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scarletfire1970

Joey Porter says Patriots are cheats!

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Unless the Pats recorded the Eagles signals on one of the multiple times since Belicheat took over that they played before the Super Bowl...

Sure that's possible, but it's likely they would have changed some if not all of their signals from the previous times. Also, they would have been available to use in the first half of the game as well, the half in which they played like ish.

Don't our opinions and beliefs define who we are and what we do?

Sure they do, but that doesn't automatically define a person as good or bad. Just like being a Christian doesn't make someone a good person, nor does being an Atheist make someone bad. Actions define good or bad much more.

Good point. It is the worst, but in my opinion it was not enough as this is in my opinion the worst team infraction that has been proven that I am aware of.

You're entitled to your opinion here. I'm fine with the punishment they got. We likely won't ever agree here.

I've heard most of those guys on NFLN and I don't remember them being so light on the situation. I think they have said that their accomplishments shouldn't be taken away but I don't think they made light of the situation. If you've seen any of that in print I would be interested to see it.

Unfortunately, most of what I've heard is on TV or radio, so no text to provide. Only text I could provide is Jimmy Johnson admitting he used to do this, and that Howard Mudd (former KC assistant, current Indy O-Line coach) was great at stealing signals. But he's a coach, and you already don't accept his word. I can provide a link if you want.

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You know him?

I dont need to personally know him. I have seen how he has conducted himself on and off the field over his career and the guy is just plain ignorant.

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So because I disagree with your position, I'm not a real football fan? :huh:

Thats always one of the best comebacks on these boards. Dont worry about it bro.

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Guest Shepard Wong

Porter is right on this but ultimately it doesn't matter.

It is in the best interest of the NFL and it's business partners, ie the media that carries and covers the games, to minimize the damage that 3 tainted Super Bowls would do to the credibility of the game.

The Pats were warned about this the previous year when they were caught taping the Dolphins. The fact that they continued to tape the signals in the first game of the next season against the Jets despite the warning tells you how important they think the information obtained is these tapes was to there success.

If this was a way to gain some slight, undefined edge, woudl they have ignored a warning from the league and continued to do it? No. They needed it and they knew it.

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Sure that's possible, but it's likely they would have changed some if not all of their signals from the previous times. Also, they would have been available to use in the first half of the game as well, the half in which they played like ish.

I think you might have answered your own question here. If there was new material by JJ that might have been what was effective in the first half. Execution could have also been a fact or in the difference between the halves. I think we have ventured pretty far off into speculation though...

Sure they do, but that doesn't automatically define a person as good or bad. Just like being a Christian doesn't make someone a good person, nor does being an Atheist make someone bad. Actions define good or bad much more.

I think its as good of an identifier as any. There are good people who have done bad things. Your actions are a good indication for people that don't know you but not a true measure. Who's worse someone who kills someone and is repentant (in spirit not as an act) or someone who kills someone and has no remorse? Neither situation is good and this is an obvious exaggeration but who is the better person in that situation? I do think the quality of a person is at the least blend of actions and intentions so yes I would say that someone's stance on topics is a good way to judge them.

You're entitled to your opinion here. I'm fine with the punishment they got. We likely won't ever agree here.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, most of what I've heard is on TV or radio, so no text to provide. Only text I could provide is Jimmy Johnson admitting he used to do this, and that Howard Mudd (former KC assistant, current Indy O-Line coach) was great at stealing signals. But he's a coach, and you already don't accept his word. I can provide a link if you want.

Actually their input is acceptable as I don't consider their comments to be off of the company script. The argument that other people did it too is the only one that holds any water to me. However the league made a big point of telling the teams that this would be stopped and those who didn't would be punished. Just because it was common to do something decades ago I don't think that is enough of an excuse to rationalize the situation away. They knew what they were doing was wrong and that it would give them an advantage.

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It would be interesting to hear Charlie Weis, Romeo Crenel and Mangini talk about their time at New England and answer questions about the cheating policies. Since leaving the Patriots, none of these coaches has had much, if any, success in their new coaching positions. What made them so great in New England, and why are they so mediocre (to put it nicely) now?

The article with Steve Young is the first time I've heard Weis' abilities come into question by the national media. Why not also look at the other coaches; why not vigorously follow up on this?

If they have nothing to hide, then it should be very easy for them to answer some questions.

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I dont need to personally know him. I have seen how he has conducted himself on and off the field over his career and the guy is just plain ignorant.

So have I. Trash talking is part of his game. He and Chad Johnson used to trash talk with each other before every Steelers/Bengals game. Most of it is an act, IMO. At the end of the game you'd see them hanging out and laughing it up.

He did get into a fight with a Browns player (Wiliam Green) before the game and both were tossed out. That was the only on field incident I can recall in his 10 year career that esculated into a fist fight. In fact on the field, Troy Polamalu has gotten more unsportsmanlike penalties than Joey Porter.

As far as off the field activity, the only thing that comes to mind is the fight in Vegas with Levi Jones. I am sure Levi Jones was completely innocent in that exchange. I don't condone violence and Porter was definitely wrong there. I just don't think that necessarily lables him an "ignorant" guy or a "bad" guy.

Neither one of us know the guy but I can tell you he was always great with the fans. Always there to give autographs and pictures during training camp. He was definitely a favorite here in Pittsburgh.

All that said, I don't think any of this matters. Bottom line is Joey is right. The Patriots are a bunch of cheats, particularly Belicheck and the NFL is doing their best to shut this thing up. I am glad at least some of the players care enough to speak out on it.

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I think its as good of an identifier as any. There are good people who have done bad things. Your actions are a good indication for people that don't know you but not a true measure. Who's worse someone who kills someone and is repentant (in spirit not as an act) or someone who kills someone and has no remorse? Neither situation is good and this is an obvious exaggeration but who is the better person in that situation? I do think the quality of a person is at the least blend of actions and intentions so yes I would say that someone's stance on topics is a good way to judge them.

We've talked to death the stuff I've deleted, but I wanted to address this comment. I don't see a great difference between the 2, but I'm also tough on murderers. I don't think it addresses my original point either. A better question would be: Who's worse? A person who THINKS someone else should be killed, or someone who actually does the killing?

The 2nd bolded comment I also have to strongly disagree with. I know next to nothing about you, other than your stance on this issue (which we obviously disagree on), but I've had friends who I disagree with strongly on other things, but I have great respect for them. You and I could possibly agree on a hundred other issues, but you really think my opinion on this defines my whole character?

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So have I. Trash talking is part of his game. He and Chad Johnson used to trash talk with each other before every Steelers/Bengals game. Most of it is an act, IMO. At the end of the game you'd see them hanging out and laughing it up.

He did get into a fight with a Browns player (Wiliam Green) before the game and both were tossed out. That was the only on field incident I can recall in his 10 year career that esculated into a fist fight. In fact on the field, Troy Polamalu has gotten more unsportsmanlike penalties than Joey Porter.

As far as off the field activity, the only thing that comes to mind is the fight in Vegas with Levi Jones. I am sure Levi Jones was completely innocent in that exchange. I don't condone violence and Porter was definitely wrong there. I just don't think that necessarily lables him an "ignorant" guy or a "bad" guy.

Neither one of us know the guy but I can tell you he was always great with the fans. Always there to give autographs and pictures during training camp. He was definitely a favorite here in Pittsburgh.

All that said, I don't think any of this matters. Bottom line is Joey is right. The Patriots are a bunch of cheats, particularly Belicheck and the NFL is doing their best to shut this thing up. I am glad at least some of the players care enough to speak out on it.

I respect what you have to say but that dosent mean i have to agree with you, In my eyes he has proved himself ignorant. Its all good if you dont see him in that light but this is my opinion of him and it wont change. As for the Pats i do agree.

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It's nice to know that at least the players still care about the integrity of the game as they take ish like HGH and nandralone.

Fixed.

Dont kid yourself. Only reason theyre mouthing off is because they havent been caught yet.

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The one thing to keep in mind is that even though the Pats might not get an asterisk in the record books, their reputation is now irrevocably tarnished in the minds of the fans.

Honestly I think Bellicheck deserves a harsher punishment but who knows whats going to happen.

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Maybe, but at least he isn't a grey hoodie wearing cheat !

We'll give you the 2 we stole from you if you give the whole league the 4 you "won" when your whole team was shooting steroids.

BTW, maybe if the Steelers won in week 13 last year when there was no tapes used it would have meant something.

But by getting bicthslapped 31-13 kinda just goes to show that the better team won ..........again.

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We'll give you the 2 we stole from you if you give the whole league the 4 you "won" when your whole team was shooting steroids.

BTW, maybe if the Steelers won in week 13 last year when there was no tapes used it would have meant something.

But by getting bicthslapped 31-13 kinda just goes to show that the better team won ..........again.

First, steriods were not illegal in the 70s. Many players were using throughout the league, not just the Steelers. Secondly, the whole team wasnt using steriods. A few of the olineman were. The linebackers didn't weigh much more than Ben Roethlisberger. Are you going to tell me Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth etc were taking roids? That team won because they were the best team ever in the NFL. They were a true dynasty.

Now the Patriots beat the Steelers during the regular season last year. Congrats. I fail to see what that has to do with anything. Not to mention the fact that after all that all you have left is 18-1. Once again, congrats.

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Personally, I say we convince some terrorists to nuke Gilette field when the cheaters are practicing one day.

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Pete Rose got banned from baseball for gambling, and I think what Bilicheat did was far worse and they really did just get a slap on the wrist for what happened. Losing a first round pick and being fined money is nothing to them, heck we havent had a first round pick in 2 years and we r still contenders.

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that shouldn't be too hard to do since he does play for miami

Yeah, its highly unfortunate...

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This was established months ago. I think everyone just forgot that Joey Porter existed and then he started shouting this in the background during a Jake Long interview to get some attention.

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