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GorillaSam

D Vermeil is ON THE MONEY!

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"Personally, I don't think it had any effect on the game," Vermeil said. "That stuff's been going on forever and I don't think you gain from it.

"By the time you play the Super Bowl, let's face it, you've seen them in 16 games plus the playoffs. You're walking through it. That's why they play the game."

"I just know it's been going on for years," Vermeil said. "It's more of an integrity issue than anything else."

God, why are people listening to media tools fishing for stories instead of Coaches like Vermeil and Madden who have both said THE SAME EXACT THING.

I haven't heard ONE coach analyst come out and rip the Patriots for Spygate.

America is SO NAIVE to believe this incident is limited to the Patriots.

heck, Matt Walsh was hired by PETE CARROL in 1998! Yet nobody talks about that...

I guess Belichick's name is just easier to modify into some sort of cheating pun...clever...

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The thing is, if its against the rules, its against the rules. This stuff saying everybody does it just doesn't fly. I'm sure a lot of teams have done it and still do.

But if one team in the entire NFL doesn't do it, its wrong.

The league needs to look at this and clearly establish whats against the rules and whats not instead of trying to justify it with lame excuses.

You can sit here all day and ramble on how everybody does this, and I have no doubt its been done by other teams and probably still is. But the Patriots were the ones caught, and you have to decide either its against the rules or it isn't.

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The thing is, if its against the rules, its against the rules. This stuff saying everybody does it just doesn't fly. I'm sure a lot of teams have done it and still do.

But if one team in the entire NFL doesn't do it, its wrong.

The league needs to look at this and clearly establish whats against the rules and whats not instead of trying to justify it with lame excuses.

You can sit here all day and ramble on how everybody does this, and I have no doubt its been done by other teams and probably still is. But the Patriots were the ones caught, and you have to decide either its against the rules or it isn't.

my point is, the scandal is WAAAAY overrated an I don't want to see it ruin the game...bringing congress in it is the first step to disaster

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Regardless of who's doing it... it's only been proven that one team has DONE it thus far. I'm pretty sure the other teams that have "done it" (and we know, there are many) have already destroyed the evidence... that being said, don't complain about this being a bad thing... you're an eagles fan right? As of now it is only the New England Patriots feeling the wrath, and as far as i'm concerned, it's good for them.

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So if a group of people commit murder . One of them gets caught. Is it alright to use the excuse everyone else is doing it ?

That's a pretty outlandish statement. Comparing murder and watching people practice is completely different. People are just trying to vilify the Pats for being good this year and the past few years. Besides the Patriots already penalized. They paid a huge fine and had a 1st rounder taken away which will hurt them.

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So if a group of people commit murder . One of them gets caught. Is it alright to use the excuse everyone else is doing it ?

it's more like convicting a guy of murder who stole a pack a juicy fruit from the convenient store.

it may be wrong, but tons of people do it and it really isn't that big a deal

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Of course all these people who are in football aren't going to call anybody out for it. Football is their livelihood, they're going to protect it at all costs. No matter what is right or not.

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As for shoplifting, respectfully, you're wrong that it's "not that big a deal." I worked in a retail store and I chased a guy across the parking lot who took some videos, and the cops caught him while I was chasing him. It's a long way from murder, but stealing is stealing, and that shoplifter is taking money from someone else. Is it different if the shoplifter grabs a couple of dollars out of the cash register and runs for it?

Kurt Warner, whose Rams lost to the Pats, called for the NFL to expand its probe, and now he's gone into zip mode and talking through his agent. Do you really think this isn't a big deal?

I'll say it again, if everyone does it, they should abolish the rule and make it clear that everyone can do as much as they want. Level the playing field. It's like prohibition for pete's sake.

Me personally? I'd:

- give headsets to DC's and one defensive player

- allow teams to let their staff videotape and use as many boom mikes as they want (if it's not that big a deal, then let them waste their effort! At least it would be a level playing field)

- allow cheerleaders to distract opposing teams with pregame stretching (has nothing to do with Spygate, but the NFL did ban it this year. Might as well give the teams with cheerleaders an advantage over those that don't. I'm sure it's no big deal)

I would not allow:

- cameras or listening equipment in locker rooms or coaches' areas

- interference with the operation of headsets

Discuss.

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This is not about them cheating.

This is about Belichick arrogantly ignoring the NFL memo that told him to stop.

He chose to ignore that and now he is paying for it.

Belichick brought this on his own shoulders, the media is just reacting to the story.

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That's a pretty outlandish statement. Comparing murder and watching people practice is completely different. People are just trying to vilify the Pats for being good this year and the past few years. Besides the Patriots already penalized. They paid a huge fine and had a 1st rounder taken away which will hurt them.

Had the Giants lost to them on Sunday would you still be feeling the same way? Knowing they cheated in the past? Wouldn't you be questioning if they played fair ? Please don't say you wouldn't. It is human nature to question given the evidence.

Tom Terffic sure didn't seem like the same confident, relaxed QB in that game Sunday. His first SB loss of his career. Yes, your defense pressured him constantly.Still you have to wonder if it was only because of that pressure.Or if it was also because he didn't know beforehand what defensive scheme was coming?

They will forever have a black mark against their success. Personally, I would prefer never to have won, then to be thought of as a cheater.

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I agree it's more about integrity. As are most decisions people make and then get fired or punished at work. Belichoke and his organization were just the only ones DUMB enough to get caught. Now they must pay the consequences for being DUMB. To do what they did against a hated rival was just plain DUMB, DUMB, DUMB. To think your hated rival won't snitch on you is just DUMB and arrogant.

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The thing is, if its against the rules, its against the rules. This stuff saying everybody does it just doesn't fly. I'm sure a lot of teams have done it and still do.

But if one team in the entire NFL doesn't do it, its wrong.

The league needs to look at this and clearly establish whats against the rules and whats not instead of trying to justify it with lame excuses.

You can sit here all day and ramble on how everybody does this, and I have no doubt its been done by other teams and probably still is. But the Patriots were the ones caught, and you have to decide either its against the rules or it isn't.

The PATS was wrong for doing it after the memmo was sent out. Before that its fair game.

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God, why are people listening to media tools fishing for stories instead of Coaches like Vermeil and Madden who have both said THE SAME EXACT THING.

I haven't heard ONE coach analyst come out and rip the Patriots for Spygate.

America is SO NAIVE to believe this incident is limited to the Patriots.

heck, Matt Walsh was hired by PETE CARROL in 1998! Yet nobody talks about that...

I guess Belichick's name is just easier to modify into some sort of cheating pun...clever...

Uh do the Names Mike Holmgren or Don Shula work for you?

Listen up guys... Here's your analogy. If you set up a Videotape and taped your neighbors keyless entry code to his Mercedes and then you entered the Mercedes to simply change his "Satellite Navigation" Settings... it does not matter that you did not steal his car...

You entered the Vehicle unlawfully and therefore you may be subject to a CRIMINAL Penalty.

And you don't have a right to just blow it off as a LEAGUE Matter...

Does anybody truly think that the Titles will be stripped? not really but they must pay MUCH MUCH MORE severely than this nonsense.

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Oh and the Patriots are welcome to bring their substantiating Evidence that Other teams have done this nonsense to the HEARINGS.

We welcome any and all INPUT. Enough said.

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Football coaches get it. 120 lb. fantasy football dorks don't. This is a non-issue.

They shouldn't have recorded anything, but it's a minor infraction among real football people.

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I've GOT news for you guys... this is LIMITED to the Patriots. And you are welcome to bring evidence to the Contrary to defend yourself.

You're like the little kid that Stole 20 bucks who when caught says but my brother Jimmy took 5 of it... ROFL

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Football coaches get it. 120 lb. fantasy football dorks don't. This is a non-issue.

They shouldn't have recorded anything, but it's a minor infraction among real football people.

YOu want to know who gets IT? any former player at a pee wee, high school or college level and ANY former coach.

PEE WEE FOOTBALL PLAYERS GET IT... Go Ahead and ask a 3rd grader if it's cheating to steal the other teams plays and know what play is coming prior to the snap?

That's who GETS IT... This is a HUGE issue and you will find out over time ... So try your Sleeveless T shirt , hard guy with a girl nonsense elsewhere.

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Football coaches get it. 120 lb. fantasy football dorks don't. This is a non-issue.

They shouldn't have recorded anything, but it's a minor infraction among real football people.

Eh genius the "infraction" is the recording because in a Game OF SPORT it's perfectly ok to use your wits to try and GUESS what the Opponent may or may not do.

It's not ok to institute a concerted effort to USE ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE to develop a database which allows you to artificially infiltrate and know the plays of the opposing team.

What part isn't sinking into your head?

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So you're saying Vermeil doesn't know what it's like in the NFL...you do?

:roll:

I think you should sit Vermeil down and explain to him what a travesty this was, since he clearly doesn't understand what a serious issue this is after coaching pro Football over the course of 4 decades.

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Uh do the Names Mike Holmgren or Don Shula work for you?

Listen up guys... Here's your analogy. If you set up a Videotape and taped your neighbors keyless entry code to his Mercedes and then you entered the Mercedes to simply change his "Satellite Navigation" Settings... it does not matter that you did not steal his car...

You entered the Vehicle unlawfully and therefore you may be subject to a CRIMINAL Penalty.

And you don't have a right to just blow it off as a LEAGUE Matter...

Does anybody truly think that the Titles will be stripped? not really but they must pay MUCH MUCH MORE severely than this nonsense.

So now we are equating illegal entry, a FEDERAL LAW, to a rule that was broken?

I better watch out then. I cheated in a card game when I was younger and I dont want to get 5 to 10 for my crimes!

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And if IT GOES ON ALL the time and DOES not give the Team Attempting to do it a "COMPETITIVE Advantage"...

The all encompassing question LOOMS, " Well Mr Belicheck if you didn't feel that it would give you any type of COMPETITIVE Advantage, Why did you disguise people as someone they are not in an attempt to surrepticiously Record Private information? There would have been no reason to do such a silly thing so it behooves me to ask the question WHY? Were you fascinated with Spy Novels or something? Why would you do such a thing?"

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So now we are equating illegal entry, a FEDERAL LAW, to a rule that was broken?

I better watch out then. I cheated in a card game when I was younger and I dont want to get 5 to 10 for my crimes!

Your "CARD" game does not charge 10 million bucks and up for 10 second commercials.. or whatever the figure is. And you don't sell Luxury boxes and get Tax breaks and Public funding for the ARENA in which to hold your CARD game... CHAMP.

In other words... NFL Franchises and their leaders are held to a higher standard than the nickel and dime poker game... because THAT'S the way it works.

Just like you can go into a court and say YOUR HONOR YOUR HONOR I swear I didn't Enter that Car .. or I swear I never parked there.. and your penalty for Fibbing would be just a BIT less severe than an Attorney admitted to the Bar going into court and committing tax fraud and lying about it.

Starting to warm up to the concept yet?

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So now we are equating illegal entry, a FEDERAL LAW, to a rule that was broken?

I better watch out then. I cheated in a card game when I was younger and I dont want to get 5 to 10 for my crimes!

Actually Chief .. if you want to get "technical" if it is proven that the Patriots sent spies into private practices and facilities .. or into areas they are not permitted access and taped the activities "Either Video Or Sound"... there may indeed be a chargeable criminal offense.

The FBI themselves does not a have a right to wiretap your phone without a warrant or hadn't you figured out yet that you live in the United States under the guarantees of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

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If YOU DON"T feel it's illegal do the following...

Go into your neighbor's telephone box and hook up a device to listen to his phone calls and then place a Video camera in HIS bushes and record his activities over the Next 48 hours...

Then call the police and tell them what you have done.

CASE CLOSED.

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