BillySims

Why do people consider Terrell Owens so "talented?"

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You don't get as many chances as he did if he was mediocre. He would have been a first ballot hall of famer if his head was screwed on properly 

 

1. Never said he was mediocre. This is about his talent, not the kind of football player he was.

 

2. His head was screwed on fine. He made one mistake as a 49er with his touchdown celebrations in Dallas when he was stupid enough to take the team chaplain's advice literally and never recovered from it because he was too stupid to grasp that the media was after him. He's a slow-witted southern country bumpkin...almost like a black Forrest Gump.

 

3. No, he would not have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. He absolutely maximized his potential and exceeded all expectations. He accomplished more than he had any right to.

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1. Never said he was mediocre. This is about his talent, not the kind of football player he was.

2. His head was screwed on fine. He made one mistake as a 49er with his touchdown celebrations in Dallas when he was stupid enough to take the team chaplain's advice literally and never recovered from it because he was too stupid to grasp that the media was after him. He's a slow-witted southern country bumpkin...almost like a black Forrest Gump.

3. No, he would not have been a first ballot Hall of Famer. He absolutely maximized his potential and exceeded all expectations. He accomplished more than he had any right to.

You realize getting open is a talent. YAC is a talent. Being durable (until his late years) is a talent. Not all talents are physical. For example, you have an innate talent for making really stupid posts and continuing to defend them with even stupider arguement.

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TO was fast and explosive as f***

He blew by corners and threw them around. In the open field his agility was ridiculous. This thread is comedy gold.

OP has retina damage.

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You realize getting open is a talent. YAC is a talent. Being durable (until his late years) is a talent. Not all talents are physical. For example, you have an innate talent for making really stupid posts and continuing to defend them with even stupider arguement.

 

No, in his case getting open was a skill he developed through hard work. So was running after the catch. He didn't do any of this with athletic ability, he did it all with technique and determination.

 

As I said several times before in this thread, height isn't a talent, and neither is weight. Height can be considered a "gift," but it's not an ability. And weight is something a person largely has control over through work/choices.

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No, in his case getting open was a skill he developed through hard work. So was running after the catch. He didn't do any of this with athletic ability, he did it all with technique and determination.

As I said several times before in this thread, height isn't a talent, and neither is weight. Height can be considered a "gift," but it's not an ability. And weight is something a person largely has control over through work/choices.

Nobody cares what "you said" a talent is. Getting open in the nfl is definitely a talent. It's the main reason less physically gifted guys can be so successful while a lot of all world athletes fail. In a lot of cases it can't be taught.

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TO was fast and explosive as f***

He blew by corners and threw them around. In the open field his agility was ridiculous. This thread is comedy gold.

OP has retina damage.

And so much of TO's talent was totally unaffected by his gym time. Spacial awareness and body control. Peripheral vision. Reading a defensive players body position and instantly reading whether to juke and which way, or turn on the jets and blow by. Reading a ball in the air. "Feeling" or "sensing" a defender. Those are all raw talents Owens had in spades, that was 100 percent inborn, 0 percent gym attributed.

The OP clearly never watched him play. Just read stat books. Most great athletes like TO or Elway, it's the completely unmeasureable intangibles that set them apart. Their pure, natural born talents.

OP is just flat embarrassing himself.

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And so much of TO's talent was totally unaffected by his gym time. Spacial awareness and body control. Peripheral vision. Reading a defensive players body position and instantly reading whether to juke and which way, or turn on the jets and blow by. Reading a ball in the air. "Feeling" or "sensing" a defender. Those are all raw talents Owens had in spades, that was 100 percent inborn, 0 percent gym attributed.

The OP clearly never watched him play. Just read stat books. Most great athletes like TO or Elway, it's the completely unmeasureable intangibles that set them apart. Their pure, natural born talents.

OP is just flat embarrassing himself.

 

Reading a ball in the air? You do realize Owens led the league in drops every year and was known to have some of the worst hands in the NFL, right?

 

Body control? You do know that Owens's body control was known to be poor, which is why he was terrible on routes where he had to make quick, sharp cuts, right?

 

That DBs such as Ryan Clark said they never feared Owens before he caught the ball, it was only after he caught it because of his size and strength (which was all a combination of height, which is not a talent, and working his a** off in the weight room, which is not a talent) that they worried about him?

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Nobody cares what "you said" a talent is. Getting open in the nfl is definitely a talent. It's the main reason less physically gifted guys can be so successful while a lot of all world athletes fail. In a lot of cases it can't be taught.

 

No, it absolutely CAN be taught. That's the whole point. What do you think coaches are teaching? Athleticism, or technique for getting open?

 

Owens, unlike a lot of guys, always worked his a** off and paid attention to what his receivers coaches were telling him.

 

Certain people in this thread are just utterly delusional. "Millions of kids work harder than Owens"...uh, when? In between doing their homework, getting drunk, getting high, and getting laid, while Owens was eating nothing but chicken and egg whites and drinking water and juice?

 

Even tons of professionals don't work as hard as coaches want them to. Most players go out drinking on their days off. Owens didn't. Most players eat pizza and other crap on team flights. Owens starved himself in those situations. Tons of players smoke weed in the off-season. Owens played basketball in the off-season.

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Reading a ball in the air? You do realize Owens led the league in drops every year and was known to have some of the worst hands in the NFL, right?

 

Body control? You do know that Owens's body control was known to be poor, which is why he was terrible on routes where he had to make quick, sharp cuts, right?

 

That DBs such as Ryan Clark said they never feared Owens before he caught the ball, it was only after he caught it because of his size and strength (which was all a combination of height, which is not a talent, and working his a** off in the weight room, which is not a talent) that they worried about him?

Reading the ball has zero to do with the hands. It's knowing the instant a ball is thrown, where you have to adjust your stride or even route to get position on it while screening the defender. It's an impossible talent to teach, and owens had it in spades. Spacial awareness, knowing without looking where the sideline is, 1st down or goal line. Unteachable, and owens had it in spades.

Again after the catch, the unteachable talent to read a defender to know what will make him miss, the body control to shrug, twist or spin on contact, spacial awareness to sense when there's room to bounce outside, the peripheral vison to see a lane start to open on the side.

You have to be born with those talents. They can be elevated through workouts and coaching, but to get to TO or rices status, you HAVE to start with a foundation of immense talent.

And get out of the trailor park. Yes, over the last twenty-thirty years, millions of kids have worked out as hard or harder than TO, eaten clean and not drugged or drank, and washed out of their sport of choice

Working out can and will enhance performance, but it will never replace talent.

TO would have been far less successful in the NFL sans workouts, but without his talent and just the workouts, he'd have never sniffed the NFL. Period.

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No, it absolutely CAN be taught. That's the whole point. What do you think coaches are teaching? Athleticism, or technique for getting open?

Owens, unlike a lot of guys, always worked his a** off and paid attention to what his receivers coaches were telling him.

Certain people in this thread are just utterly delusional. "Millions of kids work harder than Owens"...uh, when? In between doing their homework, getting drunk, getting high, and getting laid, while Owens was eating nothing but chicken and egg whites and drinking water and juice?

Even tons of professionals don't work as hard as coaches want them to. Most players go out drinking on their days off. Owens didn't. Most players eat pizza and other crap on team flights. Owens starved himself in those situations. Tons of players smoke weed in the off-season. Owens played basketball in the off-season.

It CAN be taught. But in a lot of cases it CAN'T be learned. Re read what I wrote. "In a lot of cases"

You are a scary combination of stubborn and stupid.

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Reading the ball has zero to do with the hands. It's knowing the instant a ball is thrown, where you have to adjust your stride or even route to get position on it while screening the defender. It's an impossible talent to teach, and owens had it in spades. Spacial awareness, knowing without looking where the sideline is, 1st down or goal line. Unteachable, and owens had it in spades.

Again after the catch, the unteachable talent to read a defender to know what will make him miss, the body control to shrug, twist or spin on contact, spacial awareness to sense when there's room to bounce outside, the peripheral vison to see a lane start to open on the side.

You have to be born with those talents. They can be elevated through workouts and coaching, but to get to TO or rices status, you HAVE to start with a foundation of immense talent.

And get out of the trailor park. Yes, over the last twenty-thirty years, millions of kids have worked out as hard or harder than TO, eaten clean and not drugged or drank, and washed out of their sport of choice

Working out can and will enhance performance, but it will never replace talent.

TO would have been far less successful in the NFL sans workouts, but without his talent and just the workouts, he'd have never sniffed the NFL. Period.

 

Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. What you are saying is complete BS, but you actually have the audacity to think you can talk your way into something legitimate. Really amusing to see it in action.

 

As someone who owns several books written by scouts with actual scouting reports in them, I know what terms do and do not exist in NFL scouting. There isn't a scouting report on the face of the earth (by an actual scout and not some blogger) talking about a receiver "reading the ball." And "spatial awareness," as you call it (usually referred to as "vision") is a make-believe buzzword for people who can't explain why a player with limited ability is having success.

 

Usually, it's a polite way of avoiding saying a player is a product of a system and his numbers don't actually come from his own talent.

 

"knowing without looking where the sideline is, 1st down or goal line."

 

Uh, what? Where do you get the idea that Owens could find any line, with or without looking? Owens was NEVER known as a great boundary receiver. Did you confuse him for Cris Carter? He was never one to drag his toes at the back or corner of the end zone or before going out of bounds. He was clumsy and uncoordinated.

 

Owens didn't make defenders miss, he broke tackles simply by being heavier than the smaller DBs. And he was heavier than them because he dedicated his life to gaining weight. He left high school 175 pounds. He left college 213 pounds. By 2001, he was 226 pounds. There aren't many 226+ pound defensive backs, and there certainly weren't when he was putting up the big numbers.

 

He'd run basic straight line/soft angle routes and most of the time when he got open, it was the result of the scheme getting him open thanks to the route designs. He played in good systems his whole career until Buffalo (where he not coincidentally failed to produce). But then his combination of size/weight and determination took over and he overpowered guys trying to tackle him to make 7 yard catches into big plays.

 

That's not talent. That's the product of hard work. Jon Gruden basically said he was like Shaq. But Shaq didn't get his size and power by being some kind of workaholic, he was just born with freakish size.

 

And then he'd mix in the odd deep ball, which he'd get open on through pure understanding of the game as a result of listening to his coaches. He's dumb as a box of rocks, but that's an advantage for most types of athletes. Look at Mike Tyson. He was a student of boxing technique before he went off the rails, and it was because he wasn't about to question Cus D'Amato.

 

And notice, Owens got better and better at the deep ball as he got older. He had the best yards/catch average of his career in 2007 with Dallas, age 34. Now why do you think that is? Could it be that his performance was directly tied to learning technique and the ability to read coverages and make adjustments as a result through his hard work and experience, and not his talent?

 

 

"And get out of the trailor park. Yes, over the last twenty-thirty years, millions of kids have worked out as hard or harder than TO, eaten clean and not drugged or drank, and washed out of their sport of choice"

 

Actually, I went to a high school that was more than a quarter black. Tons and tons of athletes. All of them drank, most of them smoked weed. That's a pretty big sample size.

 

A few of them even made it to the NFL.

 

You don't see many high school or college athletes willing to sacrifice drinking, partying, etc. You don't see that in the NFL very often, either. You're not living in the real world if you actually think it's common to find people as determined as Owens was.

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Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. What you are saying is complete BS, but you actually have the audacity to think you can talk your way into something legitimate. Really amusing to see it in action.

 

As someone who owns several books written by scouts with actual scouting reports in them, I know what terms do and do not exist in NFL scouting. There isn't a scouting report on the face of the earth (by an actual scout and not some blogger) talking about a receiver "reading the ball." And "spatial awareness," as you call it (usually referred to as "vision") is a make-believe buzzword for people who can't explain why a player with limited ability is having success.

 

Usually, it's a polite way of avoiding saying a player is a product of a system and his numbers don't actually come from his own talent.

 

"knowing without looking where the sideline is, 1st down or goal line."

 

Uh, what? Where do you get the idea that Owens could find any line, with or without looking? Owens was NEVER known as a great boundary receiver. Did you confuse him for Cris Carter? He was never one to drag his toes at the back or corner of the end zone or before going out of bounds. He was clumsy and uncoordinated.

 

Owens didn't make defenders miss, he broke tackles simply by being heavier than the smaller DBs. And he was heavier than them because he dedicated his life to gaining weight. He left high school 175 pounds. He left college 213 pounds. By 2001, he was 226 pounds. There aren't many 226+ pound defensive backs, and there certainly weren't when he was putting up the big numbers.

 

He'd run basic straight line/soft angle routes and most of the time when he got open, it was the result of the scheme getting him open thanks to the route designs. He played in good systems his whole career until Buffalo (where he not coincidentally failed to produce). But then his combination of size/weight and determination took over and he overpowered guys trying to tackle him to make 7 yard catches into big plays.

 

That's not talent. That's the product of hard work. Jon Gruden basically said he was like Shaq. But Shaq didn't get his size and power by being some kind of workaholic, he was just born with freakish size.

 

And then he'd mix in the odd deep ball, which he'd get open on through pure understanding of the game as a result of listening to his coaches. He's dumb as a box of rocks, but that's an advantage for most types of athletes. Look at Mike Tyson. He was a student of boxing technique before he went off the rails, and it was because he wasn't about to question Cus D'Amato.

 

And notice, Owens got better and better at the deep ball as he got older. He had the best yards/catch average of his career in 2007 with Dallas, age 34. Now why do you think that is? Could it be that his performance was directly tied to learning technique and the ability to read coverages and make adjustments as a result through his hard work and experience, and not his talent?

 

 

"And get out of the trailor park. Yes, over the last twenty-thirty years, millions of kids have worked out as hard or harder than TO, eaten clean and not drugged or drank, and washed out of their sport of choice"

 

Actually, I went to a high school that was more than a quarter black. Tons and tons of athletes. All of them drank, most of them smoked weed. That's a pretty big sample size.

 

A few of them even made it to the NFL.

 

You don't see many high school or college athletes willing to sacrifice drinking, partying, etc. You don't see that in the NFL very often, either. You're not living in the real world if you actually think it's common to find people as determined as Owens was.

I read a couple paragraphs, and since not a single thing you said in them was actually true, I gave up.

Night.

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Let's break it down.

 

Catch 1: Corner gives Owens a huge cushion, Owens runs his route underneath the cushion, is basically uncontested as the LB in zone is late to react.

 

Catch 2: Ricky Manning Jr has Owens completely blanketed but the ball is underthrown and, surprise surprise, the 6'2".5 inch Owens catches the ball over the 5'9" Ricky Manning Jr. There's that height thing coming into play again. But Owens was so talented at being 6'2".5

 

Catch 3: Simple slant against a cushion, freebee short completion.

 

Catch 4: Owens left wide open on a blown coverage. Somebody in Carolina's coverage unit made a mental mistake and left the middle of the field wide open. Look at the reaction of the corner as he was expecting somebody inside to pick up Owens. Owens uses his 4.7 speed to run straight down the field untouched, cut back, and get tackled by the first defender in his vicinity.

 

 

Here's another:

 

 

Catch 1: Simple drive route. Left uncovered. Pass caught 3 yards from the line of scrimmage. No defenders in the area, Owens takes it straight up the field and runs out of bounds when the first defender arrives. First down. Literally, I could have made this play.

 

Catch 2: Owens runs deep post pattern and is blanketed but McNabb makes a perfect throw out in front. A foot further and it's overthrown, a foot behind and it's knocked away by the DB.

 

Catch 3: This one came from pure work ethic. Owens killed Anthony Henry at the line of scrimmage with pure technique/strength against the jam. And if you don't believe his ability to get off the jam was pure hard work, you might look up the fact that Owens says he couldn't get off the jam to save his life when he first entered the NFL.

 

Catch 4: Underneath route against zone, Browns are willing to let him catch this, and then he breaks a tackle before going out of bounds. Again, he had height, he had weight from the weight room, and he had good but not great strength from the weight room. Nothing else.

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I read a couple paragraphs, and since not a single thing you said in them was actually true, I gave up.

Night.

 

Do you want me to post every single scouting report from all of my books so you can see how your laughable nonsense about a receiver "reading the ball" is never mentioned once?

 

"Reading the ball" is something you will occasionally find as a phrase (or something similar) for a defensive player. Not a receiver. You're a football novice who is trying to cover up that fact with pseudo-scouting jargon straight out of 2010's wannabe scout blogville, but you walked into a trap because I am extremely well-versed in it. More than the vast majority of posters you will come in contact with.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0y5rYN1MRk

Let's break it down.

Catch 1: Corner gives Owens a huge cushion, Owens runs his route underneath the cushion, is basically uncontested as the LB in zone is late to react.

Catch 2: Ricky Manning Jr has Owens completely blanketed but the ball is underthrown and, surprise surprise, the 6'2".5 inch Owens catches the ball over the 5'9" Ricky Manning Jr. There's that height thing coming into play again. But Owens was so talented at being 6'2".5

Catch 3: Simple slant against a cushion, freebee short completion.

Catch 4: Owens left wide open on a blown coverage. Somebody in Carolina's coverage unit made a mental mistake and left the middle of the field wide open. Look at the reaction of the corner as he was expecting somebody inside to pick up Owens. Owens uses his 4.7 speed to run straight down the field untouched, cut back, and get tackled by the first defender in his vicinity.

Here's another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqMWZENrHm0

Catch 1: Simple drive route. Left uncovered. Pass caught 3 yards from the line of scrimmage. No defenders in the area, Owens takes it straight up the field and runs out of bounds when the first defender arrives. First down. Literally, I could have made this play.

Catch 2: Owens runs deep post pattern and is blanketed but McNabb makes a perfect throw out in front. A foot further and it's overthrown, a foot behind and it's knocked away by the DB.

Catch 3: This one came from pure work ethic. Owens killed Anthony Henry at the line of scrimmage with pure technique/strength against the jam. And if you don't believe his ability to get off the jam was pure hard work, you might look up the fact that Owens says he couldn't get off the jam to save his life when he first entered the NFL.

Catch 4: Underneath route against zone, Browns are willing to let him catch this, and then he breaks a tackle before going out of bounds. Again, he had height, he had weight from the weight room, and he had good but not great strength from the weight room. Nothing else.

Show his other 1000 catches please.

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NFL records

Currently, the only player in NFL history to score a TD against all 32 NFL teams

Currently, the only player in NFL history to score two or more touchdowns against all 32 NFL teams

Oldest player to have a reception of 98+ yards (35 years, 350 days)

Oldest player to have a TD reception of 78+ yards (36 years, 300 days)

Oldest player to have a 200-yard receiving game (36 years, 300 days)

Consecutive Seasons with at least 5 or more touchdown receptions, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945

Consecutive Seasons with at least 5 or more touchdowns, 2000-2010 (11) - tied with Marvin Harrison 1996-2006, Jerry Rice 1986-1996, Cris Carter 1991-2001, Tim Brown 1991-2001, Don Hutson 1935-1945

Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdown receptions, 1996-2010 (15)

Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdowns, 1996-2010 (15)

Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdown receptions, 1996-2010 (15)

Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdowns, 1996-2010 (15)

Consecutive seasons with at least 750 receiving yards, 1997-2010 (14)

One of six players to have at least 2 receptions of 90+ yards (John Taylor, Mike Quick, Gaynell Tinsley, Steve Watson, and Willard Dewveall)

49ers franchise records

Most receptions in a single game: 20 (12/17/00 vs Chicago Bears) (Week 15)[54]

Eagles franchise records

Most reception touchdowns in a single season: 14 (2004)[55][not in citation given]

Most receiving yards per game, season: 109.0 (2005) 763 in 7 games.

Cowboys franchise records

Most consecutive games with at least a touchdown: 7 (2007). Record shared with Franklin Clarke (1961-1962), Bob Hayes (1965-1966) and Dez Bryant (2012])[56]

Most touchdown receptions in a single game: 4 (11/18/07 vs Washington Redskins). Record shared with Bob Hayes (12/20/70)

Most receiving yards per game, career: 76.3 (2006-2008)

Bills franchise records

Longest reception touchdown: 98 (11/22/09 vs Jacksonville Jaguars) (Week 11)[57]

Career Milestones

5th player to reach 150 touchdowns

6th player to reach 1,000 career receptions, 6th player to reach 100 touchdown receptions, 6th player to reach 14,000 receiving yards

3rd player to reach 150 touchdown receptions, 3rd player to reach 15,000 receiving yards

Through 15 seasons, has 156 total touchdowns (153 receiving), 15,934 receiving yards, 1,078 receptions, 39 rushing attempts, 251 rushing yards, 3 rushing touchdowns, 5 kickoff returns, 23 kickoff return yards, 2 fumble recoveries, 13 fumble return yards, and 3 two-point conversions

Averaged one touchdown per game in 2001, 2004, and 2007[58]

Has had nine 1,000 yard seasons, including five consecutive (2000–2004)[58]

Reached 100 catches in only 14 games in 2002[58]

Led League in receiving touchdowns in 2001, 2002, and 2006[59]

Third all-time in regular season receiving touchdowns behind Jerry Rice and Randy Moss

Second all-time in regular season receiving yards behind Jerry Rice.

Sixth all-time in regular season receptions behind Jerry Rice, Tony Gonzalez, Marvin Harrison, Cris Carter, and Tim Brown.[60]

Second all-time in seasons with 13+ touchdown receptions with 7, behind Jerry Rice, who has 8.

Tied for third all-time in seasons with 50+ receptions with 13 (Andre Reed), behind Tony Gonzalez, who has 16, and Jerry Rice, who has 17.

Ranked 31 on NFL Career Playoff Receptions list.

Ranked 31 on NFL Career Playoff Receiving Yards list (Jerry Rice #1, Michael Irvin #2, and Cliff Branch #3).

Ranked 38 on NFL Career Playoff Receiving Touchdown list.

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People don't seem to understand how "catches" work in the NFL.

 

There are 6 types of catches.

 

1. Plays where the receiver gets open

2. Plays where the receiver doesn't get open and the QB makes a great throw

3. Plays where the receiver doesn't get open and the WR makes a great catch

4. Plays where the defense intentionally allows the receiver to get open

5. Plays where the defense unintentionally allows a receiver to get open

6. Plays where the offensive system gets the receiver open

 

Of these 6, #1 is by far and away the least common.

 

So bringing up how many catches a player has shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of football. Anyone can get a catch on certain types of plays. And in some situations, those certain types of plays are more common than others.

 

A receiver catching 8 passes the defense gives him is no more impressive than catching 1. If he can do it once, he can do it again and again. Quantity of these types of plays is meaningless in determining who the good receivers are.

 

And if those types of plays were all Owens had to show, he'd be worthless as an NFL receiver.

 

But that wasn't all he had to show. He had the work ethic and determination to break tackles after the catch and to get open in certain situations by using his knowledge of the game, which was again a result of his work ethic. And he played through injuries because of his determination. He gave everything he had on the field.

 

But what he didn't have was natural ability relative to his peers. He was slow as molasses. He jumped like a white man. He was stiff and slow out of his breaks/didn't change direction well. He had poor hand-eye coordination and struggled catching the football. And he didn't have great natural strength - he had to work his a** off for it, as he was naturally scrawny and weak. And then he had to develop technique to play with good "functional strength" on the field, as he came to 49ers camp and couldn't get off the jam to save his life.

 

Why should a guy who runs 4.6-4.7, leaps 33 inches, has poor agility, and has poor hand-eye coordination be #2 in NFL history in receiving yards and #3 in receiving touchdowns?

 

Because he developed the best physique of any receiver in football (other than David Boston, who also had a dominant year before the steroids caught up to him) through pure hard work. Because he had the attitude to play through injuries. Because he worked his a** off to master the technique to overcome his athletic limitations and to learn how to adjust to coverages in the film room.

 

Imagine how good David Boston could have been had he managed the Owens approach. Or David Terrell. Or Reggie Williams. Or Mike Williams. Or Roy Williams.

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People don't seem to understand how "catches" work in the NFL.

There are 6 types of catches.

1. Plays where the receiver gets open

2. Plays where the receiver doesn't get open and the QB makes a great throw

3. Plays where the receiver doesn't get open and the WR makes a great catch

4. Plays where the defense intentionally allows the receiver to get open

5. Plays where the defense unintentionally allows a receiver to get open

6. Plays where the offensive system gets the receiver open

Of these 6, #1 is by far and away the least common.

So bringing up how many catches a player has shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of football. Anyone can get a catch on certain types of plays. And in some situations, those certain types of plays are more common than others.

A receiver catching 8 passes the defense gives him is no more impressive than catching 1. If he can do it once, he can do it again and again. Quantity of these types of plays is meaningless in determining who the good receivers are.

And if those types of plays were all Owens had to show, he'd be worthless as an NFL receiver.

But that wasn't all he had to show. He had the work ethic and determination to break tackles after the catch and to get open in certain situations by using his knowledge of the game, which was again a result of his work ethic. And he played through injuries because of his determination. He gave everything he had on the field.

But what he didn't have was natural ability relative to his peers. He was slow as molasses. He jumped like a white man. He was stiff and slow out of his breaks/didn't change direction well. He had poor hand-eye coordination and struggled catching the football. And he didn't have great natural strength - he had to work his a** off for it, as he was naturally scrawny and weak. And then he had to develop technique to play with good "functional strength" on the field, as he came to 49ers camp and couldn't get off the jam to save his life.

Why should a guy who runs 4.6-4.7, leaps 33 inches, has poor agility, and has poor hand-eye coordination be #2 in NFL history in receiving yards and #3 in receiving touchdowns?

Because he developed the best physique of any receiver in football (other than David Boston, who also had a dominant year before the steroids caught up to him) through pure hard work. Because he had the attitude to play through injuries. Because he worked his a** off to master the technique to overcome his athletic limitations and to learn how to adjust to coverages in the film room.

Imagine how good David Boston could have been had he managed the Owens approach. Or David Terrell. Or Reggie Williams. Or Mike Williams. Or Roy Williams.

So any athlete with a chiseled physique that works hard can become a top 5 reciever all time stats wise if he trains a lot?

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Owens isn't liked for a ton of reasons but his work ethic is unquestionable.

One could consider the mental aspect of dedication and personal drive as a form of talent. This guy was working out when taking interviews :roll:

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So any athlete with a chiseled physique that works hard can become a top 5 reciever all time stats wise if he trains a lot?

 

You have to work ridiculously hard to get the physique Owens has. Find a 6'2"+ WR and I'd say most of them could do what Owens did if they had his attitude.

 

This is Owens:

 

terrellowensturns37.png

 

This is Eric Decker:

 

ericdecker4-e1283832852650.jpg

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Ok so a 6'2 fitness magazine model cou l d easily be a hall of famer. Your still a moron.

I hope you make this same "talent arguement" when Peyton Manning makes the Hall of Fame. He had a not so special arm and little athletic talent.

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I just love how the OP once knew some black kids who played sports and drank, thus disproving the fact that millions of kids over the last three decades have ever existed.

The total gym rats my boys were and hung out with must have been secret alchies. The two guys my daughters dated, one who now owns three gyms? Must be a heroine addict.

The college coach who lived next door to my brother in law's farm, who built his three boys a gym in his barn, had tackling dummies, blocking sleds and tire runs in his yard? Probably did tons of coke with them while hunting, the only hobby besides working out they had.

Biggest.

Troll.

Ever.

One day, and I'm done feeding this one.

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Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. What you are saying is complete BS, but you actually have the audacity to think you can talk your way into something legitimate. Really amusing to see it in action.

As someone who owns several books written by scouts with actual scouting reports in them, I know what terms do and do not exist in NFL scouting. There isn't a scouting report on the face of the earth (by an actual scout and not some blogger) talking about a receiver "reading the ball." And "spatial awareness," as you call it (usually referred to as "vision") is a make-believe buzzword for people who can't explain why a player with limited ability is having success.

Usually, it's a polite way of avoiding saying a player is a product of a system and his numbers don't actually come from his own talent.

"knowing without looking where the sideline is, 1st down or goal line."

Uh, what? Where do you get the idea that Owens could find any line, with or without looking? Owens was NEVER known as a great boundary receiver. Did you confuse him for Cris Carter? He was never one to drag his toes at the back or corner of the end zone or before going out of bounds. He was clumsy and uncoordinated.

Owens didn't make defenders miss, he broke tackles simply by being heavier than the smaller DBs. And he was heavier than them because he dedicated his life to gaining weight. He left high school 175 pounds. He left college 213 pounds. By 2001, he was 226 pounds. There aren't many 226+ pound defensive backs, and there certainly weren't when he was putting up the big numbers.

He'd run basic straight line/soft angle routes and most of the time when he got open, it was the result of the scheme getting him open thanks to the route designs. He played in good systems his whole career until Buffalo (where he not coincidentally failed to produce). But then his combination of size/weight and determination took over and he overpowered guys trying to tackle him to make 7 yard catches into big plays.

That's not talent. That's the product of hard work. Jon Gruden basically said he was like Shaq. But Shaq didn't get his size and power by being some kind of workaholic, he was just born with freakish size.

And then he'd mix in the odd deep ball, which he'd get open on through pure understanding of the game as a result of listening to his coaches. He's dumb as a box of rocks, but that's an advantage for most types of athletes. Look at Mike Tyson. He was a student of boxing technique before he went off the rails, and it was because he wasn't about to question Cus D'Amato.

And notice, Owens got better and better at the deep ball as he got older. He had the best yards/catch average of his career in 2007 with Dallas, age 34. Now why do you think that is? Could it be that his performance was directly tied to learning technique and the ability to read coverages and make adjustments as a result through his hard work and experience, and not his talent?

"And get out of the trailor park. Yes, over the last twenty-thirty years, millions of kids have worked out as hard or harder than TO, eaten clean and not drugged or drank, and washed out of their sport of choice"

Actually, I went to a high school that was more than a quarter black. Tons and tons of athletes. All of them drank, most of them smoked weed. That's a pretty big sample size.

A few of them even made it to the NFL.

You don't see many high school or college athletes willing to sacrifice drinking, partying, etc. You don't see that in the NFL very often, either. You're not living in the real world if you actually think it's common to find people as determined as Owens was.

so kobe bryant had no talent? Cause he sacrificed all those things and out worked everybody to get stronger. And not everybody has the "talent" to get the body Owens had

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I just love how the OP once knew some black kids who played sports and drank, thus disproving the fact that millions of kids over the last three decades have ever existed.

The total gym rats my boys were and hung out with must have been secret alchies. The two guys my daughters dated, one who now owns three gyms? Must be a heroine addict.

The college coach who lived next door to my brother in law's farm, who built his three boys a gym in his barn, had tackling dummies, blocking sleds and tire runs in his yard? Probably did tons of coke with them while hunting, the only hobby besides working out they had.

Biggest.

Troll.

Ever.

One day, and I'm done feeding this one.

 

 

Of course, you resort to using vague anecdotal examples completely lacking in any compatible comparison. How tall were these kids you speak of? What position did they play? What college did they go to? Were they working out and eating properly, as Owens was, or doing it wrong like 99% of the people who try?

 

Also, what's a "heroine" addict? A female addict the audience is supposed to root for?

 

If you're going to call me a troll, try not to sound like such a moron.

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