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gaitherfan

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While I don't think Curtis and Brown are top flight caliber WR...I would blame McNabb just as much for the lack of success Brown has had. Sorry...in 08, D Mac held onto the ball and continued to have accuracy problems.

Fact is T.O. is so good at getting open and separating, he makes QBs look good. Donovan doesn't have those guys that can do that...but how many WR in the league are as good as T.O.? What Donovan often fails to do is give his WR a chance to make a play.

LOL... Another McNabb held onto the ball comment. Come on guys this is the easy way out. Granted the QB can always do a better job but Reggie Brown has potential to be a very good WR in the league. There is no excuse on how he started last season off.

He saw 3 catchable passes early in that GB game and came away with 1 catch I believe. He saw 6 passes as it seemed aparent to me that McNabb like all of us expected Brown to have a breakout year. Brown saw 6 passes week 1 and caught 1. And to not give up and to further prove IMO that McNabb was making an effort to get the ball to Brown early in games McNabb looked his way 8 times in week 2. Several of those passes were catchable as well. Guy came away with 3 catches on 14 looks in the 1st 2 weeks. You can blame it on McNabb and say he wasn't accurate. And sure several of those passes weren't easy catches..... McNabb was not exactly hitting him in the chest every time but for a number 1 WR ---which we all thought he was at that time---- he touches the ball he needs to catch it.

But in the same first 2 games the guy who everyone says has the best hands on the team Avant saw 9 passes and caught 8. By the time week 4 came I really wanted to see Avant take that number 1 spot. Brown picked it up later in the season but his looks went down and McNabb didn't release it quickly knowing that passes to Brown better be on the mark or he ain't catching it. Don't get it twisted Brown has good hands once he gets going but early in the season when McNabb was trying to establish trust in someone Brown didn't exactly step up. Ultimately, you will continue to see McNabb hold onto the ball because he knows he can't lead Curtis into traffic(which is not a knock on him) and he can't always trust Brown.

If Reggie starts off the season next year like he finished it and LJ Smith comes in and is productive you will see McNabb completion % go up to possibly his best of his career and his sack totals drop and all of you guys who have no clue about whats going on in the game will say McNabb picked up his game. When in fact it will be Reggie Brown that picked his game up and allowed McNabb to feel comfortable getting him the ball in tough situations.

In other words if Reggie is playing to his potential this WR corps is good and is by far the best 5 has ever had. Better then that 04 season as a group. Now I can't predict that type of year statiscally from McNabb but I will predict McNabb will have the best completion percentage of his career if Brown can be consistent.

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to save us time , jakeinromosbutt just put dallas as the best and the rest suck...

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Who in their right mind would consider Reggie Brown a top 15, let alone top 5 WR in the NFC East? The Eagles are the only team in the division where he would actually have a chance at starting. Reggie Brown isn't even the best WR on his own team.

Anybody that watches the NFL,thats who.

Here are some real basic facts.Lets go down team by team and player by player.We will assume some things but take mostly facts and actual production.We will use the top ten WRers from the combined 4 teams and we will also try to use common sense.For example,,while T.Glenn used to be a top WRer in the league,he didn't play last year,he is coming off a major injury and is 35,,I would think since it is possible he may never play again,it is almost certain if he does play he will be a shell of himself and a situational player at best.There are many younger receivers with much less previous production that will completely out perform him this year and obviously years to come.I will list in overall order with my reasons.

#1-T.Owens (cowboys)--nothing needs to be said,I do believe he will start to decline this year

#2-P.Burress(giants)--as many games as he takes off and is invisible,he simply is a TD waiting to happen

#3-S. Moss(redskins)--actually his numbers tell a different story.Only 2 of his 7 seasons have been #1 receivers numbers.His other 5 he averaged--38rec/580yds/22 1st downs and 5 TDs--solid #2 numbers.Mosses numbers over his 7 year career are identical to R.Browns. at 50rec/755yds/35 1st downs and 5 TD's.

#4-K.Curtis(eagles)--if he puts up the numbers he did last year he will blow by Moss and be considered a solid #1,,unlike Moss--as an Eagle fan I would take him over Moss.

#5-R.Brown(eagles)--EVERYTHING he does and his numbers show he is easily the #5 receiver,,and with a jump in his numbers this year and another typical Moss year he will,along with Curtis jump up a slot to #4.REGGIES #'s over 3 years are---50rec/725yds/32 1st downs and 5.5 TD's---the same as Mosses,with many more years to develope.

#6-A.Toomer(giants)--obviously he would be #2 or 3 a few years ago but,,he is 35 and his numbers have basically declined for 4 straight years.Again we are talking about this coming season not 3 years ago

#7-Randle El(redskins)--still think he is one of the most overrated players in the league.Here's a guy that has been in the league for 6 years and is still stuck as an average #3 receiver with OK numbers,but has to many drops and bad route running skills.I (but most fans wouldn't so I will put him here)probably would take a chance with some of the younger kids in the division(Avant,Moss,Smith) before I would continue to hope Randle gets it one day.The one reason I will keep him here is because of his return skills---I KNOW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A WRer.

#8-S.Smith(giants)--I still think its funny that fans thought this guy played great in the regular season-8rec/63yds/0td/4 1st downs.The fact is,with his play in the playoffs I would take him 8th and he could make a massive jump after this season.

#9-J.Avant(eagles)-As with Smith,he showed enough to me that he will produce,,he to me does not have the upside of being a solid #2 like Smith but I can see him being an average #2 or a top #3 receiver

#10-P.Clayton(cowboys)--here is a guy I still can't figure out and I am pretty sure if he doesn't have a massive increase in production he might be gone after this season.Even though he has been in the league for only 4 years he will be 30 and finally this year had 50rec and 600yds.He is playing across from the best receiver in the NFC,maybe the league and thats all he can get.He runs terrible routes,doesn't like going after errant thrown balls and doesn't have great hands,Whats to like about him????????? Dallas can have him.

FOR THE RECORD HERE ARE THE OTHER RECEIVERS IN THE NFC EAST THAT MAY HAVE SOME SORT OF IMPACT.

Redskins==Thrash (34) with 9 rec. last year / M.Kelly,D.Thomas---both rookies

Giants====S.Moss,talented,but after 2 seasons and injuries who knows

Cowboys==S.Hurd,2 years of nothing--They also have a group of nothing and actually besides Owens probably have the worts WRers group in the entire NFC.

Eagles====G.Lewis,who actually would have made the top ten if Randle didn't return punts.I would have had Randle #11.D.Jackson,H.Baskett (who I don't like a little)

If you actually look at the receivers as far as talent,versatility,age,depth and the future it is obvious with the Eagles having CURTIS,BROWN,JACKSON,AVANT and LEWIS they are in the best position followed by the Giants with Burress(31),Toomer(34),Smith and Moss.The Redskins are putting a lot of stock in an oft injured over the last couple of years, 30 year old Moss,an average Randle and 2 rookies.Meanwhile,like I said,if something happens to the 35 year old Owens,Dallas is in trouble because they have nothing after him unless someone out of the blue steps up.

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#6-A.Toomer(giants)--obviously he would be #2 or 3 a few years ago but,,he is 35 and his numbers have basically declined for 4 straight years.Again we are talking about this coming season not 3 years ago

Don't you think that maybe his numbers have declined in the past few years because of the arrival of Burress? He also blew out his knee in '06 and missed most of the season. And incidentally, how can you base your list on what hasn't even happened yet for this upcoming season? Isn't that sort of.....stupid? You're stating all this baloney as fact, rather than opinion, and the fact that you put Brown and even Curtis over a proven vet like Toomer is asinine. He still had close to 800 yards last year behind Burress and made some of the greatest drive sustaining catches of his entire career. But yeah....he's declining, and below Brown and Curtis :rolleyes:

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Don't you think that maybe his numbers have declined in the past few years because of the arrival of Burress? He also blew out his knee in '06 and missed most of the season. And incidentally, how can you base your list on what hasn't even happened yet for this upcoming season? Isn't that sort of.....stupid? You're stating all this baloney as fact, rather than opinion, and the fact that you put Brown and even Curtis over a proven vet like Toomer is asinine. He still had close to 800 yards last year behind Burress and made some of the greatest drive sustaining catches of his entire career. But yeah....he's declining, and below Brown and Curtis :rolleyes:

YOUR reasons for his decline is a major issue----INJURIES AND AGE-----which happens to be the #1 issue for decline in pro athletes.I CLEARLY state that some things will be facts like---Toomer is 35,his numbers have declined and if he didn't have injuries and wasn't so old he would be #2-3.

Some of my OPINIONS would be STUPID if they weren't ASSUMPTIONS like I stated.(another new yorker that can't read and interpret)

Common sense tells me,and anyone else that a 35 year old NFL player who has steadily declined with injuries will more then likely have a less productive season then the previous season.If,which is likely,he has a less productive season then the previous season then we can ASSUME other players with numbers already better (Curtis) or close (Brown) will surpass him this season.This season coming up is what we are talking about,,not 3-4 years ago.Now lets look at a couple of FACTS.

TOOMER---age/35---rec/59---yds/760----tds/3----1st downs/42--------injuries and OBVIOUSLY on the decline

BROWN----age/27---rec/61---yds/780----tds/4----1st downs/40-------NO injuries and OBVIOUSLY on the rise

Will Brown ever be as good as Toomer was in his prime--not likely,but we are talking about this season not 3 years ago.

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You might have some leverage if Toomer was consistently injured, but alas....he hasn't been

He blew out his knee in '06 and came back as strong as ever in '07

He has never been injury prone and still produces rather well for a guy his age, so it is quite 'obvious' that you're wrong about him

Until Brown proves himself year in and year out, doesn't miss a lot of time because of injury, plays for more than 10 years, and still has a huge role on his team, then you can ASSUME all you want, because right now, Brown is OBVIOUSLY not in Toomer's class just yet.

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You might have some leverage if Toomer was consistently injured, but alas....he hasn't been

He blew out his knee in '06 and came back as strong as ever in '07

He has never been injury prone and still produces rather well for a guy his age, so it is quite 'obvious' that you're wrong about him

Until Brown proves himself year in and year out, doesn't miss a lot of time because of injury, plays for more than 10 years, and still has a huge role on his team, then you can ASSUME all you want, because right now, Brown is OBVIOUSLY not in Toomer's class just yet.

I can see I am arguing with a person without an open mind.AGAIN let me TRY to make this really simple for you:

1)I said it would be unlikely that Brown will ever be as good as Toomer was in his prime.Toomer in his prime was probably a top 7 receiver in the NFC,,Brown does not appear to have that talent.

2)As I said,,if Toomer wasn't 35 and getting older,I would put him at @2 or 3.Unfortunately he is getting older and 75 years of history in the NFL tells me his decline over the last few years will continue,,,and we are talking about this year.

3)At NO time did I say he was injury prone

4)Brown has improved each of his 3 years in the league,not regressed.

5)Brown has not missed time due to injuries

6)If you insist (which is correct) that Toomer has played a huge role on his team,, and Brown has the IDENTICAL,or better numbers then Toomer over the last 3 years (that includes his rookie year)then we must assume (correct again)that Brown has played a huge role on his team.

7)Again,,In Toomers prime Brown is NOT in his class,,,,however in the last 3 years he absolutely is,, there numbers are identical,and my belief,,, going on past history,the younger player that has improved each year and is on par with the older player,who is declining, will out perform him.That is not me making that up----that simply is a fact,,especially in football where it is more of a younger sport then the other 3 major sports.

Maybe because your a Giants fan you can't see clear.It is No different then comparing J.Taylor in his prime to J.Rice.At NO time was Taylor in his prime better then Rice in his prime,,,but at the end of Rices' career,, Taylor was in his prime and better.The same is happening at present with M.Harrison and R.Wayne.Harrison in his prime was better then Wayne is in his prime,,but due to age and injuries,Wayne right now is more then likely the better player.

Hopefully you don't take this as I am trying to put Brown,,or Toomer for that matter in the same class as Rice or Harrison.

NUMBERS OVER THE LAST 3 YEARS:

Toomer=========151rec/1804yds/17tds/101 1st downs

Brown==========150rec/2167yds/16tds/96 1st downs

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Boss over Smith is laughable.

What is laughable about it? One guy is young and showed promise the other guy is average to below average and overpaid.

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3)At NO time did I say he was injury prone

You didn't say it, you implied it, or at least thats how I read it

TOOMER---age/35---rec/59---yds/760----tds/3----1st downs/42--------injuries and OBVIOUSLY on the decline

How many #2 WR's who are behind True #1's do you see having over 1k yards in a season, especially with a very good running game, a top 5(?)TE and a couple of other legit receiving threats on the roster as well?

Answer: Not a whole lot of them at all

Toomer is getting older, but his decline has been extremely minimal, which keeps him ahead of Brown just from the standpoint of proving himself year in and year out.

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What is laughable about it? One guy is young and showed promise the other guy is average to below average and overpaid.

Should we put Celek,who had better numbers then Boss ahead of Smith also ?????????You people crack me up.

Smith is the #4 TE in the NFC and a top 10 TE in the NFL.

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You didn't say it, you implied it, or at least thats how I read it

How many #2 WR's who are behind True #1's do you see having over 1k yards in a season, especially with a very good running game, a top 5(?)TE and a couple of other legit receiving threats on the roster as well?

Answer: Not a whole lot of them at all

Toomer is getting older, but his decline has been extremely minimal, which keeps him ahead of Brown just from the standpoint of proving himself year in and year out.

Real simple,FOR THIS COMING SEASON,,you can take Toomer,I will take Brown.Nice discussion though.

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Anybody that watches the NFL,thats who.

Here are some real basic facts.Lets go down team by team and player by player.We will assume some things but take mostly facts and actual production.We will use the top ten WRers from the combined 4 teams and we will also try to use common sense.For example,,while T.Glenn used to be a top WRer in the league,he didn't play last year,he is coming off a major injury and is 35,,I would think since it is possible he may never play again,it is almost certain if he does play he will be a shell of himself and a situational player at best.There are many younger receivers with much less previous production that will completely out perform him this year and obviously years to come.I will list in overall order with my reasons.

#1-T.Owens (cowboys)--nothing needs to be said,I do believe he will start to decline this year

#2-P.Burress(giants)--as many games as he takes off and is invisible,he simply is a TD waiting to happen

#3-S. Moss(redskins)--actually his numbers tell a different story.Only 2 of his 7 seasons have been #1 receivers numbers.His other 5 he averaged--38rec/580yds/22 1st downs and 5 TDs--solid #2 numbers.Mosses numbers over his 7 year career are identical to R.Browns. at 50rec/755yds/35 1st downs and 5 TD's.

#4-K.Curtis(eagles)--if he puts up the numbers he did last year he will blow by Moss and be considered a solid #1,,unlike Moss--as an Eagle fan I would take him over Moss.

#5-R.Brown(eagles)--EVERYTHING he does and his numbers show he is easily the #5 receiver,,and with a jump in his numbers this year and another typical Moss year he will,along with Curtis jump up a slot to #4.REGGIES #'s over 3 years are---50rec/725yds/32 1st downs and 5.5 TD's---the same as Mosses,with many more years to develope.

#6-A.Toomer(giants)--obviously he would be #2 or 3 a few years ago but,,he is 35 and his numbers have basically declined for 4 straight years.Again we are talking about this coming season not 3 years ago

#7-Randle El(redskins)--still think he is one of the most overrated players in the league.Here's a guy that has been in the league for 6 years and is still stuck as an average #3 receiver with OK numbers,but has to many drops and bad route running skills.I (but most fans wouldn't so I will put him here)probably would take a chance with some of the younger kids in the division(Avant,Moss,Smith) before I would continue to hope Randle gets it one day.The one reason I will keep him here is because of his return skills---I KNOW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING A WRer.

#8-S.Smith(giants)--I still think its funny that fans thought this guy played great in the regular season-8rec/63yds/0td/4 1st downs.The fact is,with his play in the playoffs I would take him 8th and he could make a massive jump after this season.

#9-J.Avant(eagles)-As with Smith,he showed enough to me that he will produce,,he to me does not have the upside of being a solid #2 like Smith but I can see him being an average #2 or a top #3 receiver

#10-P.Clayton(cowboys)--here is a guy I still can't figure out and I am pretty sure if he doesn't have a massive increase in production he might be gone after this season.Even though he has been in the league for only 4 years he will be 30 and finally this year had 50rec and 600yds.He is playing across from the best receiver in the NFC,maybe the league and thats all he can get.He runs terrible routes,doesn't like going after errant thrown balls and doesn't have great hands,Whats to like about him????????? Dallas can have him.

FOR THE RECORD HERE ARE THE OTHER RECEIVERS IN THE NFC EAST THAT MAY HAVE SOME SORT OF IMPACT.

Redskins==Thrash (34) with 9 rec. last year / M.Kelly,D.Thomas---both rookies

Giants====S.Moss,talented,but after 2 seasons and injuries who knows

Cowboys==S.Hurd,2 years of nothing--They also have a group of nothing and actually besides Owens probably have the worts WRers group in the entire NFC.

Eagles====G.Lewis,who actually would have made the top ten if Randle didn't return punts.I would have had Randle #11.D.Jackson,H.Baskett (who I don't like a little)

If you actually look at the receivers as far as talent,versatility,age,depth and the future it is obvious with the Eagles having CURTIS,BROWN,JACKSON,AVANT and LEWIS they are in the best position followed by the Giants with Burress(31),Toomer(34),Smith and Moss.The Redskins are putting a lot of stock in an oft injured over the last couple of years, 30 year old Moss,an average Randle and 2 rookies.Meanwhile,like I said,if something happens to the 35 year old Owens,Dallas is in trouble because they have nothing after him unless someone out of the blue steps up.

U might be an eagle homer, but just a little....lol

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U might be an eagle homer, but just a little....lol

Great intelligent response with plenty of backing.I just had a day long discussion with a Giants fan and unlike you he actually brought up good points that we could have fun with and go back and forth with.You brought up ----NOTHING.

Give me your argument.Let me guess,all the Cowboy receivers are the best in the league.

Notice how with every player I gave a reason.

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YOUR reasons for his decline is a major issue----INJURIES AND AGE-----which happens to be the #1 issue for decline in pro athletes.

the precise reason why McNabb is #3 in the division. there's not a gm in football would take mcnabb over romo or manning. we're a long way from 2004...

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C'mon guys, you know that this is the EMB and accepting the fact that Eli has surpassed DMac at QB is one tough friggin' pill to swallow.

BTW, watching him rip apart the Bucs on NFLN now.

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Dang the Eagles should have won the SB last year, how was it they came last in the division and didnt make the playoffs?

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Dang the Eagles should have won the SB last year, how was it they came last in the division and didnt make the playoffs?

Yeah thats pretty bad!

They still beat Dallas at least once and won as much playoff games as Dallas did.

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C'mon guys, you know that this is the EMB and accepting the fact that Eli has surpassed DMac at QB is one tough friggin' pill to swallow.

BTW, watching him rip apart the Bucs on NFLN now.

yea...i mean, eli manning has won tons of games, conference championship appearences, and all star games. and despite reports, he was never even close to being out of the league. and he played great in the playoffs, he won those games for them. this goes without saying, but hes a very consistent quarterback. hes right behind peyton manning as the 3rd best quarterback in the league. im watching him throw 4 interceptions against the vikings--er, carve up the patriots defense.

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Dang the Eagles should have won the SB last year, how was it they came last in the division and didnt make the playoffs?

thats a good question. heres another one, why hasnt romo won a playoff game with one of the best groups in the league?

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Yeah thats pretty bad!

They still beat Dallas at least once and won as much playoff games in the last TWELVE YEARS as Dallas did.

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thats a good question. heres another one, why hasnt romo won a playoff game with one of the best groups in the league?

This guy above just makes a post about how the cowboys have 1 good WR in owens and the rest are garbage, and now you post that he has one of the best groups in the league with tons of weapons. thats eagle fans at there best!

OOh and with the playoff drought, How does it feel that philly has never won the superbowl? and please don't count something from 1875 when there were 4 teams in the league.

Romo has played in 2 playoff games and played average in both. last yr TO was injuried so he had Witten and thats it. Get your playoff drought shots in while you can, cuz we both know the boys are in the start of something great

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This guy above just makes a post about how the cowboys have 1 good WR in owens and the rest are garbage, and now you post that he has one of the best groups in the league with tons of weapons. thats eagle fans at there best!

OOh and with the playoff drought, How does it feel that philly has never won the superbowl? and please don't count something from 1875 when there were 4 teams in the league.

Romo has played in 2 playoff games and played average in both. last yr TO was injuried so he had Witten and thats it. Get your playoff drought shots in while you can, cuz we both know the boys are in the start of something great

T.O. played injured in the Super Bowl.....you dont hear Eagles fans complaining about " Our #1 reciever wasnt 100%" do you?

I want to see Romo advance his team far BY HIMSELF....before you cockroach Cowboy fans start crowning the guy King.

Dallas has Owens, Witten and, ill even give ya Crayton...yet Romo still cant find an open reciever once he avoids 3 tackles due to another offensive line breakdown. Instead he tends to find a guy wearing a different color jersey. funny..

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This guy above just makes a post about how the cowboys have 1 good WR in owens and the rest are garbage, and now you post that he has one of the best groups in the league with tons of weapons. thats eagle fans at there best!

OOh and with the playoff drought, How does it feel that philly has never won the superbowl? and please don't count something from 1875 when there were 4 teams in the league.

Romo has played in 2 playoff games and played average in both. last yr TO was injuried so he had Witten and thats it. Get your playoff drought shots in while you can, cuz we both know the boys are in the start of something great

Would you agree that in the division,the Cowboys WRers are by far the weakest????????????????????????

When ever I look at players,I never take what they have done for 1 season or parts of 2 seasons,but how they have done for 3-4-5 years.While I think Romo may turn out to be a very good consistent QB,,the fact is he has had some great games and some horrendous games,,,mostly in the big games,,,which leaves me hesitant to rank him above McNabb.McNabb,as we all know,when healthy has displayed the ability to win many big games.The obvious question is will he be healthy.As far as anyone thinking Manning is better then a healthy McNabb just doesn't watch or understand football.With 1/2 the season to go last year there was talk of him never being able to be anything more then below average and QB may need to be addressed in the draft.Yes he was the winning QB in all the playoff games,,but the fact is he basically was given enough rope not to hang himself.His play was know more then average to below average and had his far share of strange plays that went his way.As my 2 die hard Giant fans said,,"with him as our QB it would not surprise us if we don't even make the playoffs---he absolutely stinks.

I don't think Manning stinks,,but to date he is know more then a border line average NFL QB.He is still young so he might get better,but it doesn't look like he has the make-up to be better then average.

With that said,,I will take a lousy Manning on my team if the Eagles would win the SB instead of a great McNabb and not win the SB.

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