to employ.

[mjkvol]

From what I can tell, it looks like they want to do something like Carroll's 4-3 Under, which incorporates 2, 3, and 4 man fronts at times.        Cox can play DT in a 4-3 or DE in a 3-4.       I'm sure personnel will have a lot to do with it, and I would think they want something to maximize what Cole and Graham can do.

[gameshowfan91]

worst. trade idea. ever.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 20 February 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

From what I can tell, it looks like they want to do something like Carroll's 4-3 Under, which incorporates 2, 3, and 4 man fronts at times. Cox can play DT in a 4-3 or DE in a 3-4.    I'm sure personnel will have a lot to do with it, and I would think they want something to maximize what Cole and Graham can do.

Here is a good article on what is expected to be Davis' scheme.
http://www.phillymag...-the-4-3-under/

[mjkvol]

CT Eagle, on 20 February 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Here is a good article on what is expected to be Davis' scheme.
http://www.phillymag...-the-4-3-under/

Yep, I had seen it.     Thanks.

[CT Eagle]

mjkvol, on 20 February 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

Yep, I had seen it. Thanks.

HB is waiting for an official announcement !  

[DaveSpadaro]

I don't get the sense that the Eagles are going to trade Foles unless they are blown away with a can't-refuse-this-offer offer. I think they like the kid very much. That said, nobody is untouchable here.
But, yeah, it's a fun time of the year. I enjoy the rumors. I enjoy more than that the ACTION that is forthcoming ...

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 20 February 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

HB is waiting for an official announcement !  

Um, no. I'm simply going by what Davis himself is quoted as saying, and what even the article you just referenced is saying. Seeing as how its basically saying that Davis' formation/scheme isn't really a 3-4, I fail to see how everyone is jumping to the conclusion that its a 3-4. Its not "waiting for an announcement". But feel free to post as many smilies as you wish.

mjkvol, on 20 February 2013 - 12:04 AM, said:

From what I can tell, it looks like they want to do something like Carroll's 4-3 Under, which incorporates 2, 3, and 4 man fronts at times. Cox can play DT in a 4-3 or DE in a 3-4.    I'm sure personnel will have a lot to do with it, and I would think they want something to maximize what Cole and Graham can do.

Which is what the article CT posted even says, so the idea that we're switching to a 3-4 base at least so far isn't substantiated by anything. The 4-3 under is not a 3-4.

[CT Eagle]

Highboy, on 20 February 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

The 4-3 under is not a 3-4.

The 4-3 under or hybrid is or had been commonly referred to as a 3-4 defense.  The point is that it isn't a 4-3 defense and the ideal skill sets and responsibilities for the front 7 (mostly the olbs are different).  I have real concerns about how Cole, Graham, and Curry will fit in and a bigger concern that we have no legit NT and are short one OLB.  It should be an interesting draft and FA period and it will be fun seeing things fall into place.  I just don't know that I can deal with more than one additional down season.....

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 20 February 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

The 4-3 under or hybrid is or had been commonly referred to as a 3-4 defense.  The point is that it isn't a 4-3 defense and the ideal skill sets and responsibilities for the front 7 (mostly the olbs are different).  I have real concerns about how Cole, Graham, and Curry will fit in and a bigger concern that we have no legit NT and are short one OLB.  It should be an interesting draft and FA period and it will be fun seeing things fall into place.  I just don't know that I can deal with more than one additional down season.....

I don't disagree with that, I'm simply saying it doesn't have to necessarily be one scheme or the other just because Davis is the DC. Chip said in his original press conference that he will let the skill sets of the personnel dictate the scheme and that's what I'm going by. Until we actually see the product on the field or at least see what kind of players we draft we can only speculate what formation/scheme we'll ultimately run. Even if we run a pure 3-4 though it doesn't have to mean Trent Cole has to do anything but rush the passer, the way Mario Williams did nothing but rush the passer as an OLB in Houston.