95 replies to this topic

[sacook817]

Dave,

Jenkins and Patterson in the same day.  Wow.  We are either stoked about Dixon playing NT...not too sure about that.  We go after Aubrayo Franklin in FA, or have shown we love Star L in the draft.  Franklin or Star would both thrive in this new system, and would compliment Cox well.  No, I don't think our defense is a "couple of years away" in transition.  The problem with youth is lack of experience.  That may not be such a bad thing here.

I still hope we snag some help on our OL which appears to be deep in this year's draft class.  I hope Gamble can keep finding diamonds in the rough.

[BDAWK_4EVER]

Floyd is pushing for the top DT spot. Lotulelei's heart condition may scare teams in the top 5 away

[PoconoDon]

BDAWK_4EVER, on 25 February 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Floyd is pushing for the top DT spot. Lotulelei's heart condition may scare teams in the top 5 away

                                                                                           THIS ^

[dmor]

sacook817, on 25 February 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Dave,

Jenkins and Patterson in the same day.  Wow.  We are either stoked about Dixon playing NT...not too sure about that.  We go after Aubrayo Franklin in FA, or have shown we love Star L in the draft.  Franklin or Star would both thrive in this new system, and would compliment Cox well.  No, I don't think our defense is a "couple of years away" in transition.  The problem with youth is lack of experience.  That may not be such a bad thing here.

I still hope we snag some help on our OL which appears to be deep in this year's draft class.  I hope Gamble can keep finding diamonds in the rough.

I ain't burning a number 4 on someone with a heart condition that couldn't make the combine.

[Rodney_Zero]

I'm all for taking a disruptive DT for a 4-3 defense, not so sure a NT for a 3-4  D with the 4th overall pick.

[DaveSpadaro]

I guess I don't focus solely on the first round in the draft. I see opportunities throughout. Will the Eagles address the D line in the weeks ahead? It sure seems like it. There aren't a lot of numbers there. But I think the Eagles aren't going into the draft with their eyes on one player or one position. Clearly the defense needs a lot of aid throughout the offseason. Where that comes from and who those players are, I don't know.

[egforever]

DaveSpadaro, on 26 February 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I guess I don't focus solely on the first round in the draft. I see opportunities throughout. Will the Eagles address the D line in the weeks ahead? It sure seems like it. There aren't a lot of numbers there. But I think the Eagles aren't going into the draft with their eyes on one player or one position. Clearly the defense needs a lot of aid throughout the offseason. Where that comes from and who those players are, I don't know.

Come on and throw us  a little hint Dave!!!

[sacook817]

Sorry guys - I just heard about the heart condition today.  Yes, I would agree, no way I'm chancing the 4th overall pick on a red flag like that.  Ugh.  Warmack looked sluggish and Luke Joeckel looked almost lazy.  I hope Tom Gamble can figure these guys out.

[evilwaldo]

The heart condition is just noise

[mjkvol]

If we can't trade down, the only player I'm interested in at #4 is Jordan.        This is a guy teams will regret passing on in 2-3 years - a guy you build a defense around.

It'd be nice to be the team that drafts 'the stud', especially now when we're finally getting a fresh start.

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 26 February 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

If we can't trade down, the only player I'm interested in at #4 is Jordan. This is a guy teams will regret passing on in 2-3 years - a guy you build a defense around.

It'd be nice to be the team that drafts 'the stud', especially now when we're finally getting a fresh start.

Why not an offensive tackle? Not only do you plug a major hole with the best player available, you turn an entire unit (the line) into the biggest strength on your team. Sorry, but I watched the entire Combine and the only players worth pounding the table for as a top 10 pick were all offensive lineman, at least until Millner ran his 4.3 today. A lot of very good defensive players, but as far as top 10 talents go, not so much.

[mjkvol]

Highboy, on 26 February 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

Why not an offensive tackle? Not only do you plug a major hole with the best player available, you turn an entire unit (the line) into the biggest strength on your team. Sorry, but I watched the entire Combine and the only players worth pounding the table for as a top 10 pick were all offensive lineman, at least until Millner ran his 4.3 today. A lot of very good defensive players, but as far as top 10 talents go, not so much.

I've loved Milliner from watching him many times last season, just not at #4.

Like I've said to you before, if they take a LT it will be fine.     It's a need and there are good ones that should be available.    I guess I'm looking for more than "fine" with Reid finally gone.

Jordan is going to be a player you kick yourself for not taking in a couple of years - maybe the only one in this draft other than Jarvis Jones if his health issues don't stop him.     We haven't had a real defensive playmaker in the front 7 since the Buddy Ryan defense, and this guy has 'impact player' written all over him.

We've been through a decade and a half of filling holes by picking linemen, although Reid generally overpaid and reached.      I want to be the team that gets 'the guy' in the draft, and although you may not agree, no offensive lineman in this draft will be seen as 'the guy' in 2-3 years and beyond.       Jordan, on the other hand, will be ripping the league up if he's healthy and in the right spot.

[KOJO]

mjkvol, on 26 February 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Jordan is going to be a player you kick yourself for not taking in a couple of years - maybe the only one in this draft other than Jarvis Jones if his health issues don't stop him. We haven't had a real defensive playmaker in the front 7 since the Buddy Ryan defense, and this guy has 'impact player' written all over him.

We've been through a decade and a half of filling holes by picking linemen, although Reid generally overpaid and reached.   I want to be the team that gets 'the guy' in the draft, and although you may not agree, no offensive lineman in this draft will be seen as 'the guy' in 2-3 years and beyond.    Jordan, on the other hand, will be ripping the league up if he's healthy and in the right spot.

I see a lot of boom or bust potential with Jordan, much like the guy he is sometimes compared to had when coming out (JPP).

It's probably entirely irrational, but whenever I see one of these DE/OLBs with freakish measureables I have flashbacks of Jon Harris. Nevertheless I'd be excited if we took him.

[mjkvol]

KOJO, on 26 February 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

I see a lot of boom or bust potential with Jordan, much like the guy he is sometimes compared to had when coming out (JPP).

It's probably entirely irrational, but whenever I see one of these DE/OLBs with freakish measureables I have flashbacks of Jon Harris. Nevertheless I'd be excited if we took him.

I don't know that this guy is some kind of workout warrior or Combine freak, though, KO.    He's a player who was a warrior on the field, played with pain, and was productive in college.

You win Super Bowls with playmakers at impact positions. To me, teams that already have those playmakers draft offensive linemen with 1st rounders, especially if it's a glaring need. OL is not a 'glaring' need here with the guys we're getting back, and it can be addressed in FA and later rounds.

We need defensive playmakers more than anything else, in my opinion.   You can always find OL, but rare talents like Jordan and JPP don't grow on trees.    Let's not fall into the Reid trap again with him finally the hell out of here.

[Highboy]

Dion Jordan has the athleticism and had the production in college to be sure, but the battlefield is riddled with the bodies of guys projected to be these insane pass rushers who never pan out. I'm not interested in "the guy", I want the best player available, and the only position where the play at the top seems to transcend the rest of this draft class in terms of top 10 potential are the offensive lineman.

[mjkvol]

Highboy, on 27 February 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Dion Jordan has the athleticism and had the production in college to be sure, but the battlefield is riddled with the bodies of guys projected to be these insane pass rushers who never pan out. I'm not interested in "the guy", I want the best player available, and the only position where the play at the top seems to transcend the rest of this draft class in terms of top 10 potential are the offensive lineman.

I believe the battlefield is riddled with bodies of every conceivable position and type of player.        Remember Robert Gallery?      He was as "can't miss" as there ever was.      

Give me a potential game changer like Jordan, or give me a bunch of picks that could potentially produce starters.      I'd rather trade down, then trade down again, and have multiple 2's and 3's than take an offensive lineman at #4.

[evilwaldo]

sacook817, on 25 February 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Dave,

Jenkins and Patterson in the same day.  Wow.  We are either stoked about Dixon playing NT...not too sure about that.  We go after Aubrayo Franklin in FA, or have shown we love Star L in the draft.  Franklin or Star would both thrive in this new system, and would compliment Cox well.  No, I don't think our defense is a "couple of years away" in transition.  The problem with youth is lack of experience.  That may not be such a bad thing here.

I still hope we snag some help on our OL which appears to be deep in this year's draft class.  I hope Gamble can keep finding diamonds in the rough.

Maybe a dirt star.  

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 27 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

I believe the battlefield is riddled with bodies of every conceivable position and type of player. Remember Robert Gallery?   He was as "can't miss" as there ever was.   

Give me a potential game changer like Jordan, or give me a bunch of picks that could potentially produce starters.   I'd rather trade down, then trade down again, and have multiple 2's and 3's than take an offensive lineman at #4.

I hear you, but seeing as how we haven't been able to draft this high in over a decade, I'd rather take the opportunity to get a real blue chip prospect. While Dion Jordan was considered a very good defensive prospect before the Combine, I don't think blowing up drills wearing shorts makes a guy worth taking higher than what his actual on field production originally valued. While offensive tackles have certainly been busts before, its not even close to the level of boom/bust potential with these freakish athletic types who you have to project at the next level, as opposed to being able look at a guy like Fisher or Joeckel and be able to see right away where/how they fit. I'm not trying to bicker, just having a discussion, which is all we can do until draft day.

[mjkvol]

Highboy, on 27 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I hear you, but seeing as how we haven't been able to draft this high in over a decade, I'd rather take the opportunity to get a real blue chip prospect. While Dion Jordan was considered a very good defensive prospect before the Combine, I don't think blowing up drills wearing shorts makes a guy worth taking higher than what his actual on field production originally valued. While offensive tackles have certainly been busts before, its not even close to the level of boom/bust potential with these freakish athletic types who you have to project at the next level, as opposed to being able look at a guy like Fisher or Joeckel and be able to see right away where/how they fit. I'm not trying to bicker, just having a discussion, which is all we can do until draft day.

Oh, no doubt - that's the fun of leading up to draft day, right?

It's for the very reason that we're at #4 that i don't want to go with a "safe" pick that will be "fine".    I've seen "fine" accepted here for the last decade and a half, and now I want more, and am willing to take a risk to get an all-world game changer instead of a "nice, safe" pick at #4.

Jordan is not a product of the Combine - true, he helped himself there, but this isn't Mike Mamula, for crying out loud.   He has been talked about as a Top 10 pick all along, and now has only enhanced his status.   

We just picked the wrong year to have a Top 5 pick - this is a three round draft where there is a lot of quality but few locks.    If I'm going to use a #4 pick, it's going to be on a guy who can be a true difference maker and cause nightmares for opposing coaches, and Jordan might be the only player in this draft with that kind of potential.

[mav81]

I see either Jordan or Milliner with our pick.

[CT Eagle]

mav81, on 27 February 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

I see either Jordan or Milliner with our pick.

If Joeckel is off the board and they aren't madly in love with Fisher or Warmack...then I agree with you.

Now that KC traded for A Smith (according to ESPN), I think it is a safe bet that Reid drafts Joeckel.

Milliner seems to clearly be the best CB but I don't know that he is projected as a stud shut down corner.

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 27 February 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

Oh, no doubt - that's the fun of leading up to draft day, right?

It's for the very reason that we're at #4 that i don't want to go with a "safe" pick that will be "fine".    I've seen "fine" accepted here for the last decade and a half, and now I want more, and am willing to take a risk to get an all-world game changer instead of a "nice, safe" pick at #4.

Jordan is not a product of the Combine - true, he helped himself there, but this isn't Mike Mamula, for crying out loud.   He has been talked about as a Top 10 pick all along, and now has only enhanced his status.   

We just picked the wrong year to have a Top 5 pick - this is a three round draft where there is a lot of quality but few locks.    If I'm going to use a #4 pick, it's going to be on a guy who can be a true difference maker and cause nightmares for opposing coaches, and Jordan might be the only player in this draft with that kind of potential.

I'm not saying Jordan is a product of the Combine, though I think its pretty weird to say he's not at this juncture either. He was considered one of the better defensive prospects to begin with. What I'm saying is though that his top ten "status" IS a product of the Combine. He wasn't in any top 10 discussion before blowing up the workouts, but the workouts aren't what any team should be basing their draft on. Their boards were mostly set going in and the Combine is just a matter of cross checking what you see or don't see. I'd be fine with the Jordan pick, its just that I don't see top 10 talent. Top 10 potential maybe but that's all it is at this juncture.

I will say though that if I could see into my crystal ball and that we would land at least a Kyle Long at the top of the third round (our second rounder has to go to safety or corner if we go Jordan in the first) than I'd be cool with it. Chip would look pretty homerish for using two of his top 3 picks on Oregon athletes but if they're the bpa than who cares? Long is seen as someone who could start in the NFL at RT or guard.

CT Eagle, on 27 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

If Joeckel is off the board and they aren't madly in love with Fisher or Warmack...then I agree with you.

Now that KC traded for A Smith (according to ESPN), I think it is a safe bet that Reid drafts Joeckel.

Milliner seems to clearly be the best CB but I don't know that he is projected as a stud shut down corner.

If we're not going offensive line I'm not sure I'd take Millner at 4.

[CT Eagle]

Highboy, on 27 February 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

If we're not going offensive line I'm not sure I'd take Millner at 4.

I agree with you.....but I am not sure I would take a 3-4 OLB either.
This is a total guess, but I imagine the bust potential at 3-4 OLB is higher than most and there isn't a Von Miller type in the draft that I have read about.

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 27 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I agree with you.....but I am not sure I would take a 3-4 OLB either.

And I agree with that. I like Dion Jordan a lot, don't get me wrong, and everything I'm reading says he could work in either scheme. He could even play OLB  in a 4-3 supposedly. His athleticism gives you a lot of creative options. But too much of it banks on "potential". If we have to go defense at 4 I wouldn't mind Star if his heart is okay.

[CT Eagle]

Highboy, on 27 February 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

And I agree with that. I like Dion Jordan a lot, don't get me wrong, and everything I'm reading says he could work in either scheme. He could even play OLB  in a 4-3 supposedly. His athleticism gives you a lot of creative options. But too much of it banks on "potential". If we have to go defense at 4 I wouldn't mind Star if his heart is okay.

Sharrif Floyd is moving up the boards and may be a legit option as well.

[Highboy]

CT Eagle, on 27 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Sharrif Floyd is moving up the boards and may be a legit option as well.

Mayock has him as his top defensive lineman. I really wanted Joeckel though and its probable Reid grabs him. Keeping my fingers crossed we get Fisher or even Lane Johnson.

[mav81]

CT Eagle, on 27 February 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

If Joeckel is off the board and they aren't madly in love with Fisher or Warmack...then I agree with you.

Now that KC traded for A Smith (according to ESPN), I think it is a safe bet that Reid drafts Joeckel.

Milliner seems to clearly be the best CB but I don't know that he is projected as a stud shut down corner.

There are a lot of quality linemen to be had in later rounds. I agree that Jordan is an impact guy, and we have no rush LB for the 3-4 or hybrid 4-3. I think he's the most likely choice.

I also think there are some good CBs to be had in the second and third rounds, but Miliner really helped his case with the combine 40 he ran.

[mjkvol]

Highboy, on 27 February 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Mayock has him as his top defensive lineman. I really wanted Joeckel though and its probable Reid grabs him. Keeping my fingers crossed we get Fisher or even Lane Johnson.

I guess my hope then is that OL are the first three picks .... lol.       And Warmack??       My God, I thought those days were finally behind us -  hopefully the idiot picking first will take the guard to protect his new "franchise QB".

When I start crossing my fingers for an offensive lineman at number f****ng  four, I give up.        Let the mediocrity continue, and the game changers go to the winners.

[Rodney_Zero]

mjkvol, on 26 February 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

If we can't trade down, the only player I'm interested in at #4 is Jordan. This is a guy teams will regret passing on in 2-3 years - a guy you build a defense around.

It'd be nice to be the team that drafts 'the stud', especially now when we're finally getting a fresh start.

"What makes this guy good on the field? He's played on the defensive side of the ball for 1 1/2 seasons which quates to roughly 18 games. His stats aren't eye popping by any means..5 sacks this year"

So at 4 I would go CB then OT, other than Namdi (if he's still here?), what do we have at CB?, LB's for a 3-4 can be found,
Houston- Barwin & Reed
KC- Justin Houston
SD- Phillips
SF- Bowman & Brooks
Steelers- every year they find guys
Balt- Kruger, Jarret Johnson<--(W/ SD now), Ellerbee, and former Raven Scott

* FA wiil also dictact our draft if we start to plug in holes at NT and DL and other positions

[Highboy]

mjkvol, on 27 February 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

I guess my hope then is that OL are the first three picks .... lol.    And Warmack??    My God, I thought those days were finally behind us -  hopefully the idiot picking first will take the guard to protect his new "franchise QB".

When I start crossing my fingers for an offensive lineman at number f****ng  four, I give up. Let the mediocrity continue, and the game changers go to the winners.

WTF? What is "mediocre" about getting a stud LT? If you want Chip to have a smidgen of a chance at turning this team around than protecting the quarterback, whoever that ends up being, is paramount. NFL coaches know this. I don't get how taking the BPA is "mediocre" just because that BPA happens to be a less than exciting offensive lineman. That isn't mediocre, that's taking the most talented player.