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bobbywizdum

The NFL product has really deteriorated

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2 hours ago, RepPhilly said:

My biggest problem with the NFL is the excessive penalties and the timeouts/commercials.  I don't mind that the product isn't what it used to be 10-20 years ago. Players and teams also don't practice anywhere near as much as they used to.  

I'll still be sitting in front of my TV watching football all day on Sunday.  

See I guess... The main sport over here is soccer and for the most part that sucks. It's just a bunch of overpaid losers rolling around the field acting like they've been badly hurt. So my thirst for the NFL grows year on year because to me it gives me great entertainment.

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10 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

See I guess... The main sport over here is soccer and for the most part that sucks. It's just a bunch of overpaid losers rolling around the field acting like they've been badly hurt. So my thirst for the NFL grows year on year because to me it gives me great entertainment.

I bet you keep those thoughts to yourself.  Nothing's more entertaining than reading the comments when the Daily Mail app on my iPad covers the Superbowl.   "They play with pads, they aren't men like Rugby."  "They pass the ball, that's not football."   I'm sorry but what I've come across on Youtube (non football related), and other comment sites, the UK population that sits behind a computer screen, or tablet is very bitter.  They simply loathe Americans, to them it's a sport.   You're very brave.  

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6 hours ago, Iggles said:

I bet you keep those thoughts to yourself.  Nothing's more entertaining than reading the comments when the Daily Mail app on my iPad covers the Superbowl.   "They play with pads, they aren't men like Rugby."  "They pass the ball, that's not football."   I'm sorry but what I've come across on Youtube (non football related), and other comment sites, the UK population that sits behind a computer screen, or tablet is very bitter.  They simply loathe Americans, to them it's a sport.   You're very brave.  

I tend to be rather vocal in my thoughts about my love for the NFL and my frustrations with soccer. It's not to I hate soccer but there's a lot that really frustrates me about it. Too much time spent rolling around and complaining to the officials. And I have a love for America that goes back to when I was young. I tend to go on vacation to the states at least once a year and I'd love to live there.

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WARNING:  Very long article but worth the read. 

It pretty much sums up all my concerns on the future of football which I posted earlier and even adds a few I hadn't considered.. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/‘the-leading-edge-of-a-much-larger-iceberg’-new-jersey-high-school-disbands-football-team/ar-AAqy1U6?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

The leading edge of a much larger iceberg’: New Jersey high school disbands football team 

 
 

AAqxV4W.img?h=485&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

WEST WINDSOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. — The nationwide forces that are beginning to uproot football have collided at a place called High School North. 

 

Population shifts, concussions, sport specialization and cost — among the same issues that have caused youth football numbers to plummet around the country in recent years — have led West Windsor-Plainsboro High School North to shutter its varsity football team this season. The Knights, with a roster of 37 players, will play a junior varsity schedule.

High School South, the other secondary school in the district, might have to do the same next year, along with high schools from four other neighboring jurisdictions, West Windsor-Plainsboro Schools Superintendent David Aderhold said.

The moves belie a crisis for football all over the country, but one that has accelerated in this New York City bedroom community.

"We’re the leading edge of a much larger iceberg when it comes to what’s coming in youth athletics,” Aderhold said.

Football participation has dropped precipitously for some time. High school football enrollment is down 4.5 percent over the last decade, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.

More schools are fielding football teams nationwide, albeit with fewer players, led by surges in such states as Oklahoma, Florida and Arkansas, which have added 150 football teams in the past five years. But other regions — namely the Midwest and Northeast — are shedding high school football programs at an alarming rate. Michigan has seen a net loss of 57 teams in the past five years. Missouri has lost 24. Pennsylvania has lost 12.

Even Southern California powerhouse Long Beach Poly, which has sent dozens of players to the NFL, gave up its junior varsity squad amid low turnout this summer. California is down 28 high school football teams in the last half decade.

Centennial High in Ellicott City, Md., from a region that’s a traditional football stronghold, announced in August it would fold its varsity football team, citing a "lack of sufficient players and concern for student safety.”

Youth levels of football, leagues high schools lean on as feeder systems, saw a nearly 30 percent drop in participation between 2008 and 2013, according to data collected by the Sports & Fitness Industry Association.

It has sent school officials nationwide clamoring to stabilize their varsity programs and reevaluate the game that has claimed high school Friday nights for generations.

"Football can be a great game, and still can offer many benefits when served up well. But it is being squeezed from several angles, all of them 21st century concerns,” said Tom Farrey, executive director of the Aspen Institute. "It takes a lot to do football right, and more than a few youth and school programs are groaning under that pressure.”

Unique issues in New Jersey

The forces fueling those declines have come to the fore, sometimes in extremes, in West Windsor.

Demographic changes have brought populations here among which football is not as familiar. Sixty-one percent of High School North’s 1,500-some students are Indian- and Asian American. Some of those families have clashed previously with other families, many of them white, over the role of extracurricular activities in the school district.

"We didn’t grow up with football being part of the culture,” High School North booster club president Sandy Johnson said. Johnson is Chinese-American and married to Olin Johnson, who is white and coaches one of West Windsor’s youth football teams. "It’s a struggle when parents don’t know the sport.”

Concerns over football-related head injuries have driven some parents to lead their children away from the sport. Great Recession-era education budget cuts meant New Jersey eliminated a slew of middle school and subvarsity sports. 

It has all led to North fielding a team of only five varsity players this fall, senior quarterback Brian Murphy said. South has a senior class of only 11 players. After they graduate, the ranks are thin.

"They have more kids than us, but not by much,” Murphy said.

Football coaches and boosters at every level of play in West Windsor have scrambled to recruit parents to sign their children up for football or give their teens permission to try the sport in high school. 

In so doing, they have found that the face of the town has changed. It used to be a haven for second-generation immigrants, said Steve Rome, a 1987 High School South graduate. His mother was born in Morocco, then immigrated to Israel, then the United States. His neighbors were Indian- and Asian American. His son, Jack, is a defensive lineman for North.

But the technology boom and high-skill jobs in biotechnology, medicine, finance and academia have attracted a new class of migrants to these suburbs, where the median annual household income is $161,750. Those parents are not signing their kids up for football at the same rate as the rest of the nation.

"I doubt many Italian or Jewish kids knew what baseball was when they stepped on Ellis Island,” Rome said. "It’s the same thing that’s going on here.”

North Coach Jeff Reilly, a physical education teacher at one of the local elementary schools, has asked other coaches about athletes who might be a good fit for football. He has emailed parents from his elementary school classes to suggest they sign their kids up for football or other youth sports.

The Wildcats offer new parents a free 21-day trial period for football. They moved spring flag football practice to days that don’t conflict with other sports, team president Donald Haas said. They offer full scholarships if parents aren’t sure about the $225 registration fee.

"I had a dad recently who told me, ‘I never dreamed my kid would play sports, let alone football,’” Reilly said. 

Parents have growing concerns about the injury risk involved with football, specifically the risk of head injuries. A slew of recent academic studies have presented varying conclusions about the risk of long-term brain damage resulting from high school football.

Princeton High School Coach Charlie Gallagher said he spent more than an hour on the phone with a parent recently discussing the risks associated with football.

Haas, a cardiologist, spends time going through the studies with families and breaking down the relative risk of playing football with other sports like soccer, where concussion risk is actually higher than football.

"What we’ve talked about in our program is not about whether there’s risk,” Haas said. "There’s risk in everything. It’s whether that risk is manageable.”

The Wildcats’ 2.5 percent youth football participation rate — below the national average of more than 4 percent (using 2015 numbers from the SFIA) — is a healthy enough clip, boosters say, to support one high school football team. Aderhold, the superintendent, petitioned three of New Jersey’s high school athletics governing bodies to merge North and South’s teams into one healthy, viable program. The schools even offered to forego the playoffs, as long as they could play varsity football.

All three bodies — the New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association, the West Jersey Football League and the state Department of Education — rejected the request.

‘There’s a ripple effect’

That put Murphy, the Knights’ senior starting quarterback, in a bind that even the college coaches recruiting him don’t have a solution for. Murphy threw for more than 2,200 yards his junior season, to go with 24 touchdowns. Coaches from Yale, Villanova, Georgetown and others have asked about his college plans.

Murphy has told them he’ll play North’s junior varsity schedule so he won’t have to transfer his senior year of high school.

A Georgetown coach, his parents said, told him not to bother sending in more game tape. Coaches wouldn’t look at JV film.

This is what’s at stake should High School North lose its football team, boosters say. It would disrupt so much more than a sports team. The recruiting and college options for the team’s student-athletes. The Friday night atmosphere. The main stage for cheerleaders, and North’s acclaimed marching band.

"When North played South, that was a big deal,” Haas said. "There’s a ripple effect from football. But the reason we’re vocal is because we’re a tight community and football does this to people.”

Aderhold in 2015 introduced a new curriculum with a larger focus on the arts and extracurricular activities. He called it a "whole child” approach to education. It included no-homework nights and ended high school midterms and final exams.

But it also raised tensions in West Windsor that broke largely along racial lines over the balance between academic excellence and well-roundedness outside the classroom. One Asian American father told the New York Times the reforms were "anti-intellectual.” A white mother said her son in fourth grade complained he had nothing to put on his resume.

Those tensions have simmered again as the school district pours more resources into rescuing a football program in decline.

"It’s underlying all of this,” Sandy Johnson, the booster club president said. "There are open wounds.”

In search of newcomers

Ayush Prakash is short and thin with lean arms and narrow shoulders easily engulfed by shoulder pads. 

He started watching football two years ago at a friend’s house, then came home and flipped from the cricket match his father was watching to an NFL game. After his parents scolded him for changing the channel, he watched highlights quietly on his laptop. 

When he asked to play football earlier this summer, his parents were confused.

"Play cricket,” they told him. "We’re Indian. We’re not built for football.”

"I want to play a sport I like and doesn’t feel like a job,” Ayush responded.

"Fine,” his parents said. "You get one year.”

Weeks into summer practice, Prakash looked to be in line to get decent playing time for the Knights at free safety and wide receiver, Coach Jeff Reilly said. He’s a smart kid and a decent athlete.

His neighbor, another Indian-American rising freshman at North, asked about the football team every day when Prakash gets home from practice, he said.

"Try it,” he told him. "Put yourself into it. You can play this sport. It doesn’t matter what race you are.”

Football coaches and school administrators are taking that same message to parents, and toeing a thin line between encouraging them to enroll their children in football without telling them how to parent.

Ivy League schools like seeing team sports experience on applications, coaches tell parents. They point to studies that show a strong link between athletics participation and academic improvement. There is a payoff down the road to playing sports, especially football, they argue.

But the whole saga has left families wondering what West Windsor will look like without football, and what it means that their elite school district might drop a sport long viewed as central to the high school experience. 

Prakash spent two weeks with the Knights getting ready for their season opener against Robbinsville. At the end of the second, he realized playing football wasn’t for him. His father emailed Coach Reilly to say he wouldn’t be returning for the third week.

AAqxXt4.img?h=486&w=728&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f© Mark Makela/For The Washington Post

 

 

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2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I tend to be rather vocal in my thoughts about my love for the NFL and my frustrations with soccer. It's not to I hate soccer but there's a lot that really frustrates me about it. Too much time spent rolling around and complaining to the officials. And I have a love for America that goes back to when I was young. I tend to go on vacation to the states at least once a year and I'd love to live there.

Come on over buddy!!

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2 hours ago, bwestbrook36 said:

Come on over buddy!!

Really. Lots of great places to stay. Tremendous variety. I just returned from a  2 day stay in the Finger Lakes region of NY State. Bee-yoo-tee-ful country! I imagine the winters are a bit challenging but hey! You can work on your skiing skills! There's hill & dale everywhere. The 'big town' that's close by is called Auburn. The downtown section looks like any city in the states with all the same amenities :  lots of olde wooden homes built in the last 50 - 150 years, shops, traffic, lack of parking etc. etc. It's already getting cool up there with temps in the 40's last night. Syracuse (Donovan Mc5's alma mater) is about 40 - 50 miles away to the NE.

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Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'd love to buddy! If someone would sponsor me I'd do it in a heartbeat!!!

Haha you can stay at my place and go ruin our lives lol

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Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Haha it's a deal! Whereabouts do you live?

About an HR and a half from Philly. Quiet town nice area

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1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I'll take that!

That would be cool to hang out with a big eagle fan from a different country . Lots to talk about and argue over!! 

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6 hours ago, bwestbrook36 said:

That would be cool to hang out with a big eagle fan from a different country . Lots to talk about and argue over!! 

Yeah for sure it would! It's definitely still my goal to one day work in the States.

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On 8/26/2017 at 3:23 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

See I guess... The main sport over here is soccer and for the most part that sucks. It's just a bunch of overpaid losers rolling around the field acting like they've been badly hurt. So my thirst for the NFL grows year on year because to me it gives me great entertainment.

Im with you man soccer sucks. Even the world cup sucks. I do like playing fifa though lol

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2 hours ago, bobbywizdum said:

Im with you man soccer sucks. Even the world cup sucks. I do like playing fifa though lol

FIFA is one of those real easy to pick up and play games. Doesn't matter if you only have 10 minutes to spare you can still get a game in. And it's a good laugh to play with friends too with a few drinks.

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Big hits hits are the best part of football. Unfortunately, they have to be legislated out of the game. As a result, the enjoyment suffers.

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On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:23 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

See I guess... The main sport over here is soccer and for the most part that sucks. It's just a bunch of overpaid losers rolling around the field acting like they've been badly hurt. So my thirst for the NFL grows year on year because to me it gives me great entertainment.

At least the NFL is no where near as bad as the NBA when it comes to timeouts, especially late and/or end of game.

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54 minutes ago, RepPhilly said:

At least the NFL is no where near as bad as the NBA when it comes to timeouts, especially late and/or end of game.

One of the things I love about the NFL is that you pretty much get an hour of action. Ok it may take 3 hours to get through a game but at least it's action when the clock is running. In soccer they've calculated that there's about 45-60 minutes worth of action in a 90 minute game! So where's the 30+ minutes of injury time every game.

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On ‎8‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 6:41 PM, SBorBust said:

Big hits hits are the best part of football.

Unfortunately, they have to be legislated out of the game.

As a result, the enjoyment suffers.

Yes, and my  annoyment  increases!  <g>

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On 8/23/2017 at 1:59 AM, Iggles said:

The difference is that back then QB's weren't sacred cows.  They weren't occupying almost 30% of the teams cap space in terms of salary since there was no salary cap then to begin with.  Now the QB's are handled with kid gloves, because it's all about NFL, and team revenue dollars.  The game had more fluidity back then.  As soon as I saw that Ed Hochuli was going to be head ref for the Bills game last Thursday, I knew he would extend the length of the game by at least fifteen minutes for ticky tack crap calls.   The Joe West of the NFL, who infamous for his "floating" strike zone. 

As for Joe Greene, did it cross your mind that if Joe Green was in his prime during this era of NFL football he would be bigger than 275-280 lbs.?  Same talent, larger build.  Even though the players almost 40 years ago were 50-80 pounds lighter on both lines on average, it doesn't take away the action on the field.  It's just as entertaining.  

Why would that cross my mind ? Why would he be bigger ? And if he was bigger, how do you know he would have the same athletic ability with 25-30lbs. of added weight to his frame ? If he was able to maintain that athleticism with that added weight, then why didn't he put on that weight in the first place ? It would've made him even more effective then he already was. The answer most likely is that he would've been overweight at 300 lbs., and thus less effective.

I'm not saying that the players being smaller ( in the past ) takes away from the action on the field. I'm just saying that the players of today ( that we keep calling soft ) would manhandle the players of yesteryear that we claim were so much tougher. Also, since the players of today are so much bigger, stronger, and faster, how do we know that the players 40 years ago wouldn't have to be "babied" like the players of today if they played in today's game ?

Think of it like this: a linebacker 40 years ago had to take on guards weighing 270-280 lbs.. A linebacker today has to take on guards weighing 50lbs more, and who are probably ( on average ) at least a tenth a second faster in the forty yard dash--it's probably two tenths of a second faster. 

Quarterbacks 40 years ago had to stand in the pocket and take hits from players who at most wieghed 280 lbs.. Today, QBs take hits from players who weigh up to 330 lbs., and they're much faster. 

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49 minutes ago, Phila.:chip said:

Why would that cross my mind ? Why would he be bigger ? And if he was bigger, how do you know he would have the same athletic ability with 25-30lbs. of added weight to his frame ? If he was able to maintain that athleticism with that added weight, then why didn't he put on that weight in the first place ? It would've made him even more effective then he already was. The answer most likely is that he would've been overweight at 300 lbs., and thus less effective.

I'm not saying that the players being smaller ( in the past ) takes away from the action on the field. I'm just saying that the players of today ( that we keep calling soft ) would manhandle the players of yesteryear that we claim were so much tougher. Also, since the players of today are so much bigger, stronger, and faster, how do we know that the players 40 years ago wouldn't have to be "babied" like the players of today if they played in today's game ?

Think of it like this: a linebacker 40 years ago had to take on guards weighing 270-280 lbs.. A linebacker today has to take on guards weighing 50lbs more, and who are probably ( on average ) at least a tenth a second faster in the forty yard dash--it's probably two tenths of a second faster. 

Quarterbacks 40 years ago had to stand in the pocket and take hits from players who at most wieghed 280 lbs.. Today, QBs take hits from players who weigh up to 330 lbs., and they're much faster. 

Sorry but these players of today would not manhandle the players of the 70s 80s 90s 2000s. Do they have better technology today? Sure. If they were playing in the same era theyd have the same things. The greats would always be great imo. You realize the game was way more physical, practice was way nire demanding, and protecting qbs and money players wasnt held above all else. Furthermore the size element is fundamentally flawed. Plenty of little guys beat up big guys. Chip was a dope.

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8 hours ago, bobbywizdum said:

Sorry but these players of today would not manhandle the players of the 70s 80s 90s 2000s. Do they have better technology today? Sure. If they were playing in the same era theyd have the same things. The greats would always be great imo. You realize the game was way more physical, practice was way nire demanding, and protecting qbs and money players wasnt held above all else. Furthermore the size element is fundamentally flawed. Plenty of little guys beat up big guys. Chip was a dope.

Okay, first, the 90s and on is the modern era. I'm talking about 30-40 years ago.

"Do they have better technology today? Sure. If they were playing in the same era theyd have the same things."

The average weight for an NFL lineman was 255 lbs.. The average height was 6'3". As far as weight is concerned,maybe training regimens can explain the increase in weight, but that may be a stretch. It's not like players just started lifting weights in the modern era. Weightlifting has been around since ancient Greece. Maybe it's better drugs, because if you look at bodybuilders in the 1970s they're not as big as today, but every player in league isn't using PEDs, and if you look at the average NFL lineman in the 70s, blue chip recruits weigh more than that coming out of high school. Also, steroids weren't even illegal to posses in the the 70s, and they weren't tested for in the NFL until the late 80s. It wouldn't surprise me if a much higher percentage of players used steroids back in the 70s than today.

Now how do you explain the increase in average height. What technology could be responsible for that ?

"Furthermore the size element is fundamentally flawed. Plenty of little guys beat up big guys. Chip was a dope."

Now you know that's nonsense. How many 275 lbs. defensive tackles do you have in the league ? Why does Kelce struggle ? Chip was a dope for other reason. In the trenches, size definitely matters.

"The greats would always be great imo."

If you're talking about QBs, WRs, TEs, and LBs, then yeah; they haven't really gotten that much bigger ,and size isn't as paramount , but in the trenches they'd get manhandled. The average weight for a lineman wasn't even 260 lbs. ! Also, defensive lineman were generally the same size as offensive lineman until the 80s, so players like Joe Green were dominant against offensive lineman who were the same size as him. You could argue that a defensive lineman has to be more technically sound in today's NFL simply because he has to compete against men who routinely outweigh them by 30-40 pounds. Could Joe Green have been as dominant against players outweighing him by 30-40 pounds ?

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