BillySims

Why do people consider Terrell Owens so "talented?"

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Your crazy if you don't think TO was that talented. He was drafted in the 3rd round as a small school prospect based purely on upside. That was his draft profile - boom or bust raw athlete.

Owens had good, but not great speed. Combine numbers don't exist, but he supposedly ran a 4.4 flat.

He didn't, though. His combine times were in the 4.6-4.7 range. He wasn't considered a "raw athlete" at all. He was a kid with a lot of guts - he ran the 40 at his pro day with such determination that he busted through some chained doors and wound up panting in the rain. The only team whose scouts were even at his workout was the Green Bay Packers. The 49ers probably took him because all the receivers they had in mind were off the board and he was just the best guy left on their draft board, and they got lucky. He was inches away from slipping to day 2 of the draft. He was an all-conference player 3 years in a row. That's not "boom or bust."

His best physical attribute was his physical strength. The guy was an absolute bull. And he could run... not Desean Jackson obviously, but guys his size shouldn't be able to run like he did - not just in a straight line, but he had quick feet and excellent balance to go along with the strength and speed.

His "physical strength" only translates into a 260 pound max bench press, which isn't special. That's after tons of working out, too. If his strength after all that working out is rather unremarkable, it's safe to say his natural strength is below average. He's no bull, either. An offensive coordinator of his criticized him for being a "chicken" over the middle (which you can read about in a Clark Judge article). He's a finesse player with terrible workout numbers. An unbelievable overachiever. He gets by on technique and feel for the game, as he lacks the speed, strength, hands, agility, leaping ability, and explosiveness to beat people with raw ability.

Seriously, have you people seen the guy play? Not just in the past few years, but with the 9ers? They used to give him end arounds, and he'd routinely break tackles after the catch and take it to the house. A superb talent. Not in the same league as Randy Moss or Calvin Johnson, but easily an "elite" raw physical talent.

He had 2 rushing touchdowns in San Francisco. That's "routine" in your book? Jerry Rice had 10.

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Nobody ever said Owens isn't talented. That's your problem. You guys keep knocking down straw men.

Relative to his peers, Owens was not a great talent. There have been hundreds of more talented receivers to enter the NFL than Owens.

Same with Rice.

relative to his peers he was the 2nd best WR. Ever.

Relative to your peers, you're an idiot. Your peers are down syndrome laden 3 year olds.

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relative to his peers he was the 2nd best WR. Ever.

Relative to your peers, you're an idiot. Your peers are down syndrome laden 3 year olds.

You think he's the second greatest WR in history? I'm a fan of his, but I don't even think that. There is no way a guy with hands that bad and routes that mediocre is the second greatest WR to ever play the game.

As great as he was, I'd still rather have Michael Irvin. I'd still rather have Tim Brown. I'd rather have James Lofton. And Randy Moss was better when he didn't dog it, too.

I'm sure Don Hutson would have something to say about Owens being the second greatest WR ever, too.

You're clearly one of those myopic younger fans who thinks all the greatest in everything are ones you've seen. Or, you're just going off the career numbers, and don't even understand the premise of this thread. My bet is it's a mix of both.

All you have are insults. And the reason you're resorting to them is you don't actually have any argument, and it's upsetting you.

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Mods get off of your lazy arses and lock this, to hell with the moronic imbeciles in WU, this guy thinks T.O. is a bad receiver because he ran a 4.7 at the combine!

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Mods get off of your lazy arses and lock this, to hell with the moronic imbeciles in WU, this guy thinks T.O. is a bad receiver because he ran a 4.7 at the combine!

Yet more straw man.

Seriously, is no one actually able to address my arguments?

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Players who play against Owens (read: defensive backs) have credibility. Sports writers don't. Any imbecile can be a sports writer. They don't get paid to have a clue what they're talking about, they get paid to write.

The evidence of my claim:

1. Owens has bad hands

2. Owens runs mediocre routes

3. Owens runs in the 4.6-4.7 range

4. Owens leaped only 33 inches coming out

5. Owens's max bench press is 260 pounds

6. Owens was drafted in the late 3rd round, the 12th receiver taken in said draft

7. Numerous scouts and at least one General Manager have said he's not all he's cracked up to be as a football player, noting everything I've said.

8. Numerous defensive backs, including Darrelle Revis and Dwight Smith, came away thoroughly unimpressed after facing him.

and yet hes one of the best in nfl history you dont get to that point with out talent

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and yet hes one of the best in nfl history you dont get to that point with out talent

Nobody said he doesn't have talent. He just doesn't have a whole lot of it for an NFL wide receiver. You do get to that point when you are brilliant at compensating for a lack of talent and you work your tail off to develop physical abilities that aren't natural to you.

Nothing Owens does is natural. It's painful watching him play football...really an eyesore, to be perfectly honest. He's a scrappy player, and I enjoy that.

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Yet more straw man.

Seriously, is no one actually able to address my arguments?

like you're not aware that you ignore it.

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like you're not aware that you ignore it.

Nobody has addressed anything I've actually said. You/they're knocking down straw men ("How could Owens do this if he's not talented?"), throwing around personal insults, and regurgitating numbers, which are irrelevant in a discussion about talent.

The only valid point anyone ever made in this thread was Owens supposedly running 4.45 for the Seahawks, but that can easily be shown to be a BS time based on how inaccurately fast stopwatch times have been shown to be over the years and the fact that there is no way a 38-year-old coming off knee surgery is going to be faster than a healthy 22-year-old version of himself, who timed in the 4.6-4.7 range.

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Nobody has addressed anything I've actually said. You/they're knocking down straw men ("How could Owens do this if he's not talented?"), throwing around personal insults, and regurgitating numbers, which are irrelevant in a discussion about talent.

The only valid point anyone ever made in this thread was Owens supposedly running 4.45 for the Seahawks, but that can easily be shown to be a BS time based on how inaccurately fast stopwatch times have been shown to be over the years and the fact that there is no way a 38-year-old coming off knee surgery is going to be faster than a healthy 22-year-old version of himself, who timed in the 4.6-4.7 range.

Talent is not only measured in 40 times and what you perceive to be fluid form.

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Nobody has addressed anything I've actually said. You/they're knocking down straw men ("How could Owens do this if he's not talented?"), throwing around personal insults, and regurgitating numbers, which are irrelevant in a discussion about talent.

The only valid point anyone ever made in this thread was Owens supposedly running 4.45 for the Seahawks, but that can easily be shown to be a BS time based on how inaccurately fast stopwatch times have been shown to be over the years and the fact that there is no way a 38-year-old coming off knee surgery is going to be faster than a healthy 22-year-old version of himself, who timed in the 4.6-4.7 range.

you have not brought up any legit arguments either you are just spewing out bull**** and something one player said with no proof to back you up

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Nobody has addressed anything I've actually said. You/they're knocking down straw men ("How could Owens do this if he's not talented?"), throwing around personal insults, and regurgitating numbers, which are irrelevant in a discussion about talent.

The only valid point anyone ever made in this thread was Owens supposedly running 4.45 for the Seahawks, but that can easily be shown to be a BS time based on how inaccurately fast stopwatch times have been shown to be over the years and the fact that there is no way a 38-year-old coming off knee surgery is going to be faster than a healthy 22-year-old version of himself, who timed in the 4.6-4.7 range.

just remarkable

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Talent is not only measured in 40 times and what you perceive to be fluid form.

There isn't a scout in the league who would disagree with me. The people who are actually counted on to make decisions would agree with everything I've said in this thread.

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There isn't a scout in the league who would disagree with me. The people who are actually counted on to make decisions would agree with everything I've said in this thread.

or so you assume

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He didn't, though. His combine times were in the 4.6-4.7 range. He wasn't considered a "raw athlete" at all. He was a kid with a lot of guts - he ran the 40 at his pro day with such determination that he busted through some chained doors and wound up panting in the rain. The only team whose scouts were even at his workout was the Green Bay Packers. The 49ers probably took him because all the receivers they had in mind were off the board and he was just the best guy left on their draft board, and they got lucky. He was inches away from slipping to day 2 of the draft. He was an all-conference player 3 years in a row. That's not "boom or bust."

His "physical strength" only translates into a 260 pound max bench press, which isn't special. That's after tons of working out, too. If his strength after all that working out is rather unremarkable, it's safe to say his natural strength is below average. He's no bull, either. An offensive coordinator of his criticized him for being a "chicken" over the middle (which you can read about in a Clark Judge article). He's a finesse player with terrible workout numbers. An unbelievable overachiever. He gets by on technique and feel for the game, as he lacks the speed, strength, hands, agility, leaping ability, and explosiveness to beat people with raw ability.

He had 2 rushing touchdowns in San Francisco. That's "routine" in your book? Jerry Rice had 10.

You really have no clue what you're talking about.

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There isn't a scout in the league who would disagree with me. The people who are actually counted on to make decisions would agree with everything I've said in this thread.

And you know this because you've spoken with every scout in the league?

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Owens is showing how talented he is with his inability to catch the football right now.

The guy is in the best shape of his life by all accounts, yet he won't even make the freak'n Seahawks when his job is actually up for grabs.

That ought to tell you something about his "talent." It really should. In all likelihood, if he'd been forced to compete for his job on prior teams, he would've been out of the NFL many years ago.

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Owens is showing how talented he is with his inability to catch the football right now.

The guy is in the best shape of his life by all accounts, yet he won't even make the freak'n Seahawks when his job is actually up for grabs.

That ought to tell you something about his "talent." It really should. In all likelihood, if he'd been forced to compete for his job on prior teams, he would've been out of the NFL many years ago.

lets see you play football at 38 years old

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Epic fail thread. TO will go down as one of the best wr of all time..

Shiooit that was a fluke for sure! The level of ignorance is astounding... of course towards anyone who agrees to what this fool says.

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Gee I dunno. 1078 receptions 15,934 Yards and 153 TDs maybe? The guy may be a first class arsehat, but you don't get those numbers without talent.

You could've closed the thread after this post.^^^^

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He is old now, he was VERY talented, one of the best of all time.

What did he lose that he had when he was very talented? He's got the same physique he always had (which isn't a talent - his physique comes purely from hard work).

Hands? His hands were always terrible.

Routes/agility? His routes/agility were always mediocre.

Speed? His speed was always well below average. Players and coaches on the Seahawks claimed he's faster now (which I think is silly...they're basing it on what was clearly an absolutely bogus hand held 40 time they got on him). But he certainly hasn't lost any of his well below average speed with age, either.

Strength? He has all the same muscles he had when he was younger, I would venture to say. He was never a power receiver to begin with, despite the physique. 260 pound max bench press.

That's not earth shattering.

Leaping ability? He was never a great leaper.

So what's left?

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What did he lose that he had when he was very talented? He's got the same physique he always had (which isn't a talent - his physique comes purely from hard work).

Hands? His hands were always terrible.

Routes/agility? His routes/agility were always mediocre.

Speed? His speed was always well below average. Players and coaches on the Seahawks claimed he's faster now (which I think is silly...they're basing it on what was clearly an absolutely bogus hand held 40 time they got on him). But he certainly hasn't lost any of his well below average speed with age, either.

Strength? He has all the same muscles he had when he was younger, I would venture to say. He was never a power receiver to begin with, despite the physique. 260 pound max bench press.

That's not earth shattering.

Leaping ability? He was never a great leaper.

So what's left?

You're an idiot.

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