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DaveSpadaro

[News] Can Free Agency Help Bolster O-Line?

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Tamba Hali also just for the record probably has some of the best hands I have ever seen for a pass rusher great at using them so to see him a crafty vet who had double digit sacks Lane rookie year get the better of a rookie here and there(who again was only entering his 3 year playing on the OL) not bad Lane.... Also by the way Tamba only had 1 sack vs the Eagles

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So what now? Crush them for the pick? Or appreciate the indirect way of cutting bait and admitting it hasn’t worked out the way they planned?

 

Do you pound the wall over Eric Fisher — it’s not as if Luke Joeckel has exactly been killing it on the blind side in Jacksonville, to this point — or do you praise the Kansas City Chiefs’ brass for trying something different?

 

Chiefs coach Andy Reid announced that his Week 1 starter at left tackle will be Donald Stephenson, who’s held the job capably since Fisher was injured prior to the second preseason contest against Seattle (Preseason ProFootballFocus.com grades at the position: Fisher, 15 snaps, -0.2; Stephenson, 94 snaps, +1.3). So the quick-take headline Monday was “Fisher loses left tackle job,” and the snap judgment was that 2013’s overall No. 1 pick is officially teetering toward “bust” territory.

 

And not the Canton kind.

 

As to that last assertion, we’ll kindly hold off, at least for now.

 

At 24, Fisher’s made 29 starts and averaged a 7 Approximate Value (AV) score from Pro-Football-Reference.com over his first two NFL seasons.  At 24, Jon Baldwin had made 10 career starts and averaged a 2 AV score. At 24, John Alt, the gold standard on the left side for a generation of Chiefs faithful, had made seven career starts and also averaged a 2 AV. Branden Albert, the man Fisher was drafted to eventually replace, averaged a 6.33 AV over his first three seasons as a pro.

 

Star? Franchise protector? Not yet.

 

But “bust?” We’ll see.

 

Reid insisted — as he’s insisted since, oh, May — that his mission for the 2015 offensive line is to trot out the “best” five, or at least the five that work the best in tandem, Jeff Allen’s wonky knee notwithstanding. Fisher’s move — not a demotion, per se, so much as a move — drew the eyebrow-raising when it was unveiled. But that second-year man Laurent Duvernay-Tardif progressed enough to earn the No. 1 right guard slot over, say, veteran Paul Fanaika or Zach Fulton, who started all 16 contests there a year ago, is another show of faith, if not an outright leap.

 

Big Red contends that Stephenson simply fits better on the left side than the right. The PFF grades to this point don’t disagree: The ex-Sooner logged 282 snaps at left tackle in ’13, grading out at a cumulative -1.5. Fisher logged 1,030 snaps at the position last fall, grading a cumulative -17.5.

 

Now extrapolate Fisher’s 1,030 snaps with Stephenson’s 2013 pace, and the grade projects as a -5.5. Great? Heck, no. But better.

 

A similar pattern emerges when you compare the pair’s recent work at right tackle. Stephenson’s 372 snaps on the right in ’13 and ’14 amounted to a cumulative -14.0 PFF mark. Fisher’s rookie campaign at right tackle in ‘13 graded out to a -21.5 on 811 snaps.

 

Extrapolate Stephenson’s grade out over No. 72’s 811 snaps at right tackle, and things get even uglier: -30.5. Mercy.

 

Sample-size comparisons aren’t perfect, nor are they necessarily absolute. But it does add a little meat to Reid’s roll of the dice. With J.J. Watt on one side of the line and (presumably) Jadeveon Clowney on the other down in Houston, every inch of the pocket figures to have its hands full. 

 

Although this week’s tackle tweak won’t abate the talk-show callers (and hosts) who have doubts about general manager John Dorsey’s track record with first-round selections. Even if Fisher eventually returns to the left side, he’s looked anything but a world-beater there thus far. Outside linebacker Dee Ford, 2014’s first pick, only occasionally saw the field as a rookie and still has a ways to go to supplant 31-year-old Tamba Hali on the depth chart.

 

Your serve, Marcus Peters. Maybe the third time’s the charm.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/chiefs/story/1584075-too-early-to-label-eric-fisher-a-bust

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Cunningham...you have consistently attacked every aspect of Lane game since we drafted him making him out to be much worse then he really is..... Go watch every single snap of EVERY single OL and you are going to find plenty to pick apart in all of there games

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>>BG93: this is a great time of year for debates. Treadwell is a Keyshawn Johnson type WR. Not the fastest, but big, clever and strong. Do you like him as a #1 WR? Enough to claim him at 13?

You know me--I'd rather have Hunter Henry than Treadwell. A true 2 TE offense with 2 big, tall fast TEs is a great way to dominate. I'll take Henry and effective run blocker over a slow WR with limited use in run game.

( watch Henry become a bust! )

Isn't Treadwell to close in WR type to Matthews? Treadwell is probably a certain upgrade to Coop ) a former 5th rounder).

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BG I have to correct myself. You were right about the KC game. It was Houston abusing him. Hali blocked the kick on Lane's wrong block read. We also had two huge plays called back because of Lane penalties(one was the huge DJax play for a TD).The game before Freeney moved over to his side and abused him. The mediocre pass rush domination was a different game. My fault. I stand corrected.

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Woody....did you read my post at all??? Treadwell at 13 I would not hesitate to take... For the record know who else doesn't have great speed Dez Bryant is there any doubt about him as a #1???? I know Larry Fitz(4.63 40) was he a number 1

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Upgrade to Cooper? If the Eagles were to take Treadwell at 13, he immediately becomes the #1 WR. Why would you draft a TE at 13, that would likely be available in the 2nd round, when the Eagles have Celek, Ertz and Burton on the roster already?

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Cunningham... so Freeny the best pass rusher on SD that year moved over to face our rookie RT???? So other teams then no doubt moved there best pass rushers over our RT for the matchup... SO what I am hearing is then Lane went up against teams best pass rushers and STILL better then Joeckel or Fischer was rookie years and 2nd season and again last year

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LANE HAS BEEN A GOOD PLAYER!!!!!!!!!!! he is right now 1 of if not the BEST RT in football not something we should be so down about.... Lane will get his chance at LT and when he does I am more the willing to have a tasteycake bet that he will be pretty good on that side as well

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BG I won't defend Joeckel. I was the guy stating that he was over ranked as a great college player that wouldn't be in the NFL. That was my pre draft stance that year. So I won't compare Lane to a poor decision pick like that.

BG you really believe the most penalized is the BEST?

Good player label for Lane I'm absolutely fine with

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Cunningham...I would not make the comment if I did not believe what I said... As for penalties the ENTIRE team was a walking flag we were extremely undisciplined team last season

Should be corrected with good quality COACHING

Woody....seriously do you want me to feel bad about Treadwell being similar to Matthews???? I would be fine with 2 Matthews on our team even though Treadwell and Matthews are different....

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Treadwell isn't in the same ballpark polish wise as Fitzgerald was coming out. Fitz is a technician with fabulous hands that works harder than any other receiver to perfect his craft. Precision in route running and mentally setting up his opponent is in that all time great level with Fitz. Treadwell isn't Fitz.

I was all about Fitzgerald coming out of college

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Your right he is not Fitz but Treadwell lack in the polish he makes up for in other areas he is a hell of a lot t stronger then Fitz coming out much more physical as well
I have made it very clear I see Treadwell in the light of guys like Dez and TO

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There are some trends in the NFL on where to draft good Tackles and where to draft good Guards however having good talent evaluators to begin with is the most important thing IMO. Lets take a look at the possible guards we are projected to be interested in this year in free agency. Brandon Brooks drafted in the third round. Jeff Allen drafted in the second round. Kelechi Osemele drafted in the second round. The tackle we are associated with is Mitchell Schwartz and he was drafted in the second round. Of course everyone knows that Lane was taken with the 4th pick in the first round but if you look at tackles from years past on the club Tre Thomas was taken with the 11th pick in the first round. A similar situation in what the Eagles have with this years draft. The best RT we ever had on the team IMO was John Runyan and he was acquired in free agency but was a 4th round draft pick.

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Well, I see a huge debate over Lane Johnson. One thing I will state is most experts liked the pick and I did also. Something we all need to realize is he was a QB out of HS, then played TE and switch to DE in College before moving to RT his Junior year. He then made the switch to LT his senior year. Here is a dude who had less than 2 seasons of starting at OT in college jumping into the NFL as a starter. I would think anyone had to believe there would be growing pains. Now, do I think he is the best? Probably no, but he is a solid tackle and I feel comfortable wherever he plays on our line. If you want to nic pick him on penalties, you may as well pick on Peters as he killed a bunch of drives last year with False starts....

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I would rather take Kenyan Drake at RB but they did wait till round 6 to take a RB and Drake probably won't be on the board still... I also believe we add a DL in this draft at some point which he did not have

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Well, I see a huge debate over Lane Johnson. One thing I will state is most experts liked the pick and I did also. Something we all need to realize is he was a QB out of HS, then played TE and switch to DE in College before moving to RT his Junior year. He then made the switch to LT his senior year. Here is a dude who had less than 2 seasons of starting at OT in college jumping into the NFL as a starter. I would think anyone had to believe there would be growing pains. Now, do I think he is the best? Probably no, but he is a solid tackle and I feel comfortable wherever he plays on our line. If you want to nic pick him on penalties, you may as well pick on Peters as he killed a bunch of drives last year with False starts....

Woody called Lane a conservative pick, which I disagree and for the reasons highlighted, because of that, there were risks taking him at 4. And like BG, I'd take him over Fisher and Joeckel at this point in their careers.

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Stine those are good points. You know whom had much less experience in that draft? Ziggy Ansah. He hadn't even watched football before he was 16. Taken the pick after he made the Pro Bowl.

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