Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

gaitherfan

Top 5 Lists: Defense

Recommended Posts

Tell me what is so way off, folks.

Patterson is the best DT, Cole is debatably the best DE (Tuck and Umenyiora could also vie for that spot), Dawk is the best S, and all 3 of our CBs are in the top 5.

I could see Q and Gaither not making the top 5 lists, but others I don't see how this is overly homerific (though I can't deny bias).

The list of players itself isn't bad, but the order is questionable. No one else really stands out among the DTs so Patterson at #1 is OK. Dawkins over Hamlin and Landry? Lito over Newman? Clemons over Andre Carter? Gaither is on the list but Greg Ellis isn't? You yourself said Gaither not making the top 5 is understandable, but it's not like you have him at 5, you have him at 3. Like you said, Cole, Tuck, and Osi can all vie for that #1 spot, but the fact that you chose Cole at #1, along with everything else I pointed out, it all seems a bit homerish.

Like you said though, there's no way getting around a bias towards your team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think Osi is solid, but I think Tuck is on the verge of being even better than Osi. That said, it is more than fair to swap the 2... Tuck/Osi/Cole could all be interchangeable on the rankings and I'd still find it fair.

Tuck had one good season, coming in and spelling Strahan, coming in fresh that is going up against lineman who were tired. Osi played solid all year long. Im not defending him or anything, but until I see Tuck perform on Osi's level in a starting role, he is not better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The list of players itself isn't bad, but the order is questionable. No one else really stands out among the DTs so Patterson at #1 is OK. Dawkins over Hamlin and Landry? Lito over Newman? Clemons over Andre Carter? Gaither is on the list but Greg Ellis isn't? You yourself said Gaither not making the top 5 is understandable, but it's not like you have him at 5, you have him at 3. Like you said, Cole, Tuck, and Osi can all vie for that #1 spot, but the fact that you chose Cole at #1, along with everything else I pointed out, it all seems a bit homerish.

Like you said though, there's no way getting around a bias towards your team.

A healthy Dawkins is clearly better then Hamlin or Landry.

Lito and Newman are close, but again a healthy Lito is better then Newman. Lito is a guy who can shut down the Moss's and TO's of the world.

Cole is clearly better then Osi and Tuck. He's a MUCH better run defender then Osi, and a slightly better pass rusher and run defender then Tuck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A healthy Dawkins is clearly better then Hamlin or Landry.

Lito and Newman are close, but again a healthy Lito is better then Newman. Lito is a guy who can shut down the Moss's and TO's of the world.

Cole is clearly better then Osi and Tuck. He's a MUCH better run defender then Osi, and a slightly better pass rusher and run defender then Tuck.

A healthy Dawkins a few years ago is clearly better than Hamlin and Landry. Not today though. I think Landry is on the verge of becoming something special.

I think a healthy Lito is about equal with Newman. I consider durability a part of my rankings, so I'd take Newman over Lito any day.

I wouldn't say Cole is clearly better than Osi, but I do think he's better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A healthy Dawkins a few years ago is clearly better than Hamlin and Landry. Not today though. I think Landry is on the verge of becoming something special.

I think a healthy Lito is about equal with Newman. I consider durability a part of my rankings, so I'd take Newman over Lito any day.

I wouldn't say Cole is clearly better than Osi, but I do think he's better.

We'll have to wait and see on Dawkins. You can't say definitively that he can't play at his 2006 level any more. I mean, for christ sakes he's 1 year removed from first team all-pro.

Lito is a better player then Newman. Newman is more durable but if you can have one player for one game you want Sheppard.

Cole is out of Osi's league. There is more to playing DE then pass rushing, and Cole is clearly a better rund defender. He's also a slightly better pass rusher.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't get this Newman is better than Lito ish at all. Can someone explain how a player who wouldn't be a starter for our team is suddenly the better CB than an all-pro. If it's strictly a durability question, sure, but Lito is a shutdown corner... Newman, not so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tuck had one good season, coming in and spelling Strahan, coming in fresh that is going up against lineman who were tired. Osi played solid all year long. Im not defending him or anything, but until I see Tuck perform on Osi's level in a starting role, he is not better.

Fair Enough. They are the 2 and 3 in the top 5. Pick Osi first, not a problem for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
disgustingly homerific

I think my most homeriffic choice was Clemons. I made a few edits and took him off for Andre Carter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think my most homeriffic choice was Clemons. I made a few edits and took him off for Andre Carter.

Greg Ellis and his 12.5 sacks doesn't put him in the top 5?

As for Lito and Newman.... I have no idea where to find the stats, but I'd bet that Lito gives up more big plays than Newman does. Technically, Lito isn't a starter on this team either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Greg Ellis and his 12.5 sacks doesn't put him in the top 5?

As for Lito and Newman.... I have no idea where to find the stats, but I'd bet that Lito gives up more big plays than Newman does. Technically, Lito isn't a starter on this team either.

What do you mean technically... Lito is the better corner and when healthy you can argue that he is just as good as Asante... people seriously need to stop assuming that Lito is the 3rd CB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you mean technically... Lito is the better corner and when healthy you can argue that he is just as good as Asante... people seriously need to stop assuming that Lito is the 3rd CB

especially when sheldon and JJ both said sheldon will be playing the slot CB role.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is my projection of what they will do this year:

DT:

1. Bunkley

2. T. Johnson

3. Ratliff

4. Patterson

5. Robbins

DE:

1. Tuck

2. Cole

3. Carter

4. Canty

5. Umenorya

LB:

1. Ware

2. Bradley

3. Pierce

4. Ellis

5. Blades

S:

1. Landry

2. Dawkins

3. Hamlin

4. Knight

5. toss up between Mikell, Phillips, or Williams

CB:

1. Samuel

2. Newman

3. A. Ross

4. Sheppard (if he's still here)

5. Smoot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally think that any list of the "Best CB in the NFCE" is BS without Aaron Ross being somewhere on that list is an incomplete list.

Also, to not include T. Johnson and G. Ellis is pure oversight. Both players are incredible although it was hard with Ellis because he's a DE in a 4-3 and a LB in a 3-4. Also, Smoot is definitely the best CB on the Redskins when healthy.

And yes, I think Bunkley will have his breakout year and be just as dominant, if not more as Corey Simon in '02.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I personally think that any list of the "Best CB in the NFCE" is BS without Aaron Ross being somewhere on that list is an incomplete list.

Also, to not include T. Johnson and G. Ellis is pure oversight. Both players are incredible although it was hard with Ellis because he's a DE in a 4-3 and a LB in a 3-4. Also, Smoot is definitely the best CB on the Redskins when healthy.

And yes, I think Bunkley will have his breakout year and be just as dominant, if not more as Corey Simon in '02.

Ellis is a good point to make... likely an oversight on my part...

However, Tank has not shown much since leaving the Bears, IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ellis is a good point to make... likely an oversight on my part...

However, Tank has not shown much since leaving the Bears, IMO

I think Tank had 1 bad year - or was it 2, I can't remember. But I do know was that before the legal ish happened, him and Tommie Harris were the reason why Urlacher was the best MLB in the country. Because of the 3-4 Dallas runs, its hard to say what DT's will do but Tank is/was one helauva DT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What do you mean technically... Lito is the better corner and when healthy you can argue that he is just as good as Asante... people seriously need to stop assuming that Lito is the 3rd CB

When Lito is healthy, he's one of the top corners in the game. He can be effective one-on-one vs. good WRs, you can leave the guy out on an island when you send the house and he'll do a good job, and he has a long history of making big plays in big situations. And he's still only 27 years old.

Problem is, he's only healthy for 2/3 of the season. A major issue which has undoubtedly hurt his trade value this offseason.

And Lito probably is the 3rd CB, as Brown has long manned the RCB spot. Besides, in this scheme the 3rd corner still gets on the field 60-70% of the time so Lito will see alot of action anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think Osi is solid, but I think Tuck is on the verge of being even better than Osi. That said, it is more than fair to swap the 2... Tuck/Osi/Cole could all be interchangeable on the rankings and I'd still find it fair.

As soon as OSI learns how to play the run then you can talk about him and Cole in the same breath,,until then,OSI is not the player Cole is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A healthy Dawkins a few years ago is clearly better than Hamlin and Landry. Not today though. I think Landry is on the verge of becoming something special.

I think a healthy Lito is about equal with Newman. I consider durability a part of my rankings, so I'd take Newman over Lito any day.

I wouldn't say Cole is clearly better than Osi, but I do think he's better.

When 1 guy has 70 tackles and the other guy has 50---one is clearly better against the run..

When 1 guy has 10 games with 2 tackles or less and the other guy only has 3,one is clearly better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Roy Williams had almost 60 more tackles than Dawkins last year

Tank played in a new system with no training camp for just half a year, so it's hard to say where he might rank.

Samuel probably wont be in the top 5 best corners in the NFC East alone after this year. Anthony Henry has had 16 ints in 2 seperate seasons too, one of which was last year when he only started about 12 games.

You cant really rank 4-3 and 3-4 DEs together, because you are looking at 95% sacks alone, and 3-4 DEs arent edge rushers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Roy Williams had almost 60 more tackles than Dawkins last year

Tank played in a new system with no training camp for just half a year, so it's hard to say where he might rank.

Samuel probably wont be in the top 5 best corners in the NFC East alone after this year. Anthony Henry has had 16 ints in 2 seperate seasons too, one of which was last year when he only started about 12 games.

You cant really rank 4-3 and 3-4 DEs together, because you are looking at 95% sacks alone, and 3-4 DEs arent edge rushers.

Well your not football expert to tell me where Samuel is going to rank in NFC East cornerbacks this season, ill just avoid that stupid point.

Yeah, im glad Roy Williams had 60 more tackles than Dawkins last year.

That means:

A. A Cowboy cornerback blew a pass coverage, and Roy made the play.

B. Roy got away with a questionable horsecollar.

C. He got burnt and had to pus the player out of bounds.

D. DeMarcus Ware overran the blitz and Roy made the tackle after an 8 yard gain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well your not football expert to tell me where Samuel is going to rank in NFC East cornerbacks this season, ill just avoid that stupid point.

Yeah, im glad Roy Williams had 60 more tackles than Dawkins last year.

That means:

A. A Cowboy cornerback blew a pass coverage, and Roy made the play.

B. Roy got away with a questionable horsecollar.

C. He got burnt and had to pus the player out of bounds.

D. DeMarcus Ware overran the blitz and Roy made the tackle after an 8 yard gain.

Considering the Cowboys pass defense was ranked higher than the Eagles last year than Dawkins should have had 150 tackles by your logic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Considering the Cowboys pass defense was ranked higher than the Eagles last year than Dawkins should have had 150 tackles by your logic.

All that goes by is yards....

Cowboys cornerbacks still gave up alot of catches, whether it was for 35 yards or 5 yards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As soon as OSI learns how to play the run then you can talk about him and Cole in the same breath,,until then,OSI is not the player Cole is.

I'm gonna be nice and simply suggest that you never...ever, post again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quintin Mikell and Omar Gaither are certainly debatable as being on the lists... but none of the others really are at all.

Placement on the Top 5 is very unclear, but I think the Eagles defense is solid going into this season. Can you debate that?

Does suggesting that you're full of ish qualify as debate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites