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cowboy_ron

Who is the most elusive QB in the NFL today?

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Tonyo... The problem with your stats is it doesn't take into account the difference in plays, nor the difference in OL play.

Brees very, VERY rarely throws deep balls. He is really a short, precision passer. He's not going to get sacked a lot, simply because of how many quick passes he throws.

Manning is like that to a lesser extent. He also has had the best pass blocking line in the NFL most of his career.

McNabb mean while is a long ball machine. It's pretty normal for the guy to launch the ball 50 yards down field.

If you put those 3 guys in the exact same situation, and ask them to elude defenders as long as possible, McNabb would make them look pathetic by comparison.

Are you implying with your first sentence that over the last three years, the Eagles have had an inferior OL to many other teams in the league, including the Colts? Just checking.

You're absolutely right that systems do come into play, but remember that over a quarter of McNabb's completitions went to ne player last year, Brian Westbrook. I'd be hard pressed to find many other teams that have their running back catching over 25% of the pases from their QB.

Ovreall though, the problem with using stats in football as compared to baseball and to a lesser extent basketball, is there are so many more variables. That's why using an asinine stat like QB rating to justify who is a better QB is meaningless.

Donovan is certainly the most athletic of the three, but the way he's been on the field, I don't know if its fair to say that he's the most elusive. If yo'ur esaying that htey have to run around the backfield like McNabb did a couple of years ago, then no, the other plays couldn't do it. But Brees and Manning aren't as quick to pull the ball down and don't get the deer in headlights look as often as Donovan.

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Are you implying with your first sentence that over the last three years, the Eagles have had an inferior OL to many other teams in the league, including the Colts? Just checking.

You're absolutely right that systems do come into play, but remember that over a quarter of McNabb's completitions went to ne player last year, Brian Westbrook. I'd be hard pressed to find many other teams that have their running back catching over 25% of the pases from their QB.

Ovreall though, the problem with using stats in football as compared to baseball and to a lesser extent basketball, is there are so many more variables. That's why using an asinine stat like QB rating to justify who is a better QB is meaningless.

Donovan is certainly the most athletic of the three, but the way he's been on the field, I don't know if its fair to say that he's the most elusive. If yo'ur esaying that htey have to run around the backfield like McNabb did a couple of years ago, then no, the other plays couldn't do it. But Brees and Manning aren't as quick to pull the ball down and don't get the deer in headlights look as often as Donovan.

You need to take into account who these guys are throwing too. Peyton doesn't get sacked because his receivers get seperation, same with Romo and T.O. Mcnabb has to hold the ball longer because he's always throwing to clown receivers. That being said Vick is the most elusive. Oh wait, he got caught didn't he??

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Have you seen Brady move? He steps up and left and right to avoid the rush all the time. Better than anybody.

You are right. but its probably a little easier because he usually knows where the blitz is coming from :P

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Have you seen Brady move? He steps up and left and right to avoid the rush all the time. Better than anybody.

There was a time that you could watch him and just see that he knew what was coming at him.

:ph34r:

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You are right. but its probably a little easier because he usually knows where the blitz is coming from :P

Your reference to spygate is actually going to work against you. He does usually know where the biltz is coming from. Just like Peyton Manning usually knows, and even Eli knows. It's amazing what film study accomplishes. I watch the Giants play week after week and at the end of every season I know what they are going to do more then half the time.

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Just strait not getting sacked I'd say P. Manning and Brady.

Brady and P. Manning get the ball out quick and are consistently able to process the defenses schemes. P. Manning has had recievers who can get open too. Brady always seems to know where to go with the ball, or where not to be in the pocket when he is waitng for an opening.

If your talking just run around to extend the play and hope someone gets open, McNabb may be because he has made a career of extending plays for inferior WR's to get open.

McNabb on a bum knee can run circles around P. Manning and Brady because one moves like a robot and the other runs like Forrest Gump.

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Just strait not getting sacked I'd say P. Manning and Brady.

Brady and P. Manning get the ball out quick and are consistently able to process the defenses schemes. P. Manning has had recievers who can get open too. Brady always seems to know where to go with the ball, or where not to be in the pocket when he is waitng for an opening.

If your talking just run around to extend the play and hope someone gets open, McNabb may be because he has made a career of extending plays for inferior WR's to get open.

McNabb on a bum knee can run circles around P. Manning and Brady because one moves like a robot and the other runs like Forrest Gump.

One thing Forrest Gump could do was run. That boy was a running fool.

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Peyton got sacked 21 times in '07 despite injuries to his OL and receiving core.

Please do not compare Peyton's pocket awareness to McNabb.

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come on people most elusive qb in the nfl today is micheal vick yes hes still in the nfl hes just on vacation right now he will be back in 09.

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This was meant to be a Romo thread from the start. Next.

Then I guess Romo should have been the correct answer. Too bad it wasn't.

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You need to take into account who these guys are throwing too. Peyton doesn't get sacked because his receivers get seperation, same with Romo and T.O. Mcnabb has to hold the ball longer because he's always throwing to clown receivers. That being said Vick is the most elusive. Oh wait, he got caught didn't he??

That's BS. His sack avg/game in '04 was 2.1, in '05 it was 2.1 and in '06 it was 2.1. In '04 and '05 he had TO, so that pretty much throws out the "it was the WR's fault" answer.

But for his career, only in 2000, 2003, and 2007 was he at over 3 sacks/game. I think it's reasonable to assume his injury had something to do with it last year though.

He takes a lot of sacks (for a "mobile" QB), not because he get the "deer in the headlights" look, or because his WR's suck, but because he would rather take a sack than risk an INT.

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Peyton got sacked 21 times in '07 despite injuries to his OL and receiving core.

Please do not compare Peyton's pocket awareness to McNabb.

I dont think anyone had.......

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Are you implying with your first sentence that over the last three years, the Eagles have had an inferior OL to many other teams in the league, including the Colts? Just checking.

You're absolutely right that systems do come into play, but remember that over a quarter of McNabb's completitions went to ne player last year, Brian Westbrook. I'd be hard pressed to find many other teams that have their running back catching over 25% of the pases from their QB.

Ovreall though, the problem with using stats in football as compared to baseball and to a lesser extent basketball, is there are so many more variables. That's why using an asinine stat like QB rating to justify who is a better QB is meaningless.

Donovan is certainly the most athletic of the three, but the way he's been on the field, I don't know if its fair to say that he's the most elusive. If yo'ur esaying that htey have to run around the backfield like McNabb did a couple of years ago, then no, the other plays couldn't do it. But Brees and Manning aren't as quick to pull the ball down and don't get the deer in headlights look as often as Donovan.

Compare the recievers of McNabb to Eli, Peyton, Brady and Romo.

I belive McNabb can get the same passing numbers as Peyton with his recievers and o-line, but Peyton still read defenses 10x better then everyone except Brady.

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Guys like McNabb will always take more sacks simply because their mentality is to extend the play. When you run around in the backfield waiting for people to break free, you are going to get sacked from behind. The defense in the NFL is just too athletic.

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Compare the recievers of McNabb to Eli, Peyton, Brady and Romo.

I belive McNabb can get the same passing numbers as Peyton with his recievers and o-line, but Peyton still read defenses 10x better then everyone except Brady.

What about Brees? His WR corp is quite similar to the Eagles.

McNabb may has one of the two best safety valves in the game in Westbrook, as witnessed by the high percentage of passes Westy had from him last year.

OL play is more important than who you have to throw to, and we've heard around here for years that the Eagles have one of the top 3-5 OLs in the game, correct?

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That's BS. His sack avg/game in '04 was 2.1, in '05 it was 2.1 and in '06 it was 2.1. In '04 and '05 he had TO, so that pretty much throws out the "it was the WR's fault" answer.

But for his career, only in 2000, 2003, and 2007 was he at over 3 sacks/game. I think it's reasonable to assume his injury had something to do with it last year though.

He takes a lot of sacks (for a "mobile" QB), not because he get the "deer in the headlights" look, or because his WR's suck, but because he would rather take a sack than risk an INT.

Another this is in running QBs generally take more sacks then drop back passers. This is because they run around, trying to make a play and get caught from behind, as to just throwing the ball away.

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Brees is probably the most elusive Qb in the NFL right now. Over his last 1200 attempts, he's only been sacked 34 times.

Peyton has been sacked 35 times over his last ~1,050 attempts.

Over McNabb's last ~1100 attempts, he's been sacked 84 times.

McNabb is a better pure runner than either of them but he's not more elusive.

Eh, it's kind of hard to say, because when he was last 100 % he was pretty elusive. Was I the only one who saw the 14 second play?

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At avoiding sacks? When you see a blitze thet seems almost insurmountable to avoid?

Vince Young?

Tony Romo?

Eli Manning?

or???

Feel free to throw it out there.

you forgot byron leftwich

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What about Brees? His WR corp is quite similar to the Eagles.

McNabb may has one of the two best safety valves in the game in Westbrook, as witnessed by the high percentage of passes Westy had from him last year.

OL play is more important than who you have to throw to, and we've heard around here for years that the Eagles have one of the top 3-5 OLs in the game, correct?

We had one of the best in 2006, not in 2007.

I hope our o-line can bounce back to its 2006 form.

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Are you implying with your first sentence that over the last three years, the Eagles have had an inferior OL to many other teams in the league, including the Colts? Just checking.

You're absolutely right that systems do come into play, but remember that over a quarter of McNabb's completitions went to ne player last year, Brian Westbrook. I'd be hard pressed to find many other teams that have their running back catching over 25% of the pases from their QB.

Ovreall though, the problem with using stats in football as compared to baseball and to a lesser extent basketball, is there are so many more variables. That's why using an asinine stat like QB rating to justify who is a better QB is meaningless.

Donovan is certainly the most athletic of the three, but the way he's been on the field, I don't know if its fair to say that he's the most elusive. If yo'ur esaying that htey have to run around the backfield like McNabb did a couple of years ago, then no, the other plays couldn't do it. But Brees and Manning aren't as quick to pull the ball down and don't get the deer in headlights look as often as Donovan.

As far as pass blocking goes, I'd say that the Colts specifically have been better then the Eagles over the course of both players careers.

Agree with you 100% on using stats in the NFL. Stats are one part of a tool to use to judge a player.

Brees and Manning aren't as quick to pull the ball down because their offense doesn't ask them to sit in the pocket as long, nor do they have the abillity to do so even if they wanted to. They don't have the abillity to pull the ball down, and shrug off tacklers, make a guy miss, then roll out and make a play out of nothing. Just like you won't see a leadoff hitter strike out going for the home run nearly as much as Ryan Howard. Why? Because that 170 pound short stop doesn't have the home run abillity in the first place.

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