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bobbywizdum

The NFL product has really deteriorated

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Been watching reruns of games from the early 2000s and it is painfully obvious how watered down the product has become. Basic fundamentals seem to be lacking, receivers run wide open compared to the past, and tackling as a whole seems to be a lost art form. 

 

This change obviously occured gradually through rule changes, the popularity of fantasy football, and the player safety agenda but this league has really took a turn for the worse. 

 

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39 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Watch some games from the 70's and 80's and look at that contrast.

True that. I've often wondered how good our late 80's / early 90's D would be in today's NFL.

I'm thinking that something like up to half of their plays would be penalties today.

Andre Waters plays alone would be cut in half. Incidental contact would be either holding or illegal touching.

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1 hour ago, McNabbIsGone said:

True that. I've often wondered how good our late 80's / early 90's D would be in today's NFL.

I'm thinking that something like up to half of their plays would be penalties today.

Andre Waters plays alone would be cut in half. Incidental contact would be either holding or illegal touching.

Yeah there wasnt much difference as a whole between the 80s, 90s, early 00s other then the salary cap change but that had more to do with leveling the field than game play. 

I think that we are watching paycheck players. Youre right way less flags back then even on after the whistle contact. The game is cupcake soft today.

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On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:31 PM, bobbywizdum said:

there wasnt much difference as a whole between the 80s, 90s, early 00s other then the salary cap change but that had more to do with leveling the field than game play. I think that we are watching paycheck players. Youre right way less flags back then even on after the whistle contact. The game is cupcake soft today.

Those of us 'elder statesmen' have witnessed the evolution of the game since the 80's & 90's. Free agency in 1993 began the higher paychecks for marquee players. This in turn lead to rules changes we've seen year after year, decade after decade . . . the vast majority of which are intended to protect the higher paid players, especially QBs & WRs although there are exceptions.

As I see it, they've taken what is essentially a kids game and tried to make it safer for 250 - 350 lb. monsters who are all jacked to the max with speeds approaching 4.0 40s. The human body was never intended to withstand these kinds of forces, pressures & stress and this is why we see the injuries we do. And now they're all part of the 1%, putting them among the wealthiest people on the planet . . . and thus, they need more protection.

Hence, more rules which, in effect, help to protect the 'Cash Cow' that is the NFL.

It's always about the $$ & control, whether it's politics, everyday life or the NFL.

:worthy:  $$$$

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On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:31 PM, bobbywizdum said:

I think that we are watching paycheck players. Youre right way less flags back then even on after the whistle contact. The game is cupcake soft today.

And with articles like these: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-latest-brain-study-examined-111-former-nfl-players-only-one-didnt-have-cte/2017/07/25/835b49e4-70bc-11e7-8839-ec48ec4cae25_story.html?utm_term=.e899f5a6810f

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/25/health/cte-nfl-players-brains-study/index.html

it figures to get even softer. The research now includes High School & College football. It shows a direct correlation to brain injury VS. age & size . . . which equals a steady increase in brain injury as the players get ever larger & stronger and the sport gets ever more violent. 

I know I've said it here before but I'll say it again: American Football was a kids game. It was never intended to be played by 250 - 350 lb.  MONSTERS  who are all jacked beyond belief and lightening quick.

Add to that the  BIG  money involved and the competitive spirit of the coaching that teaches young men to pummel themselves into oblivion and you can see why there are so many injuries even beyond CTE. 

I played club football & HS football up to 1967. You never saw the injuries then that you see today in the NFL or even at the collegiate level. There were no broken legs or shredded biceps or torn Achilles tendons in club football . . . although I did start seeing broken bones & ankles in HS. Usually you got spiked or you pulled a muscle or got knocked down after being hit awkwardly. Even so, there were never the grievous injuries that we see in the NFL of the recent past.

quod erat demonstrandum    

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On 7/16/2017 at 11:58 PM, McNabbIsGone said:

Those of us 'elder statesmen' have witnessed the evolution of the game since the 80's & 90's. Free agency in 1993 began the higher paychecks for marquee players. This in turn lead to rules changes we've seen year after year, decade after decade . . . the vast majority of which are intended to protect the higher paid players, especially QBs & WRs although there are exceptions.

As I see it, they've taken what is essentially a kids game and tried to make it safer for 250 - 350 lb. monsters who are all jacked to the max with speeds approaching 4.0 40s. The human body was never intended to withstand these kinds of forces, pressures & stress and this is why we see the injuries we do. And now they're all part of the 1%, putting them among the wealthiest people on the planet . . . and thus, they need more protection.

Hence, more rules which, in effect, help to protect the 'Cash Cow' that is the NFL.

It's always about the $$ & control, whether it's politics, everyday life or the NFL.

:worthy:  $$$$

I've mentioned it in another post referring to the end of the Dallas Eagles 1981 NFC Championship game.  When the game was 20-7 and it was obvious the Eagles were going to win, Danny White gets tossed to the ground like a rag doll by one of the Eagles DL.   No flag, no letter from the league, no fine, and so suspension.   Today if Danny White was making top five QB money.........the NFL today is a corporate joke.  

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I get it's not like it used to be but it's kind of sick that we rather have guys scramble their brains for our entertainment. 

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19 minutes ago, bwestbrook36 said:

I get it's not like it used to be but it's kind of sick that we rather have guys scramble their brains for our entertainment. 

I think some of the rule changes are not just to protect heads, but to increase scoring.  How does a DB keeping his hands on a WR beyond 5 yds really hurt anyone's head?  But that's a penalty.  

Protecting the QB speaks for itself when they make so much money, but some of the penalties are just plain silly, and they are not for protection of the players, but to increase big plays.  

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17 hours ago, Iggles said:

I've mentioned it in another post referring to the end of the Dallas Eagles 1981 NFC Championship game.  Danny White gets tossed to the ground like a rag doll by one of the Eagles DL.   No flag, no letter from the league, no fine, and no suspension.   Today if Danny White was making top five QB money.........the NFL today is a corporate joke.  

I 'get' all of that and I agree that the game has been watered down & cut back from what we saw 20, 25 - 30 years ago. 

The bottom line is: the league has morphed into a more PC, more touchy / feely / caring league b/c of traumatic brain injury and a litany of other injuries we see over & over & over again. Lotsa  $$  involved here . . . 'Nuff said. 

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5 hours ago, McNabbIsGone said:

I 'get' all of that and I agree that the game has been watered down & cut back from what we saw 20, 25 - 30 years ago. 

The bottom line is: the league has morphed into a more PC, more touchy / feely / caring league b/c of traumatic brain injury and a litany of other injuries we see over & over & over again. Lotsa  $$  involved here . . . 'Nuff said. 

Well you've made my point.  Thirty six years ago players on defense tackled properly, and didn't lead with their heads in a tackle.  They grabbed players by the waist, and threw them down to the ground.   Andre' Waters was not one of those players.  He was the original head hunter.  Waters committed suicide in retirement in 2006 because he could no longer take the pain.    

CTE really impacts the defensive players more than any other group outside of OL, and RB's.  Many veteran QB's from the last 45 years are still functioning adults.  Ken Stabler took too many gambles for a piece of real estate on an NFL field, and paid the price.   

The only way this CTE problem goes away is if an act of Congress bans American football in all leagues.  From pee-wee through the NFL.  That will never happen.  

Now this has become; "Are you willing to sacrifice your body for a multi-million dollar contract ?".  At the age of 22 they don't care, they're invincible.   Nobody is going to take that yearly $40+ million dollar salary from the snake oil salesman Roger Goodell.  

 

 

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16 hours ago, Iggles said:

Thirty six years ago players on defense tackled properly, and didn't lead with their heads in a tackle.  They grabbed players by the waist, and threw them down to the ground. 

Maybe, maybe not all the time, though.

There was always the old 'horse-collar' tackle that wasn't outlawed until 10 or 11 years ago. Also, there were all manner of moves & hits & tackles that are no longer used. Back in the 60's we were taught to take players out at the knees . . . for real! We also had a move called a 'cross-body block.' You would target a player and launch yourself, flying sideways into your opponents knees or thighs. If done properly (you can't be a small kid and pull this off, ya gotta have some weight and put some muscle into it) you deck your opponent and take him out of the play. I'm sure there's other stuff I've forgotten.

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Its called giving an equipment company a perpetual monopoly on NFL equipment so they can sit on 1980's tech equipment while people get bigger and faster.

Then idiots are surprised with so many injuries, so they add more rules abut injuries.

Stop being stupid with equipment contracts, incentivize innovation, and then get rid of the defenseless BS rules.

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3 hours ago, matchew88 said:

Its called giving an equipment company a perpetual monopoly on NFL equipment so they can sit on 1980's tech equipment while people get bigger and faster.

Then idiots are surprised with so many injuries, so they add more rules abut injuries.

Stop being stupid with equipment contracts, incentivize innovation, and then get rid of the defenseless BS rules.

There is no equipment to protect these guys from the injuries they are getting

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11 hours ago, bwestbrook36 said:

There is no equipment to protect these guys from the injuries they are getting

Exactly right. The nature of the game makes protecting these guys from most injuries impossible. Physics will win 100% of the time with regard to impact and collisions. Nothing is going to stop a human brain from rattling around inside of a skull after a hit to the head.

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17 hours ago, bwestbrook36 said:

There is no equipment to protect these guys from the injuries they are getting

 

5 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

Exactly right. The nature of the game makes protecting these guys from most injuries impossible. Physics will win 100% of the time with regard to impact and collisions. Nothing is going to stop a human brain from rattling around inside of a skull after a hit to the head.

Can't be done = Not true. Its a symbol inertia problem. Meta-materials like D3O can be explored. 

And thats the thing- you think you know, but innovation lies in the unknown, in paradigms that haven't existed yet.

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1 hour ago, matchew88 said:

 

Can't be done = Not true. Its a symbol inertia problem. Meta-materials like D3O can be explored. 

And thats the thing- you think you know, but innovation lies in the unknown, in paradigms that haven't existed yet.

What?

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5 hours ago, greenskeeper said:

positional size/weight restrictions would be an option

Also making helmets have a softer shell with some give.  Kind of like how cars are designed to absorb impacts.

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On 8/2/2017 at 7:40 PM, McNabbIsGone said:

Maybe, maybe not all the time, though.

There was always the old 'horse-collar' tackle that wasn't outlawed until 10 or 11 years ago. Also, there were all manner of moves & hits & tackles that are no longer used. Back in the 60's we were taught to take players out at the knees . . . for real! We also had a move called a 'cross-body block.' You would target a player and launch yourself, flying sideways into your opponents knees or thighs. If done properly (you can't be a small kid and pull this off, ya gotta have some weight and put some muscle into it) you deck your opponent and take him out of the play. I'm sure there's other stuff I've forgotten.

D ick "Night Train" Lane made a HOF career out of hitting receivers in the neck with his forearm and throwing them to the ground by the facemask.

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11 hours ago, Mortimer said:

Also making helmets have a softer shell with some give.  Kind of like how cars are designed to absorb impacts.

They already have pads in them and are made out of plastic. They are made to absorb contact.

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16 hours ago, matchew88 said:

 

Can't be done = Not true. Its a symbol inertia problem. Meta-materials like D3O can be explored. 

And thats the thing- you think you know, but innovation lies in the unknown, in paradigms that haven't existed yet.

Are you thinking that injecting this D3O  stuff into a skull to keep a brain from rattling around would be a good idea?

No matter what kinds of materials are used to protect the head, none of them are going to stop the brain from being damaged by an impact. As for what may come in the future, I can't say, but right now, today, it ain't happening.

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14 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

Are you thinking that injecting this D3O  stuff into a skull to keep a brain from rattling around would be a good idea?

No matter what kinds of materials are used to protect the head, none of them are going to stop the brain from being damaged by an impact. As for what may come in the future, I can't say, but right now, today, it ain't happening.

Your brain is in a fluid floating in your skull. And the "future" happens with innovation. It won't be solved next week. But put in the right incentive and it gets developed. That's the point.

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10 hours ago, matchew88 said:

Your brain is in a fluid floating in your skull. And the "future" happens with innovation. It won't be solved next week. But put in the right incentive and it gets developed. That's the point.

By the time that happens, the NFL wont exist in its current state. These guys are already starting to get the picture, and walking away from the game. It'll take some time, but eventually, they're going to start seeing a drop off in players coming in. The information, and the proof coming out, is going to deter at least a small percentage of them, and eventually, more of them, at least in my opinion. It'll largely depend on what they value more: money, or a lifetime of physical/mental issues.

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See I know I'm far newer to the NFL than a lot of you guys... But I still think it becomes more exciting and more unpredictable every year. Every week any team can beat any team and I really can't call at this point who's in for a good year and who's not.

The problem last year was the officiating and then for reason the play offs were all blow outs with the exception of the Green Bay Dallas game.

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