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DaveSpadaro

[News] Lawlor: Critical Time For Smith, Agholor

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The Eagles have one first-round pick in the upcoming draft. Barring a trade, they will be selecting 14th overall. In a way, you can say the Eagles have three first-round picks. The team took defe...

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Sad part is by being "patient" you shell out millions of dollars.If a round 1 pick cannot contribute early,you have made a gross blunder and need to FIX it and you also must recognize if a first round player CAN contribute in year 2 OR if you made an error.Patience is for latter round guys.So we got lucky with Mayberry,but how many failures in comparison? Remember if you make a BAD pick,you are STUCK with that pick for 4 years(5th year options on a round 1).So is it "patience" or merely the fact you have no other choice but to keep losers around?

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I am very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I am buying that both Smith and Agholor could remove their 1rnd Bust status. The additions of Chris Long, and the veteran savvy he brings could help Smith and McCalister... Gordon has Peters... Agholor has Tory Smith and Jeffery, proven players along a New Proven WR coach. Things may be a lot different for Nelson.

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I am very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I am buying that both Smith and Agholor could remove their 1rnd Bust status. The additions of Chris Long, and the veteran savvy he brings could help Smith and McCalister... Gordon has Peters... Agholor has Tory Smith and Jeffery, proven players along a New Proven WR coach. Things may be a lot different for Nelson.

So if we got Smith and Alshon WHERE does AG fit in??? Unless we trade JMatt he's our slot guy

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I don't quite understand this new narrative that has made its way into media talking points. And that is the notion that wide receiver success as a rookie has been distorted by the 2014 class of Odell Beckham and Brandin Cooks. Seems to me the really good wide receivers of the last decade or more showed their ability fairly early on in their careers. The Eagles themselves saw this with Jackson and Maclin - both of which hit their wheelhouse seasons by year two at least. Nobody questioned that those two were going to be successful because we saw it right away in both. You can go back to Fred Barnett and Calvin Williams if you're a historian to see the same.

Not buying the notion that wide receivers require three of four years to start being effective. History shows otherwise. Nelson Agholor should have shown more by now. Same with DGB. I think the team would be wise to be willing to move on from both, cap hit notwithstanding.

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It's hubris for anyone in the Eagle's front office to think Agholor or Smith are NFL material. Agholor is, and will be, a 50% receiver and Marcus Smith cannot play. Smith's has 12 solo tackles in the NFL in three seasons and his 2 solo sacks in 2016 were OOOPs sacks. Getting rid of both players is addition by subtractionbut they Eagles won't do it because they won't admit these were horrific picks.

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Tommy Lawlor is right (as usual). Not every Pro Bowl caliber NFL player has a sensational rookie year, and many ride the bench for several years before breaking out. But let's hope that these guys are ready to contribute as solid starters. With the right coaching, the right scheme, the right help around them, and the right NFL body as they reach the prime years in their career, I think they're ready.

Patience is not one of the virtues of Eagles fans. Booing your own team doesn't help them... it puts pressure on them and makes them nervous. Eagles fans need to develop more loyalty and trust towards each and every player on the field, and forgive them for their mistakes. Cheer them when they succeed, but come on man... don't boo them when they come up short!

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Many here are down on Agholor and Smith. The N.F.L and it fans are Not For Long... produce now... or begone. The Patsy's and other teams continue to feast on our throwaways Eric Rowe, another of our latest discards thanks us for his Super Bowl ring. Greg Lewis lost his NFL job as the 2nd coach in back to back years to mentor these guys now a third guy is here to solve Agholor. Smith has a second season to produce in the defensive scheme that he grew up in. I look forward to seeing these guys arrive as Eagles. Not become another xEagle Billl Bellacheat success story.

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Cream always rises to the top. These two former first rounders simply haven't. Sometimes it's best to move on.

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3 hours ago, mwright252 said:

It's hubris for anyone in the Eagle's front office to think Agholor or Smith are NFL material. Agholor is, and will be, a 50% receiver and Marcus Smith cannot play. Smith's has 12 solo tackles in the NFL in three seasons and his 2 solo sacks in 2016 were OOOPs sacks. Getting rid of both players is addition by subtractionbut they Eagles won't do it because they won't admit these were horrific picks.

And they are under contract lol

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3 hours ago, medfordindians said:

Tommy Lawlor is right (as usual). Not every Pro Bowl caliber NFL player has a sensational rookie year, and many ride the bench for several years before breaking out. But let's hope that these guys are ready to contribute as solid starters. With the right coaching, the right scheme, the right help around them, and the right NFL body as they reach the prime years in their career, I think they're ready.

Patience is not one of the virtues of Eagles fans. Booing your own team doesn't help them... it puts pressure on them and makes them nervous. Eagles fans need to develop more loyalty and trust towards each and every player on the field, and forgive them for their mistakes. Cheer them when they succeed, but come on man... don't boo them when they come up short!

Right about what? How long you gonna coddle(aka "be patient")? You are paying them mega bucks DO YOUR JOB!!! How long would YOU last if you got paid but did NOT do your job?Is your boss gonna "be patient" while you play video games at work??? lol

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Sometimes it takes a change of scenery for that cream to rise... we are famous for letting our talent shine somewhere else. From a Cap perspective it's cheaper to keep Nelson at least thru 2017. I wanna see if our New WR whisperer and our off season additions help Agholor and DGB to perform.

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I think there was a big frustration with Agholor for dropping so many passes & for making a series of 'hard to excuse' mental errors--one that cost us a game. That was a lot by any standards. Agholor's outings to strip clubs, etc., didn't help his mindset on the field either, or I expect make him more admirable to Eagles fans, since no athlete plays up to their full potential when they become involved in such poor lifestyle choices. WR Chris Carter was terrible in Philadelphia too, for similar reasons--though I don't know if Agholor was likewise involved in drug and alcohol abuse, as Carter was.

Yet what I think upset Eagles' fans most was the stubbornness of the coaching staff to continue to rely so *heavily* on Agholor--on such hugely critical plays--for another entire season, as their #1 or #2 starting WR. Especially when a receiver like Paul Turner had proven that he could get open and catch everything thrown in his direction, not only in the pre-season, but in actual NFL games (with 6 catches!! in one half in the Washington game). I firmly believe that if Turner had been relied upon more than Agholor last season--rather than the other way around, the Eagles would have won more games.

My impression now is that there is a general consensus or resignation among Eagles fans to wait and see what Mike Groh can do with Agholor--since Groh may be able to turn him into a better receiver. Also, let's see what Groh can do with Green-Beckham too. But!, if the ball drops and mental errors continue next season, at what point do you cut your losses?

As for Smith, I agree there were some encouraging signs last year. The question with Smith is the opposite, however: it's more about whether the coaching staff is willing to play Smith more frequently, to see if he can reach a higher level? So far, under Pederson and Schwartz, the answer to that question has been no. The Eagles are even rumored to be looking to draft another promising college DE prospect in the coming weeks.

Edited by MrSimpson
correction

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I think there was a big frustration with Agholor for dropping so many passes & for making a series of 'hard to excuse' mental errors--one that cost us a game. That was a lot by any standards. Agholor's outings to strip clubs, etc., didn't help his mindset on the field either, or I expect make him more admirable to Eagles fans, since no athlete plays up to their full potential when they become involved in such poor lifestyle choices. WR Chris Carter was terrible in Philadelphia too, for similar reasons--though I don't know if Agholor was likewise involved in drug and alcohol abuse, as Carter was.

Yet what I think upset Eagles' fans most was the stubbornness of the coaching staff to continue to rely so *heavily* on Agholor--on such hugely critical plays--for another entire season, as their #1 or #2 starting WR. Especially when a receiver like Paul Turner had proven that he could get open and catch everything thrown in his direction, not only in the pre-season, but in actual NFL games (with 6 catches!! in one half in the Washington game). I firmly believe that if Turner had been relied upon more than Agholor last season--rather than the other way around, the Eagles would have won more games.

My impression now is that there is a general consensus or resignation among Eagles fans to wait and see what Mike Groh can do with Agholor--since Groh may be able to turn him into a better receiver. Also, let's see what Groh can do with Green-Beckham too. But!, if the ball drops and mental errors continue next season, at what point do you cut your losses?

As for Smith, I agree there were some encouraging signs last year. The question with Smith is the opposite, however: it's more about whether the coaching staff is willing to play Smith more frequently, to see if he can reach a higher level? So far, under Pederson and Schwartz, the answer to that question has been no. The Eagles are even rumored to be looking to draft another promising college DE prospect in the coming weeks.

You make a lot good points in your post Mr. Simpson.

Since Aggs is now in the last year of his rookie contract, we are still only paying him 1.7 Mill, so it would be a smart move on behalf of the Eagles to get a coach like Groh here, who Tommy mentions is much more experienced and has proven himself to be a highly competent WR's coach.

Maybe he gets through to Aggs and Beckam, because if one of the starters gets injured, then we will need a reliable WR that can play a prominent role this coming season.

Since both are playing this season with their careers on the line, maybe they play get a new contract, either with or without the Eagles.
.
I do agree that If either one of these players don't show they have improved significantly by the end of this season, I think you have to cut ties with both of them.

Not all good WR's come into the league lighting it up.
There are numerous cases of WR's exploding in year three.

Here's a web page that proves Tomny's third year hypothesis.

http://www.footballdocs.com/WR_three_year_rule.html

Getting one more year of seasoning is sometimes all it takes to become great.
Let's hope Groh can do what nobody else has been able to do.
Get these two players playing up to their potential.
If he can do that, then it will definitely be worth the wait.

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I am very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I am buying that both Smith and Agholor could remove their 1rnd Bust status. The additions of Chris Long, and the veteran savvy he brings could help Smith and McCalister... Gordon has Peters... Agholor has Tory Smith and Jeffery, proven players along a New Proven WR coach. Things may be a lot different for Nelson.

I mentioned this 2 or 3 weeks ago➙ "It could also help Agholor that he won't have a ton of pressure on him this season. Alshon Jeffery, Torrey Smith, and Jordan Matthews will be the workhorse receivers."➙plus about having those vets to help him out and having Mike Groh as a proven WR coach.
I am also very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I can't wait for preseason to see how much beefier McCalister looks and what he can do after putting some muscle weight on to go along with his 36" wingspan. I do believe we'll see a much more confident and consistent Agholor this season.

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  17 hours ago, trini said:

I am very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I am buying that both Smith and Agholor could remove their 1rnd Bust status. The additions of Chris Long, and the veteran savvy he brings could help Smith and McCalister... Gordon has Peters... Agholor has Tory Smith and Jeffery, proven players along a New Proven WR coach. Things may be a lot different for Nelson.

So if we got Smith and Alshon WHERE does AG fit in??? Unless we trade JMatt he's our slot guy

They'll all be rotating,just Agh not as much the top 3 ♞'s,unless he puts his cape and mask on and turns into Super Eagle. ☺

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By Mark Eckel | N.J. Advance Media

The 2017 NFL Schedule will reportedly be announced Thursday. Teams already know who they're playing and where they're playing, they just don't know when. If the Eagles could draw up their 16 games and bye week any way they wanted, it might look like this.………

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2017/04/2017_nfl_schedule_what_the_eagles_hope_they_get.html

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Appearing on NFL Network, Jenkins was clear that he would draft a corner.

"I think that when you lose two veteran corners, and that was already a position that we needed to address anyway, I think you have to look at the secondary, especially the corner position," he said. "You got a draft that is full of them, but if you don’t get a couple early, it might not be there later down in the draft. Hopefully they can get one of those Buckeyes that’ll be in the market at that time, and help up sure-up that secondary."

Jenkins, an Ohio State alum, is referring to OSU corners Marcus Lattimore and Gareon Conley, who are both projected to be gone by the time the Eagles pick at 14.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/malcolm-jenkins-and-brandon-graham-opine-who-eagles-should-draft/

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Eagles DT Beau Allen had successful surgery Wednesday to repair his torn pectoral tendon, a source tells ESPN's... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0644182641548990945-4 

In order to maintain depth along the line, the Eagles are interested in veteran defensive tackle Jared Odrick, according to ESPN. Here's more from ESPN's Tim McManus:
 

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Like the idea of having 2 1st round players raising to their draft status. If they do emerge, then the years spent in patience are not too bad. But if they still finding their way around, then this could easily turn into a problem. I see a bigger hurdle for Smith to gain PT, due to the guys in front of him are rather set and he has not established a niche area for contribution. Agholor has shown flashes as well as making amble mistakes. If he can continue to refine his game with the new WR coach while the spotlight is off him, he can solidify the 2nd WR spot. The wildcard is if they draft a WR in the early rounds, then he would face more and stronger competition.

Like the chances of Walker emerging in the LB group. We are not particularly deep in the position. Having another guy ready to contribute is good.

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  22 hours ago, trini said:

I am very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I am buying that both Smith and Agholor could remove their 1rnd Bust status. The additions of Chris Long, and the veteran savvy he brings could help Smith and McCalister... Gordon has Peters... Agholor has Tory Smith and Jeffery, proven players along a New Proven WR coach. Things may be a lot different for Nelson.

I mentioned this 2 or 3 weeks ago➙ "It could also help Agholor that he won't have a ton of pressure on him this season. Alshon Jeffery, Torrey Smith, and Jordan Matthews will be the workhorse receivers."➙plus about having those vets to help him out and having Mike Groh as a proven WR coach.
I am also very hopeful about McCalister, Walker and Dillon Gordon. I can't wait for preseason to see how much beefier McCalister looks and what he can do after putting some muscle weight on to go along with his 36" wingspan. I do believe we'll see a much more confident and consistent Agholor this season.

"Pressure" is why they make the big bucks.Can't handle that? Become a greeter at Wal-Mart.I am NOT gonna hold Agholor's binky

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Since we SHOULD understand we are not fixing everything this year,here is my mock and this should help us NOW as well as down the line.This mock would really fix more than 50%.1) Gareon Conley-CB-OSU 2) Quincy Wilson-CB-Florida 3) DeMarcus Walker-DE-FSU 4) Nazair Jones-DT-NC 4) Xavier Woods-SS-Louisiana Tech 5)James Conner-RB-Pitt 6) Tarik Cohen-RB(Sproles replacement)-NC AT&T 7) Robert Davis-WR-GA. St.Also UDAF Travin Dural-WR-LSU,Ashton Lampkin-CB-Okla. St.

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Since we SHOULD understand we are not fixing everything this year,here is my mock and this should help us NOW as well as down the line.This mock would really fix more than 50%.1) Gareon Conley-CB-OSU 2) Quincy Wilson-CB-Florida 3) DeMarcus Walker-DE-FSU 4) Nazair Jones-DT-NC 4) Xavier Woods-SS-Louisiana Tech 5)James Conner-RB-Pitt 6) Tarik Cohen-RB(Sproles replacement)-NC AT&T 7) Robert Davis-WR-GA. St.Also UDAF Travin Dural-WR-LSU,Ashton Lampkin-CB-Okla. St.

Doing this you get a solid secondary corps(Conley/Wilson/Woods) that can grow together and a rook DE that can help them out too.In my view we can get 4-5 starters out of this one,add depth and future starters

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Since we SHOULD understand we are not fixing everything this year,here is my mock and this should help us NOW as well as down the line.This mock would really fix more than 50%.1) Gareon Conley-CB-OSU 2) Quincy Wilson-CB-Florida 3) DeMarcus Walker-DE-FSU 4) Nazair Jones-DT-NC 4) Xavier Woods-SS-Louisiana Tech 5)James Conner-RB-Pitt 6) Tarik Cohen-RB(Sproles replacement)-NC AT&T 7) Robert Davis-WR-GA. St.Also UDAF Travin Dural-WR-LSU,Ashton Lampkin-CB-Okla. St.

BTW a few of these guys were "discovered" by others on this board.DWD uncovered Nazair,so I had a little help,but concur

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