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Ongoing Derek Carr Thread

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You making my point for me? Every tandem you named has a Qb of 4th year or more except the Texans. The Texans are just an awful one man offense with Deandre Hopkins. Many of the ones you named have a rb or TE sprinkled in among the team leaders. The Raiders have 2 Wr's with more than double the rec of any TE or back.

Your point is irrelevant. We all think Carr is a good young qb with potential to be real good. You just don't understand, I'm almost embarrassed for you.

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I'm not saying foles is an elite qb. But he does have enough arm strength, accuracy, and anticipation to attack all parts of the field and complete it.

The problem (or rather, your problem) is you didn't like how some of his passes got to where they got there. So you tried to pick apart and nitpick some of his passes with no understanding of footwork, anticipation, and a few other things.

I mean damn..... Every single pass that you said Foles "can't complete/won't attempt", I have come back and shown a gif of him completing. So it's like...... Wtf are you even talking about?

 

Greg, this is what it comes down to. Do you think it was a mistake for the Eagles to roll with Foles, not trade him and draft Carr in 2013, when you consider that we did the exact same thing a year later, sans getting a player with the youth and ability of a Derek Carr?

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Greg, this is what it comes down to. Do you think it was a mistake for the Eagles to roll with Foles, not trade him and draft Carr in 2013, when you consider that we did the exact same thing a year later, sans getting a player with the youth and ability of a Derek Carr?

Nope. You cant look back with today's facts and say they screwed up.

I still think we should have kept Foles. And Maclin.

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Greg, this is what it comes down to. Do you think it was a mistake for the Eagles to roll with Foles, not trade him and draft Carr in 2013, when you consider that we did the exact same thing a year later, sans getting a player with the youth and ability of a Derek Carr?

too many variables. how would carr do in this offense ? who knows. so far foles was the only one to truly succeed in it. How would carr look throwing to the st Louis receivers vs Amari cooper in Oakland and vice versa? How would mcnabb have looked with wayne and harrisson instead of trash/stinkston and how would manning have looked? who knows peyton has always had elite recievers. the point is there are 11 guys on offense. personally I don't think foles or carr are going to carry an offense with limited skill players like mcnabb did. then again I don't think any qb should have to. I will say if Kelly didn't want foles and McCoy he should have dealt them when their value was at its peak.

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We really screwed up in 2000 when we didn't trade our 3rd round pick to New England for their 6th. We also, in hindsight, should have traded Atlanta for Farve.

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Nope. You cant look back with today's facts and say they screwed up.

I still think we should have kept Foles. And Maclin.

 

 

too many variables. how would carr do in this offense ? who knows. so far foles was the only one to truly succeed in it. How would carr look throwing to the st Louis receivers vs Amari cooper in Oakland and vice versa? How would mcnabb have looked with wayne and harrisson instead of trash/stinkston and how would manning have looked? who knows peyton has always had elite recievers. the point is there are 11 guys on offense. personally I don't think foles or carr are going to carry an offense with limited skill players like mcnabb did. then again I don't think any qb should have to. I will say if Kelly didn't want foles and McCoy he should have dealt them when their value was at its peak.

 

We didn't draft a QB because we(and by we, I mean y'all) were so convinced that Foles was better than the alternatives in the draft. As it stands, Foles is well on his way to joining the long list of QBs that had one fluky season and just as quickly returned back to the mean.

 

 

 

"You have to take the best player and you have to build your team for the long term and look at the draft as long-term decisions for your franchise and for your football team," Roseman explained. "[You] don't want to force a position and you don't want to not take a position just because of what you have at the moment and I think, for us, when you look at the difficulty of getting good players in the draft, it becomes increasingly difficult when you narrow it down to a particular position that you have to get, not taking into account the strength of the draft."  Read more: http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/eagles-nfl-draft-2014/2014/2/20/5430044/2014-nfl-draft-howie-roseman-talks-draft-strategy-team-building

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Greg, this is what it comes down to. Do you think it was a mistake for the Eagles to roll with Foles, not trade him and draft Carr in 2013, when you consider that we did the exact same thing a year later, sans getting a player with the youth and ability of a Derek Carr?

If there was a gun to my head, I would say no. The eagles were 6-2 led by foles before he was injured. Without foles, they've been pretty average. With him at the helm, 14-4.

Also, this season isn't over yet. Bradford could go on a run and start putting together back-to-back good games.

Also, if the eagles drafted Carr and he performed like he did his rookie year (ie, look like crap for the most part) the eagles would not have had a 10-6 season. It would've been substantially worse (6-10 at best). Would lurie have then given chip the keys to the franchise then to gut a lot of the team? Hell..... Would lurie even have approved trading foles? What if chip/roseman had simply drafted Carr and not traded foles. Then it would've looked like

Foles

Sanchez

Carr

Or

Foles

Barkley/Carr

Maybe the eagles are able to get Mathews and maxwell in FA. But no way are they getting Murray without Bradford. So Murray might go back to Dallas. Then they would definitely be better than the eagles. Their run game would be back to beasting. Romo probably won't get hurt and then they sweep us. Might be 7-1, 6-2 right now.

With Carr, do the eagles now overpay to keep maclin? Do the eagles continue to run the zone read (they don't do it with Bradford)?

Without a gun to my head, I'd say it's nearly impossible to say the eagles are better. Especially since I've actually watched the raiders and haven't really been impressed by Carr. What I always wanted for him was to sit a year and get his footwork stable. The raiders just threw him out there and they got an 0-10 start because of it.

Now jack del rio is the coach and he knows jack about developing qbs. And it shows as nothing has improved with Carr. He's just throwing the same passes to guys who are killing it with the YAC.

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We didn't draft a QB because we(and by we, I mean y'all) were so convinced that Foles was better than the alternatives in the draft. As it stands, Foles is well on his way to joining the long list of QBs that had one fluky season and just as quickly returned back to the mean.

Let me get this straight. Chip and Howie didn't draft a QB because some fans on the official team message board were convinced Foles was better than what was in the draft?

Or are you suggesting the fans of this message board were actually running the draft last year?

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Let me get this straight. Chip and Howie didn't draft a QB because some fans on the official team message board were convinced Foles was better than what was in the draft?

Or are you suggesting the fans of this message board were actually running the draft last year?

 

I, for one, apologize for not drafting Derek Carr.  Please stop throwing it in my face.

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Let me get this straight. Chip and Howie didn't draft a QB because some fans on the official team message board were convinced Foles was better than what was in the draft?

Or are you suggesting the fans of this message board were actually running the draft last year?

 

Just because you weren't on the driver's seat doesn't absolve you from thinking that Foles was anything more than a fluke. As great as his production was, why exactly were fans clamoring to anoint him the franchise QB? Because of the numbers? Listen what we've just experienced shows how fickle the NFL is when the production is gone and there isn't a skill set to fall back on. Once the production is gone, there's nothing to engender optimism that they will turn it back on. Nothing, nada, zilch!

 

In Carr we had a guy that, in almost every metric, is better than Foles. Foles can take a licking with the best of them, but unfortunately for him we don't draft QBs based on the kind of hits they can absorb. There is no equivocation about it we passed on drafting a QB because we had Foles. Foles!!! 

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We didn't draft a QB because we(and by we, I mean y'all) were so convinced that Foles was better than the alternatives in the draft. As it stands, Foles is well on his way to joining the long list of QBs that had one fluky season and just as quickly returned back to the mean.

So, now that we've established that the comparison of Rodgers and Carr is invalid. Let's move on to the other outlandish comment that keeps this thread alive.

Do you stand by your assertion that Derek Carr is the 'greatest QB in the history of the NFL draft'? Like I said before, I don't give an ish about page 118, page 34, page 144. I'm asking you right now, on November 11, 2015 (Happy Veterans Day to my fellow Vets).

Do you, on November 11, 2015, still claim that Derek Carr is the "greatest QB in the history of the NFL draft"?

Yes or No?

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We didn't draft a QB because we(and by we, I mean y'all) were so convinced that Foles was better than the alternatives in the draft. As it stands, Foles is well on his way to joining the long list of QBs that had one fluky season and just as quickly returned back to the mean.

how bout this...the only qb chip wanted was Mariota. he couldn't get him. if chip believed in foles why the8 game leash? Way too early to determine foles's future. He's in year one with the rams. They need more playmakers.

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Way too early to determine foles's future.

That was all that most people on this board believed, everyone... well a lot of people, were excited after 2013 but most figured he'd fall back to reality, but most just wanted to see what 'reality' would be for a full 16 games.

As for drafting Carr, he wasn't first round worthy, coming out of college, otherwise he'd have gone in the first round. Every single team, all 32 of them, believed that. The Raiders picked him early in the 2nd round. So the only way for the Eagles to have gotten him would have been to have overreached (according to all 32 teams) and draft him higher than he was worthy of being drafted (according to all 32 NFL teams).

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Crabtree and Cooper, 2 top 10 WRs is the reason that Carr looks like the next montana. Yet they are still only 4-4. Why is this topic 153 pages long? Give any QB great WRs and see what happens.

 

Who cares if Foles is better or worse than derek carr? Both QBs have their own skill sets.

 

Oakland has been a crap team for the past 13 years. their best seasons were 2 8-8 seasons 2010 and 2011 the rest have been 4 wins at best. Thats called a desperate team. They needed to start somewhere, so they took a shot on carr after getting hit hard by russell in 2007. The free agent thing didn't work so they drafted another QB. Then they drafted the top WR the next year and snatched another top 10 pick in crabtree. There is nothing special about carr. He has very good weapons around him. That should help in his development, but to say he is the next great QB is absurd. What carr is, is a young QB oakland is trying to build a team around and see if they can just get a winning record if anything, something they haven't had in 13 years. They are 4-4 at the moment. Due to the weak division they are in...Denver rules that roust, and a very light schedule along the way, there should be no reason under the sun why they don't at the very least grab a Wild card spot. outside of a few teams, the entire afc is weak. only 5 AFC teams have a winning record as of the upcoming week.

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Murray Reece and Rivera = 53 receptions

 

Cooper/Crabtree = 92 rec.

 

This is one of the most WR oriented passing games in the NFL numbnuts. 

 

 

You making my point for me?  

 

You said this is one of the most WR oriented passing games in the NFL, I showed that they are not doing anything that anyone else is not doing.

 

And did you consider that Carr throws to his two leading receivers so much because he does not progress through his reads??

 

Those other teams have receivers with as many catches as the Raiders, but also have more completions to their 3rd receiver as well as backs and TE's because those QB's see the whole field, and progress through reads and throw to their 3rd and 4th options.

 

Also, like I said before more than half the Raiders receiving yards are YAC, because they throw so many short passes.

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We didn't draft a QB because we(and by we, I mean y'all) were so convinced that Foles was better than the alternatives in the draft. As it stands, Foles is well on his way to joining the long list of QBs that had one fluky season and just as quickly returned back to the mean.

 

Stop right there, junior.  The fans don't draft anyone, Chip Kelly did not draft a QB.  Howie Roseman didn't influence him to draft a QB.  The organization was pleased with Foles' 2013 performance as well or else they would have drafted a QB.  Instead they signed Mark Sanchez to be the backup and step in to start if needed.

 

Also, I already quoted you from the other Carr thread saying that given Foles' performance it would be moot to draft a QB.  YOUR WORDS.

 

You can't fault fans for seeing Foles' performance that year and thinking that he deserves to be the starter in 2014 to prove he can be the long term QB.  

 

You liked Carr and wanted him drafted, good for you.  The IWTETG forum is full of guys who want the Eagles to draft certain players but when they don't, these guys don't make it their full-time mission to hype up that player constantly and rip the current Eagles players.  

 

Again, the organization didn't want to draft Carr either.  So quit being so pissy with the fans.  Chip and Howie passed on him, too.  And several other teams could have taken Carr but drafted other QBs instead.  That stuff happens in the draft every year.  Get over it.

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You making my point for me?  Every tandem you named has a Qb of 4th year or more except the Texans.  The Texans are just an awful one man offense with Deandre Hopkins.  Many of the ones you named have a rb or TE sprinkled in among the team leaders.  The Raiders have 2 Wr's with more than double the rec of any TE or back.

 

And based on targets by position, the Raiders rank 8th in the AFC in targets by position.

 

The following teams throw a higher percentage of passes to WR.

 

Jets, Dolphins, Steelers, Colts, Texans, Jaguars and Broncos.

 

NFC numbers coming.

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Just because you weren't on the driver's seat doesn't absolve you from thinking that Foles was anything more than a fluke. As great as his production was, why exactly were fans clamoring to anoint him the franchise QB? Because of the numbers? Listen what we've just experienced shows how fickle the NFL is when the production is gone and there isn't a skill set to fall back on. Once the production is gone, there's nothing to engender optimism that they will turn it back on. Nothing, nada, zilch!

 

In Carr we had a guy that, in almost every metric, is better than Foles. Foles can take a licking with the best of them, but unfortunately for him we don't draft QBs based on the kind of hits they can absorb. There is no equivocation about it we passed on drafting a QB because we had Foles. Foles!!!

Hey numb nuts. I never proclaimed Foles as anything. I said after the 2013 season I needed to see another good season out of him before I made up my mind. I was commenting on your dumbarse claim that Chip and Howie didn't draft Carr because the fans of this message board liked Foles.

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Stop right there, junior.  The fans don't draft anyone, Chip Kelly did not draft a QB.  Howie Roseman didn't influence him to draft a QB.  The organization was pleased with Foles' 2013 performance as well or else they would have drafted a QB.  Instead they signed Mark Sanchez to be the backup and step in to start if needed.

 

Also, I already quoted you from the other Carr thread saying that given Foles' performance it would be moot to draft a QB.  YOUR WORDS.

What I alluded to was an alternative way of thinking about the position. Rather than depend on stats, like a lot of Eagles fans did, I looked at the ability that the individual presents. Moreover, it was to emphasize how much I believed Carr would answer the QB question. Translated, "over here we have a guy that's produced x, but I'm so convinced that this other guy is the answer that I'm willing to plug him in in place of the incumbent."

 

You can't fault fans for seeing Foles' performance that year and thinking that he deserves to be the starter in 2014 to prove he can be the long term QB.

If Carr ever has a year like Foles did, you think the brass @ OAK would trade him for the another QB? He has an ability that not a lot of individuals come out of college with, and whether right or wrong, it will move them to give him second, third chances. Same thing happened with Jay Cutler and Carson Palmer. With Foles, once the production ended you were left with nothing. That's why Chip and the FO were so quick to rid him from the team in spite of what he did the prior year.

 

 

Again, the organization didn't want to draft Carr either.  So quit being so pissy with the fans.  Chip and Howie passed on him, too.  And several other teams could have taken Carr but drafted other QBs instead.  That stuff happens in the draft every year.  Get over it.

You think the Browns fans should be happy that Manziel was drafted over Carr? That's the feeling I'm surprised people haven't already taken up, ostensibly because they feel guilty for believing Foles was anything but a very, very average QB.

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Stop right there, junior. The fans don't draft anyone, Chip Kelly did not draft a QB. Howie Roseman didn't influence him to draft a QB. The organization was pleased with Foles' 2013 performance as well or else they would have drafted a QB. Instead they signed Mark Sanchez to be the backup and step in to start if needed.

Also, I already quoted you from the other Carr thread saying that given Foles' performance it would be moot to draft a QB. YOUR WORDS.

You can't fault fans for seeing Foles' performance that year and thinking that he deserves to be the starter in 2014 to prove he can be the long term QB.

You liked Carr and wanted him drafted, good for you. The IWTETG forum is full of guys who want the Eagles to draft certain players but when they don't, these guys don't make it their full-time mission to hype up that player constantly and rip the current Eagles players.

Again, the organization didn't want to draft Carr either. So quit being so pissy with the fans. Chip and Howie passed on him, too. And several other teams could have taken Carr but drafted other QBs instead. That stuff happens in the draft every year. Get over it.

Reallly what the end game of this thread should be. Hell, I wanted Eric Berry like hell and I'm not up here throwing gifs up every day or touting him as "already being a Lott-like safety coming out of school, except better."

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That was all that most people on this board believed, everyone... well a lot of people, were excited after 2013 but most figured he'd fall back to reality, but most just wanted to see what 'reality' would be for a full 16 games.

As for drafting Carr, he wasn't first round worthy, coming out of college, otherwise he'd have gone in the first round. Every single team, all 32 of them, believed that. The Raiders picked him early in the 2nd round. So the only way for the Eagles to have gotten him would have been to have overreached (according to all 32 teams) and draft him higher than he was worthy of being drafted (according to all 32 NFL teams).

If rstarter was right and Carr goes on to be a Hall of Famer (admittedly my inference, settle down r), then he was smarter than 32 NFL teams' scouting departments and needs to be employed immediately.

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Your point is irrelevant. We all think Carr is a good young qb with potential to be real good. You just don't understand, I'm almost embarrassed for you.

 

 

Nowhere near as embarrased as I am for you guys.  You have been owned.

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