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GorillaSam

D Vermeil is ON THE MONEY!

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Than why destroy the evidence?

That's the question on everyone's mind.

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That's good in theory but a defense can easily stop an offense if they know what is coming. That's all I'm saying. I mean if it's true about taping the Rams walkthrough while they ran new never before seen plays they were going to call in the red zone during the Super Bowl how is that not a big deal? I sure as hell know that everyone doesn't do that.

I think Rams fans have a right to feel cheated. If more comes out then there are a whole lot of teams that should feel cheated.

But the thing it comes back to is the offense executing. There are very few different formations teams actually run. It's unlikely an offense will run something in the Super Bowl they haven't run all season and if a team appears to have a bead on what you're doing, it's very easy to bait them.

All of offense is based on doing different things from the exact same looks so the defense has difficulty with your tendencies.

Either way, we're still in speculation mode as this guy hasn't produced the tape he claims he has and he waited so long to bring it up.

On that subject, Jimmy Johnson essentially said you're dying to give away information if you reveal a thing during the walkthrough. He said every coach in football know teams are watching their every move (trying to gain an advantage) and he never gave a thing away in a walkthough.

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But the thing it comes back to is the offense executing. There are very few different formations teams actually run. It's unlikely an offense will run something in the Super Bowl they haven't run all season and if a team appears to have a bead on what you're doing, it's very easy to bait them.

All of offense is based on doing different things from the exact same looks so the defense has difficulty with your tendencies.

Either way, we're still in speculation mode as this guy hasn't produced the tape he claims he has and he waited so long to bring it up.

On that subject, Jimmy Johnson essentially said you're dying to give away information if you reveal a thing during the walkthrough. He said every coach in football know teams are watching their every move (trying to gain an advantage) and he never gave a thing away in a walkthough.

The Patriots seems to be way more organized in their cheating. I mean with videos of signals/new plays/packages/new packages can really turn a game. I mean it only takes one play. It bothers me that we had to put up with this arrogant team if they were cheating. This isn't your normal "Oh, I saw that signal earlier, I think it is a QB draw" cheating. This is highly evolved cheating.

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That's good in theory but a defense can easily stop an offense if they know what is coming. That's all I'm saying. I mean if it's true about taping the Rams walkthrough while they ran new never before seen plays they were going to call in the red zone during the Super Bowl how is that not a big deal? I sure as hell know that everyone doesn't do that.

I think Rams fans have a right to feel cheated. If more comes out then there are a whole lot of teams that should feel cheated.

How could they have created and ran new plays in that Super Bowl? They only had one week to prepare for the Super Bowl that year.

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How could they have created and ran new plays in that Super Bowl? They only had one week to prepare for the Super Bowl that year.

There was an article that said the Rams had a few new redzone plays designed for the Super Bowl.

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I'm not trying to attack you. I'm seriously wondering if you can possibly be for real...either a clone of some sort fishing in all these threads or a guy who really doesn't get it.

Dude Ranch I'm so for real that if there were a big enough contingent who really wanted it... I'd make a personal appearance.

Here's what I want but Arlen's going to take care of this for us.

I want Eric Mangini DEPOSED Under Oath... then I will decide where this issue goes from there.

Also the NFL Owners I believe could through their by laws in some ways "LEGISLATE" this problem away... in the form of some sort of institutional pardon or declaration.

Im' not really sure about the specifics b/c its a very cloudy issue legally.

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So if a group of people commit murder . One of them gets caught. Is it alright to use the excuse everyone else is doing it ?

No, it's more like, "Hey, I banged yourwife/gf/daughter because everyone's doing it."

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But the thing it comes back to is the offense executing. There are very few different formations teams actually run. It's unlikely an offense will run something in the Super Bowl they haven't run all season and if a team appears to have a bead on what you're doing, it's very easy to bait them.

All of offense is based on doing different things from the exact same looks so the defense has difficulty with your tendencies.

Either way, we're still in speculation mode as this guy hasn't produced the tape he claims he has and he waited so long to bring it up.

On that subject, Jimmy Johnson essentially said you're dying to give away information if you reveal a thing during the walkthrough. He said every coach in football know teams are watching their every move (trying to gain an advantage) and he never gave a thing away in a walkthough.

Well You do RECALL that after Jimmy Johnson Left the University of Miami... eh what happened eventually to the program...

So maybe your best role model for this sort of thing is NOT Jimmy Johnson.

My best bet.. this will die down .. but I also think Mangini will be deposed and the public will know the truth.

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Seriously guys ... DO this if it's NO BIG DEAL.

GO tap your neighbors phone... record his phone calls and make tapes of it....

Then put a Video Camera in his bushes and record his comings and goings and make notes of his PIN numbers, his Keyless entry codes..

And then call the FBI or your local police department and hand over what you have.

Starting to COMPREHEND? Lol

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People are giving the story the wrong twist. If they want to succeed in thsi fight, it can't be about blemishing the pats wins, it has to be solely about blackening the name of Billichik and trying to get him out of the world of football.

The fact is that it's incredibly doubtful that the videotape helped at all against the rams:

1 - that portion of the practice was only about the rams redzone plays

2 - the pats defense kept them out of the redzone until the fourth quarter

3 - the rams had, at least I recall from an article, 2 redzone trips and came away with 10 points.

4 - whatever the pats got on the redzone plays didn't seem to help when the rams got down there

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Marv Levy, who coached the Buffalo Bills to four consecutive Super Bowl appearances, was quoted in Time Magazine on Spygate:

"I saw one or two other former coaches say, Oh, everybody does it. Baloney. I didn't do it, and I know many others who didn't do that type of thing ... It will diminish the impact of an accomplishment like going undefeated. "

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I've got an even Better suggestion...

Go and do 4 years of PREP school... Get a 3.9-4.0... then go and attend Harvard or Yale.. and in your 3rd year... set up a covert video recording device in your Physics teachers office and then SELL the contents of the video tape to your fellow students and see what happens when this information is brought before the University Dean of Student Affairs.

ROFL and in THAT situation .. YOU ARE PAYING THEM! <g>

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Marv Levy, who coached the Buffalo Bills to four consecutive Super Bowl appearances, was quoted in Time Magazine on Spygate:

There you go. All of this "It's not big deal" and "Everyone does it" crap is coming from people who already have a ring. Of course they don't feel cheated if they have their title.

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People are giving the story the wrong twist. If they want to succeed in thsi fight, it can't be about blemishing the pats wins, it has to be solely about blackening the name of Billichik and trying to get him out of the world of football.

The fact is that it's incredibly doubtful that the videotape helped at all against the rams:

1 - that portion of the practice was only about the rams redzone plays

2 - the pats defense kept them out of the redzone until the fourth quarter

3 - the rams had, at least I recall from an article, 2 redzone trips and came away with 10 points.

4 - whatever the pats got on the redzone plays didn't seem to help when the rams got down there

Just because you know whats coming doesn't mean you can stop it every single time. But it sure helps to know what plays they are going to run.

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Just because you know whats coming doesn't mean you can stop it every single time. But it sure helps to know what plays they are going to run.

It doesn't matter whether or not you can calculate the RESULTS... If they did it... It destroys the INTEGRITY Of the Game and if the ONLY way you can become a success in this country is to CHEAT...

Then you are not a success at all. I think the Ken Lay's and the Arthur Andersen executives of the world can attest to that.

If you have CHEATED your way to the top... you may be able to keep some of the material things you've acquired but there will always be a very severe price to pay.

And it's got ZERO to do with Marv Levy not having a Ring.. The Man was Ivy League educated and wouldn't CHEAT if you promised him and his family eternal Life and wealth.

You can not CHEAT your way to success.. You can have some minor accomplishments and rest them on the backs of others but sooner or later the ENRON story comes out ..

If the Patriots didn't benefit from this cheating or did not know about it... then let them testify to such things.

If it didn't happen, then let them defend their honor .. but last I checked it DID HAPPEN... the NFL Did Sanction them and they Snubbed Every single one of you .. all season long.

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It doesn't matter whether or not you can calculate the RESULTS... If they did it... It destroys the INTEGRITY Of the Game and if the ONLY way you can become a success in this country is to CHEAT...

Then you are not a success at all. I think the Ken Lay's and the Arthur Andersen executives of the world can attest to that.

If you have CHEATED your way to the top... you may be able to keep some of the material things you've acquired but there will always be a very severe price to pay.

And it's got ZERO to do with Marv Levy not having a Ring.. The Man was Ivy League educated and wouldn't CHEAT if you promised him and his family eternal Life and wealth.

You can not CHEAT your way to success.. You can have some minor accomplishments and rest them on the backs of others but sooner or later the ENRON story comes out ..

If the Patriots didn't benefit from this cheating or did not know about it... then let them testify to such things.

If it didn't happen, then let them defend their honor .. but last I checked it DID HAPPEN... the NFL Did Sanction them and they Snubbed Every single one of you .. all season long.

I agree 100%. The everyone does it excuse just doesn't cut it.

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People are giving the story the wrong twist. If they want to succeed in thsi fight, it can't be about blemishing the pats wins, it has to be solely about blackening the name of Billichik and trying to get him out of the world of football.

The fact is that it's incredibly doubtful that the videotape helped at all against the rams:

1 - that portion of the practice was only about the rams redzone plays

2 - the pats defense kept them out of the redzone until the fourth quarter

3 - the rams had, at least I recall from an article, 2 redzone trips and came away with 10 points.

4 - whatever the pats got on the redzone plays didn't seem to help when the rams got down there

Ok, and let's say that one of the plays in the red zone the Patriots knew and it prevented a TD and forced a fieldgoal instead. Not knowing that play would have resulted in a 21-20 Rams victory. Knowing just one play is in fact that big.

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Ok, and let's say that one of the plays in the red zone the Patriots knew and it prevented a TD and forced a fieldgoal instead. Not knowing that play would have resulted in a 21-20 Rams victory. Knowing just one play is in fact that big.

This is not a D question, but have you ever participated in a walkthrough?

I honestly don't know how you can learn anything from watching one. You can't see the blocking schemes, you can't see the routes, etc.

Even if the Patriots taped it (and I'm not sure they did yet), I don't think they could really learn anything from a walkthrough.

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St. Louis had seven plays inside the Patriots' 30-yard line in the final quarter. At one point, New England stopped the Rams on four successive plays inside the 3-yard line. A holding penalty gave the Rams another play, and, after a timeout, they scored on a quarterback sneak by Warner -- a play that had not been part of Saturday's walk-through but was called by Martz on the sideline.

"It was really just us having some troubles putting the ball in the end zone," Warner says. "We stuck this play in because we had success with it before."

link http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3227592

im almost sure they cheated their way to 3 super bowls and to the tool that things it mades no difference then why waste the time doing it? thats like wasting your time programming information of a subject into your calculator for a test when yuor a 4.0 student and wont even use it or if you made a cheatsheet to keep out during a test. why take the risk? there had to be some advantage to doing it.

coaches dont see like complete idiots or like to waste time video taping and going through it for no reason.

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This is not a D question, but have you ever participated in a walkthrough?

I honestly don't know how you can learn anything from watching one. You can't see the blocking schemes, you can't see the routes, etc.

Even if the Patriots taped it (and I'm not sure they did yet), I don't think they could really learn anything from a walkthrough.

Isn't a walkthrough just running plays without pads and gear. Why wouldn't the routes be seen?

Definition of a walkthrough: a non-contact, no-pads practice at reduced speed in which a team goes through its plays.

How would this not reveal WR routes. Knowing WR routes is huge. If you know that you can alter the course of the game.

Now that leads me to ask the question "Have you ever participated in a walkthrough?

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Isn't a walkthrough just running plays without pads and gear. Why wouldn't the routes be seen?

Definition of a walkthrough: a non-contact, no-pads practice at reduced speed in which a team goes through its plays.

How would this not reveal WR routes. Knowing WR routes is huge. If you know that you can alter the course of the game.

Now that leads me to ask the question "Have you ever participated in a walkthrough?

Yes, I have.

A walkthrough in my experience involves a pace just a hair faster than literally walking. You wouldn't even jog.

There usually isn't even a ball...routes aren't actually run (a 10 yard out becomes a 1 yard out at 1/4 speed if that).

Maybe they run different kinds of walkthroughs, but those are the ones I'm familiar with. It's more about giving players one last chance to do some mental reps and ask a question to the coach if they are unsure of a responsibility, but I don't know how you could look at a walkthrough and gain much as a defense.

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Yes, I have.

A walkthrough in my experience involves a pace just a hair faster than literally walking. You wouldn't even jog.

There usually isn't even a ball...routes aren't actually run (a 10 yard out becomes a 1 yard out at 1/4 speed if that).

Maybe they run different kinds of walkthroughs, but those are the ones I'm familiar with. It's more about giving players one last chance to do some mental reps and ask a question to the coach if they are unsure of a responsibility, but I don't know how you could look at a walkthrough and gain much as a defense.

I'm sure walkthroughs in the NFL are just a little more than that....lol. They are about to play in the Super Bowl. If nothing can be gained then the Patriots wouldn't have recorded it. Of course something can be gained.

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Football coaches get it. 120 lb. fantasy football dorks don't. This is a non-issue.

I'm 308 pounds thank you very much.

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I'm sure walkthroughs in the NFL are just a little more than that....lol. They are about to play in the Super Bowl. If nothing can be gained then the Patriots wouldn't have recorded it. Of course something can be gained.

It's possible. Have you ever seen an NFL walkthrough? I've seen high school walkthrough and college walkthroughs...they were both roughly the same. Maybe the pros are different, but I'm not sure they are. Either way, it seems like you're making assumptions here and not basing your opinion on any fact or experience. That's not a slam or anything, but just a general rush to judgement I'm seeing from some people on this issue.

People are saying "OMG! They taped a walk through! They knew the plays!" without ever seeing a walkthrough or really knowing what one is, on top of the fact that the tape still doesn;t exist and the person claiming he has it hardly seems credible.

As far as what can or cannot be gained, this is about an attempt to not leave a single stone unturned by the Patriots. It's the way they operate in every facet of the game.

If they even did it, I'm saying

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