BillySims

Why do people consider Terrell Owens so "talented?"

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Let's see an example. He could get open deep by getting a great release at the line of scrimmage and shoving the corner aside to give him a huge head start, but I don't remember him really ever running past or away from someone. And as soon as he got into the open field and was being chased, he'd have to zig zag to try to keep defenders from chasing him down.

So you admit you never watched him.

Dumbest.

Troll.

Ever.

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So where does the weird obsession with Owens come from anyway?

Well? Every topic you have posted in on this board except 1 is related to Owens? Did he violate you or something?

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One things for sure... Terrell Owens was one of the most talented wide receivers of the modern era. And that is a fact!

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Let's see an example of Owens out-running a corner.

1,078 receptions for 15,934 yards and 153 touchdowns.

Let's see an example. He could get open deep by getting a great release at the line of scrimmage and shoving the corner aside to give him a huge head start, but I don't remember him really ever running past or away from someone. And as soon as he got into the open field and was being chased, he'd have to zig zag to try to keep defenders from chasing him down.

1,078 receptions for 15,934 yards and 153 touchdowns.

Secretaries, accountants, coaches, and training staff aren't "one general manager," "a long-time NFL team personnel executive," and "a prominent team executive." There's that reading comprehension thing we talked about earlier.

Again, what do they gain from telling a sports writer that they never thought Owens was that talented or good? What does that do for them? If they're angry at him for something as silly as undoing a trade they were never expecting to be able to do in the first place (because had his agent submitted the paperwork on time, he was going to be an unrestricted free agent), how is it cathartic to anonymously tell Jason Cole a bunch of bad things about his talent/ability? And if they're doing it to sabotage him, how does that work? Do you think NFL General Managers/personnel evaluators are going to go to Yahoo, see a Jason Cole article, see an anonymous executive saying he doesn't think Owens is that talented/good, and change his mind about signing him? You think that's how it works?

Jesus.

And it's ironic how you talk about not believing anonymous sources, when the only issue he ever had in Dallas was based on nothing but an anonymous source (in an article written by Ed Werder). That whole Romo/Witten thing that seemed to spell the end of his time in Dallas - Owens never uttered a word of that. It was said by an anonymous source that that was what Owens privately thought, and ESPN went to town.

My guess is you weren't dismissing that story at the time...because when it suits your agenda, it's just fine, right?

1,078 receptions for 15,934 yards and 153 touchdowns.

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Let's see an example. He could get open deep by getting a great release at the line of scrimmage and shoving the corner aside to give him a huge head start, but I don't remember him really ever running past or away from someone. And as soon as he got into the open field and was being chased, he'd have to zig zag to try to keep defenders from chasing him down.

 

lol yes you are so right.  Watching him in the open field was like watching someone play tecmo bowl as he zig zagged from sideline to sideline to keep the defenders missing as they dove at him.  

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Here is a 36, I repeat, 36 year old Terrell Owens burning a corner for a 98 yard TD.  No press coverage. No release at the LOS. Just a straight up foot race.

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That's fine. I never claimed Brackenridge to be fast. But a 36 year old Owens beat him by at least 2 steps in 40 yards. Again. 36 years old.

Seriously if you need an example of Owens out running a corner, I'm just going to assume you've never actually seen him play and that you missed the 2004 and 2005 seasons.

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I was hoping you would mention that.

The corner who was lining up against him was a player named Tyron Brackenridge. Guess what Brackenridge ran in the 40-yard dash? 4.74. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=67710&draftyear=2007&genpos=CB

Literally the slowest corner in professional football.

Again why is every single post of yours about Terrell Owens

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I was hoping you would mention that.

The corner who was lining up against him was a player named Tyron Brackenridge. Guess what Brackenridge ran in the 40-yard dash? 4.74. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=67710&draftyear=2007&genpos=CB

Literally the slowest corner in professional football.

So you're admitting you lied about a 22yo Owens only being able to run a 4.7 40.

No way a 36yo who's top speed was 4.7 in his prime gets an inch of seperation on a db who can run a 4.7 40.

Since you now admit you lied about that, don't you think it's time you start admitting the rest of your lies? Starting with the lie that the 2nd most talented wr in league history, "had no talent"?

Dumbest.

Troll.

Ever.

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Uh, what? Did you not see the part where TERRELL OWENS HIMSELF said he ran a 4.63, which in those days was on handheld stopwatches and meant he ran at least a tenth of a second slower than that?

 

And where do you get the idea that a guy who runs 4.7 can't separate from another guy who runs 4.7? That's what technique/knowledge of the game is for. The corner and receiver don't start out from the same spot on the field running in a straight sprint. This is where the master students of the game like Owens sometimes find a way to compensate. Aside from beating guys with their release, they become masters of deception and get the corner to stumble out of his back pedal. There's no replay of this play, but it looks like Owens may have made a subtle double move. And it doesn't take much in this regard, since he's going against a guy as slow as he was who wouldn't be able to close any ground.

 

I mean, I could show you Jerry Rice with a step deep on Darrell Green in 1988. I guess that must mean Rice ran no worse than 4.2! 

 

2nd most talented wide receiver in league history? Jesus Christ. Every year there are numerous more talented receivers coming into the league than Terrell Owens. Every single year.

 

Let's just keep it to guys with similar size.

 

Remember Tyrone Calico? Probably not, because he never amounted to anything. 6'4" 223 pounds, 4.34 40-yard dash, 38 inch vertical leap.

 

How about Reggie Williams? Andre Johnson? Kelley Washington? David Terrell? Javon Walker? Roy Williams? Braylon Edwards? Demaryius Thomas? Julio Jones? Kevin White?

 

Do I even need to mention Calvin Johnson, since I assume you think Moss was #1 in talent (which would probably be about the only reasonable thing you think)?

 

Just ridiculous. You actually believe the 2nd most talented receiver in NFL history went 89th in his own draft class and was the 12th man taken as his own position. The 2nd most talented receiver in history and he had a 4.63 40 hand held, 33 inch vertical, and scouts said he's slow out of his breaks/lacks agility/performs poorly in 3 cone drills. Oh, and he was in the Top 5 in the NFL in drops 8 times.

 

All of this despite being acknowledged by his peers as the hardest working player in the game.

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So Tom Brady is talentless because he went in the 6th round. F sakes you get dumber every post.

Owens straight blew by the guy in a simple foot race. Because that speed was just one of his enormous talents.

Dumbest.

Troll.

Ever.

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I don't know what's worse, someone claiming that TO wasn't talented and that he was "slow as molasses", or the people who are such big fans of Owens that they think he can still play in the NFL today.

Both positions not based in reality. Just at opposite ends of the spectrum.

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So Tom Brady is talentless because he went in the 6th round. F sakes you get dumber every post.

Owens straight blew by the guy in a simple foot race. Because that speed was just one of his enormous talents.

Dumbest.

Troll.

Ever.

 

More of that pathetic straw man crap. I haven't accused anyone of being "talentless" once...except maybe you.

 

Why do you think Tom Brady is successful? Because of his Brett Favre arm strength? His Michael Vick speed?

 

Or might it have to do with his intelligence, dedication to film study, outstanding passing mechanics that he worked on tirelessly, toughness, pocket presence/poise, etc.?

 

I mean, you're just all over the place.

 

He didn't straight blow by the guy, he just got behind him...a guy who ran 4.74 in the 40. And then he broke the tackle after the catch (because he didn't beat him badly enough to make it so he wasn't still within striking distance for the tackle).

 

Oh, and by the way - why is it that you're the only person in history who ever said anything about Owens "reading the ball?" Why is it that when coaches and other players are asked about Owens, the only things they mention are:

 

1. His work ethic

 

and

 

2. His size and strength

 

?

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More of that pathetic straw man crap. I haven't accused anyone of being "talentless" once...except maybe you.

 

Why do you think Tom Brady is successful? Because of his Brett Favre arm strength? His Michael Vick speed?

 

Or might it have to do with his intelligence, dedication to film study, outstanding passing mechanics that he worked on tirelessly, toughness, pocket presence/poise, etc.?

 

I mean, you're just all over the place.

 

He didn't straight blow by the guy, he just got behind him...a guy who ran 4.74 in the 40. And then he broke the tackle after the catch (because he didn't beat him badly enough to make it so he wasn't still within striking distance for the tackle).

 

Oh, and by the way - why is it that you're the only person in history who ever said anything about Owens "reading the ball?" Why is it that when coaches and other players are asked about Owens, the only things they mention are:

 

1. His work ethic

 

and

 

2. His size and strength

 

?

You were the one who briught up draft position as a measure of talent, not me. I can't help it if you don't understand the ramifications of your own words. You are claiming Brady as talentless(and try Brady's accuracy as his talent dummy).

And if you honestly believe I'm the 1st guy to talk about "tracking a ball", you're too much of a football neophyte to discuss anything about the game.

Dumbest.

Troll.

Ever.

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He anchored the track team in college to an NCAA championship and had a chance to play for the basketball team in the ncaa championship. But, yeah completely talentless. Even says in one of his bios 49ers drafted him for his size and wait for it....... SPEED

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No, it's nothing like that whatsoever. Speed is speed.

 

Success in a sport such as football is about a variety of different abilities, which are what determines whether someone is talented or not.

 

Speed, agility, hand-eye-coordination, leaping ability. Owens was 0 for 4 in those attributes.

 

Metrics evaluate talent. But talent is only one part of the equation. Work ethic and intangibles are the other. Owens had the latter and not the former. That's the point of this thread.

OK, I get it.  You want to make a statement  about TO's weak metrics.  OK, that makes sense.  There really can be no argument about that.  The metrics that the NFL uses to evaluate talent, which tends to be about 30% accurate, TO falls short on.  I can agree with that statement.

 

The talent TO had is indisputable.  The mf'er was gifted and talented and his career proves that.  TO is a perfect example on how foolish it is to rate a player on metrics.  Metrics is clearly a poor indicator of talent.  How many players have been drafted that have absolutely crushed the metrics and failed in the NFL?  Too many to count.

 

Other than only being able to predict success 30% of the time, it has the ability to completely shortchange obvious talents such as TO, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Wes Welker, Antonio Gates, Jason Peters, John Randle, etc. 

 

I think what the OP meant to say is that TO was not someone who was talented at performing the metrics that the NFL uses to decide if someone is talented.  (which happens to be accurate 30% of the time)  TO is undoubtedly talented, and no matter how someone views him as a person, to dispute his talents is foolish since it can be supported by indisputable facts where as arguing against it is simply backed up with some rating system that is accurate less than 1 time out of 3.

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Here's TO beating Ronde and Tiki Barber in the 100 yard dash 

 

9.02 on a 100 yard race on what clearly is not a rubber track.  Even with that being an "unofficial" time...that's fast.

 

"slow as molasses" lol yeah ok....  

 

It truly is amazing that a guy who is slow as molasses, who has bad hands, who can't jump, who has no speed or agility, could somehow be 2nd all time in yards, 3rd all time in touchdowns, and 6th all time in catches.   I guess all TO did was catch screen passes and then run straight through 11 tacklers on his way to the endzone....

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Here's TO beating Ronde and Tiki Barber in the 100 yard dash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KWFR4qYwmE

9.02 on a 100 yard race on what clearly is not a rubber track. Even with that being an "unofficial" time...that's fast.

"slow as molasses" lol yeah ok....

It truly is amazing that a guy who is slow as molasses, who has bad hands, who can't jump, who has no speed or agility, could somehow be 2nd all time in yards, 3rd all time in touchdowns, and 6th all time in catches. I guess all TO did was catch screen passes and then run straight through 11 tacklers on his way to the endzone....

exactly, I guess a guy who anchored his track team to a national track team is there just cause he worked hard and not because he was fast

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You were the one who briught up draft position as a measure of talent, not me. I can't help it if you don't understand the ramifications of your own words. You are claiming Brady as talentless(and try Brady's accuracy as his talent dummy).

And if you honestly believe I'm the 1st guy to talk about "tracking a ball", you're too much of a football neophyte to discuss anything about the game.

Dumbest.

Troll.

Ever.

 

"You are claiming Brady as talentless." Where have I used the word, "talentless," other than to point out how you are apparently incapable of arguing without resorting to strawman?

 

No, I am saying that all-time great talent doesn't fall so far in the draft, unless there are extenuating circumstances (such as off field issues, or in the case of, say, Antonio Gates, not even playing college football).

 

Tom Brady isn't an all-time great talent. He's a perfect example of what work ethic can do for a player. And he's a quarterback - a position where pure throwing talent isn't what makes or breaks you.

 

No scout would ever tell you that Brady is more talented than Jeff George was. But George was a bonehead and hard to coach. Brady is a fierce competitor, a workaholic, and has great football intelligence.

 

And no, Brady isn't the most accurate QB in the league, either. He'd never win an accuracy competition among QBs. He's not Drew Brees.

 

And yes, you are probably the first person in history to ever talk about a receiver "reading the ball." That term does not exist. More importantly, it has certainly never been said of Terrell Owens.

 

Tons and tons of NFL people have talked about Terrell Owens and never said anything about him tracking the ball. Coaches, players, anonymous scouts, etc. All you ever hear about are his size and strength, and his work ethic/competitiveness.

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OK, I get it.  You want to make a statement  about TO's weak metrics.  OK, that makes sense.  There really can be no argument about that.  The metrics that the NFL uses to evaluate talent, which tends to be about 30% accurate, TO falls short on.  I can agree with that statement.

 

The talent TO had is indisputable.  The mf'er was gifted and talented and his career proves that.  TO is a perfect example on how foolish it is to rate a player on metrics.  Metrics is clearly a poor indicator of talent.  How many players have been drafted that have absolutely crushed the metrics and failed in the NFL?  Too many to count.

 

Other than only being able to predict success 30% of the time, it has the ability to completely shortchange obvious talents such as TO, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Wes Welker, Antonio Gates, Jason Peters, John Randle, etc. 

 

I think what the OP meant to say is that TO was not someone who was talented at performing the metrics that the NFL uses to decide if someone is talented.  (which happens to be accurate 30% of the time)  TO is undoubtedly talented, and no matter how someone views him as a person, to dispute his talents is foolish since it can be supported by indisputable facts where as arguing against it is simply backed up with some rating system that is accurate less than 1 time out of 3.

 

The problem is you simply don't understand what the word "talent" means. Talent is a natural ability to do something. Relative to his peers, Owens didn't have great natural talent. He out-worked them to compensate, while many of them squandered their talent.

 

Everything Owens did well on the field was the product of his unparalleled work ethic (along with being born with the tall gene). None of that is talent. Height isn't an innate ability, and he is not naturally a strong guy. He's not naturally smart, either - he's a slow-witted country bumpkin who can't even articulate a proper sentence. But he worked relentlessly, and while you can say that's an innate personality characteristic, claiming that as "talent" is antithetical to the definition of talent. Maybe working hard comes naturally to him, but working hard is still a choice and everybody has the ability. Being athletic is not.

 

You seem to be arguing that talent is somehow synonymous with successful. It isn't. That's not what the word means.

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Here's TO beating Ronde and Tiki Barber in the 100 yard dash 

 

9.02 on a 100 yard race on what clearly is not a rubber track.  Even with that being an "unofficial" time...that's fast.

 

"slow as molasses" lol yeah ok....  

 

It truly is amazing that a guy who is slow as molasses, who has bad hands, who can't jump, who has no speed or agility, could somehow be 2nd all time in yards, 3rd all time in touchdowns, and 6th all time in catches.   I guess all TO did was catch screen passes and then run straight through 11 tacklers on his way to the endzone....

 

I just timed it myself and got 10.1. That's terrible for 100 yards. Would be about 11 seconds for 100 meters.

 

Let's see, who is in that race. Tiki and Ronde Barber, who were notoriously slow. Brian Urlacher. Actually, the surprising thing about that is that Urlacher didn't beat the Barbers...but I guess he's not as fast over longer distances.

 

Regardless, nobody ever runs 100 yards on a football field and Owens was behind until the last stretch of that race. Maybe Owens is respectable as a longer distance runner, but that is pretty much irrelevant on a football field. When's the last time you've seen a deep ball completed 70+ yards down field?

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