Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

VaBeach_Eagle

Ezekiel Elliott Suspended for 6 games

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

My original feeling about week 17 was the Eagles would lose at home to the Cowboys because the game would be meaningless to the Eagles with most of the starters MAYBE playing a series or two to stay sharp but otherwise getting out of there quickly, resting for most likely a Divisional Playoff game.

Could be for sure.  

They could also, depending on their team situation, just sit Zeke for the rest of the year, unless they are in a playoff run.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mihailo said:

Well the odds were against him and his request was denied. I wasn't suggesting that because there was a 3% chance that it was impossible for it not to happen, simply the odds were overwhelmingly not in his favor.

Sure, just making the point that the stats are misleading. Throwaway cases tilt the scoreboard. Not all cases are created equal and some are far more viable and likely to be heard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, AllHailDawk said:

Sure, just making the point that the stats are misleading. Throwaway cases tilt the scoreboard. Not all cases are created equal and some are far more viable and likely to be heard. 

Yes, each case is unique at the end of the day, however I am no position to judge the merits of past cases in contrast to this case though. Which is why I suggested a primitive generalised statistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

the judge specifically cited the brady case in denying Zeke's appeal. And Zeke isn't lucky in any way...not only was he not ever charged, but the the NFL's own lead investigator recommended he not get suspended, the NFL's own medical examiner, the one who the NFL based their "guilty" ruling on said during the appeal that they could be wrong and were basically just guessing..........and he still got the max. This was just the NFL trying to make up for past instances in which they tried to cover up for Ray Rice and go easy on the Giants kicker.

Cant argue that the league went heavy on Zeke because of how past transgressions were handled and not well received by the public.

None of that makes any difference. If you are driving and you are following 10 cars all doing about the same speed limit and the cop pulls you over for speeding, your argument of well everyone else was doing the same speed is invalid. You were speeding, you got caught, you pay the price.

Now you can argue whether or not Zeke is guilty all you want, that doesn't change the fact that the league has the power to discipline him the way they did. 

The League is NOT a court of law in regards to guilty not guilty. They believe he has violated the personal conduct policy. And guess what, thats all that matters. The CBA gives them this power. We know Zeke has done some stupid things, he needs to pay the price.

It's not much different in most states at your place of work. If you work at a place that is a non union place, they can pretty much fire/discipline someone without having to have HARD FACTUAL evidence that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the person is guilty. At a place with a union it is a bit harder, but not much. Really depends on the CBA. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ialone said:

Cant argue that the league went heavy on Zeke because of how past transgressions were handled and not well received by the public.

None of that makes any difference. If you are driving and you are following 10 cars all doing about the same speed limit and the cop pulls you over for speeding, your argument of well everyone else was doing the same speed is invalid. You were speeding, you got caught, you pay the price.

Now you can argue whether or not Zeke is guilty all you want, that doesn't change the fact that the league has the power to discipline him the way they did. 

The League is NOT a court of law in regards to guilty not guilty. They believe he has violated the personal conduct policy. And guess what, thats all that matters. The CBA gives them this power. We know Zeke has done some stupid things, he needs to pay the price.

It's not much different in most states at your place of work. If you work at a place that is a non union place, they can pretty much fire/discipline someone without having to have HARD FACTUAL evidence that proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the person is guilty. At a place with a union it is a bit harder, but not much. Really depends on the CBA. 

oh, I never argued that the NFL did not have the right to suspend him, they obviously do. Once he got the 6 games I understood no matter how much he appeals, he is serving 6 games at some point. That said, I don't consider him "lucky" and it doesn't make the NFL right. When you look at the facts of the case, but even more importantly the shady stuff the NFL pulled during the investigation and the appeal.......it has to make you question their integrity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

oh, I never argued that the NFL did not have the right to suspend him, they obviously do. Once he got the 6 games I understood no matter how much he appeals, he is serving 6 games at some point. That said, I don't consider him "lucky" and it doesn't make the NFL right. When you look at the facts of the case, but even more importantly the shady stuff the NFL pulled during the investigation and the appeal.......it has to make you question their integrity.

dissagree here. agree there isnt enough to convict him in a court of law, but there is enough evidence for them to believe he is guilty of violating the policy.  and thats all they need.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ialone said:

dissagree here. agree there isnt enough to convict him in a court of law, but there is enough evidence for them to believe he is guilty of violating the policy.  and thats all they need.

 

 

Well, it’s really the players faults for giving him that kind of power. They would have had to give money in order to take that out of Godells hands. When the it expires I doubt the players union would give something else up in order to change the power he has. I don’t see the owners making a change either. It’s not right if you are a player that the league is labeling you for something you did not do then I understand the reason he is fighting this but I don’t see a legal path for him to win this battle. 

I do believe that Goodell is trying to make up for the Ray Rice mess as well at the Giants kicker for the heat he has taken just as Stephen said. If he pisses off enough or the right owners they may decide to replace him at some point because the public hates him and he had caused enough problems to fired. He helps makes the owners a lot of money and that usually trumps everything else. Zeke really never had a shot for a fair hearing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kind of expected to hear something by today on any new proceedings. I assume he's serving his suspension as of this moment... meaning, he's not permitted at any Cowboys facilities?

Of course, a court ruling could change that at any moment, but for this moment he's serving his suspension, right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I kind of expected to hear something by today on any new proceedings. I assume he's serving his suspension as of this moment... meaning, he's not permitted at any Cowboys facilities?

Of course, a court ruling could change that at any moment, but for this moment he's serving his suspension, right?

correct

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ialone said:

dissagree here. agree there isnt enough to convict him in a court of law, but there is enough evidence for them to believe he is guilty of violating the policy.  and thats all they need.

 

 

So what eveidence was cited to proof that he committed DV? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

images.jpg.f206b3a12a41e93d37393b73b7b410d8.jpg

Ha ha! You got me there! He should have gotten 10 games

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Something had to of happened  I dont care if he was charged or not .  I cant see the NFL going that nuts over this .  Tiffany's problem is just like most victims that think they are in love . She waited to long  and then was not thining with her head, but anger when she wanted to add the blackmail stuff in.  That right there could easily put a DAs office to say they wont take it , as it would be a 50/50 shot to win . DAs dont like to lose or waste time and money . 

Trust as I know ... I have seen a clear cut Rape case and young man got away with it  because it was difficult for them to win.  Is it as bad as some people make it out to be ? No  I dont think its like ray rice beating or anything like that .  My question would be Why is Mixon not in any trouble or that Conley guy ?   Maybe just maybe because they did not have enough evidence like they do with Zeke .  thats the things JJ and Zeke need to bring up .  Also did  JOhnny 8ball  Get a DV suspension ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, NE.Jon said:

Something had to of happened  I dont care if he was charged or not .  I cant see the NFL going that nuts over this .  Tiffany's problem is just like most victims that think they are in love . She waited to long  and then was not thining with her head, but anger when she wanted to add the blackmail stuff in.  That right there could easily put a DAs office to say they wont take it , as it would be a 50/50 shot to win . DAs dont like to lose or waste time and money . 

Trust as I know ... I have seen a clear cut Rape case and young man got away with it  because it was difficult for them to win.  Is it as bad as some people make it out to be ? No  I dont think its like ray rice beating or anything like that .  My question would be Why is Mixon not in any trouble or that Conley guy ?   Maybe just maybe because they did not have enough evidence like they do with Zeke .  thats the things JJ and Zeke need to bring up .  Also did  JOhnny 8ball  Get a DV suspension ?

They have a video of mixon knocking the girl out, so I'd say they have more evidence than they have on Zeke. The evidence they have on Zeke consist solely of  his gf wen't to report him she had bruises on her arms she said came from him....that's it.

 she gave the name of a witness and while being interviewed admitted that she had been asked to lie and that Zeke's gf had gotten in a bar fight the night before...the police go to the bar where it supposedly happened, and multiple whitnesses said she had been in a bar fight.....so it wasn't only the blackmail attempt, she was caught lying multiple times.

if you read the NFL's report, the evidence they cite 1.  she had bruises, 2. the medical examiner they used said they were consistent with bruises from DV and that from the pictures they looked to have occurs when she said she was with Zeke. 3. They found her more believable. 4. Zeke could not prove he did not do it.

the hole in that evidence they list is. 1. They only had one investigator meet the accuser and she said the accuser was not truthful and lied to her multiple times and she recommended not suspending Zeke and the medical examiner admitted there is no way she could say what caused the bruises or when they occurred from the pictures. 

So you are left with she had bruises amd Zeke could not prove he did not do it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

They have a video of mixon knocking the girl out, so I'd say they have more evidence than they have on Zeke. The evidence they have on Zeke consist solely of  his gf wen't to report him she had bruises on her arms she said came from him....that's it.

 she gave the name of a witness and while being interviewed admitted that she had been asked to lie and that Zeke's gf had gotten in a bar fight the night before...the police go to the bar where it supposedly happened, and multiple whitnesses said she had been in a bar fight.....so it wasn't only the blackmail attempt, she was caught lying multiple times.

if you read the NFL's report, the evidence they cite 1.  she had bruises, 2. the medical examiner they used said they were consistent with bruises from DV and that from the pictures they looked to have occurs when she said she was with Zeke. 3. They found her more believable. 4. Zeke could not prove he did not do it.

the hole in that evidence they list is. 1. They only had one investigator meet the accuser and she said the accuser was not truthful and lied to her multiple times and she recommended not suspending Zeke and the medical examiner admitted there is no way she could say what caused the bruises or when they occurred from the pictures. 

So you are left with she had bruises amd Zeke could not prove he did not do it.

 

I just have a hard time with the whole with Hunt ... yes she lied.  But that does not mean all those came from the bar fight.  The Police were called out how many times ?   You sure Ohio not protecting their star at all ?  Something  is missing  and Im sure something will come out to show why this is happening.  Maybe its being blocked by Zeke/ Cowboys   who knows..   Its just crazy to think they would go through all of this  for nothing . 

 

Have you read this ?    https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/29/16151642/ezekiel-elliott-timeline-domestic-violence-police-report-nfl-suspension-appeal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

So what eveidence was cited to proof that he committed DV? 

Your asking me? Has all the evidence been disclosed to the public?

All we know for sure is they believe they have enough evidence... Say it with me... Thats all that matters here. 

 

Your opinion, my opinion, are just that, opinions. They have the evidence, they made the decision. They have that power. 

 

Now with the fact they did suspend him, and with his history that we have the facts on.... I wouldn't fight for him. The only reason you are is because you are a cowboy fan. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

They have a video of mixon knocking the girl out, so I'd say they have more evidence than they have on Zeke. The evidence they have on Zeke consist solely of  his gf wen't to report him she had bruises on her arms she said came from him....that's it.

 she gave the name of a witness and while being interviewed admitted that she had been asked to lie and that Zeke's gf had gotten in a bar fight the night before...the police go to the bar where it supposedly happened, and multiple whitnesses said she had been in a bar fight.....so it wasn't only the blackmail attempt, she was caught lying multiple times.

if you read the NFL's report, the evidence they cite 1.  she had bruises, 2. the medical examiner they used said they were consistent with bruises from DV and that from the pictures they looked to have occurs when she said she was with Zeke. 3. They found her more believable. 4. Zeke could not prove he did not do it.

the hole in that evidence they list is. 1. They only had one investigator meet the accuser and she said the accuser was not truthful and lied to her multiple times and she recommended not suspending Zeke and the medical examiner admitted there is no way she could say what caused the bruises or when they occurred from the pictures. 

So you are left with she had bruises amd Zeke could not prove he did not do it.

 

 The video is public.... so we know what Mixon did, we all saw it.

But in your argument, we dont have video of Zeke, so it didn't happen?   

 

Now again... say it with me... THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE. THEY HAVE THAT POWER.  THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.... THEY CAN DO IT.

 

The CBA gives them the power to do this on less than  the evidence that would be needed in a court of law for a conviction of DV. 

 

Kind of like Civil suit against OJ SIMPSON versus his Murder trail......  two different outcomes  same evidence, different rules. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what Tiffany has said , it seems this happened mostly when he was drinking  and from also what we know probably on drugs.  People make poor choices when they drink .... My thing is She called the cops on him multiply times .  Why did he not just leave and get out of there then ?    It could lead to a lot of reasons ..  Zeke was also caught I think lying during one of the Interviews ... but then his lawyer stepped in and said he misunderstood question.  Also  I have no doubt  money has been given to people .....   The whole bar fight thing also did happen but the Some of the photos were taking before that event   and the Inuries matched her story .    Its just a reallly really weird and messed up thing .   Something must of happened  to what extent  we will never know ... well maybe if Zeke does one of those Celebrity Rehabs  years from now to get off Booze and coke 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, NE.Jon said:

I just have a hard time with the whole with Hunt ... yes she lied.  But that does not mean all those came from the bar fight.  The Police were called out how many times ?   You sure Ohio not protecting their star at all ?  Something  is missing  and Im sure something will come out to show why this is happening.  Maybe its being blocked by Zeke/ Cowboys   who knows..   Its just crazy to think they would go through all of this  for nothing . 

 

Have you read this ?    https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/29/16151642/ezekiel-elliott-timeline-domestic-violence-police-report-nfl-suspension-appeal

Yeah, and if you read through it, it constantly cites the interview the accuser had with the NFL's lead investigator Mrs. Roberts, and the  medical examiner's  opioniom about the bruising amd when they happened as the reasons this NFL believed the accuser.

Sounds like he likely did it.....

until you realize that after this article was written Zeke filed an appeal. The NFL tried to block both Mrs.Roberts and the ME from testifying. The NFL tried to argue that both fully agreed with the NFL's report, the court ordered them to testify amd Mrs. Roberts testified that she did not believe the accuser, found her to be untruthful and then was uninvited to the rest of the meetings relative to Zeke and them when confronted on the stand by an expert witness the ME admitted they could not be sure of when the bruises happened or how....

the fact that the NFL tried to block them From testifying...their own people, tells me all I need to know about the integrity of their investigation.

then you read through thre rest and every witness, even strangers back him up.

there is litterally no evidence he gave her any bruises.

,that said, we don't know for sure. Zeke had a speeding incident amd a fight at a nightclub...I hear he parties a ton amd I'm worried he's headed down the wrong path, and I get that the NFL does not like that or the attention a DV accusation brings...if they'd have given him 2-4 games for conduct detrimental and a warning that basically if Zeke farts he's in for 8-10 more games...that would,have been fair.

if the NFL had not been dishonest and tried to hide witnesses it would not look so bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Ialone said:

 The video is public.... so we know what Mixon did, we all saw it.

But in your argument, we dont have video of Zeke, so it didn't happen?   

 

Now again... say it with me... THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE. THEY HAVE THAT POWER.  THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.... THEY CAN DO IT.

 

The CBA gives them the power to do this on less than  the evidence that would be needed in a court of law for a conviction of DV. 

 

Kind of like Civil suit against OJ SIMPSON versus his Murder trail......  two different outcomes  same evidence, different rules. 

No, you don't have to have a video...but you probably should have some evidence...I mean it's a he said she said case where she lies to the police, asks other people to lie, and then when they do find people,that were around they say nothing happened.

Now read this very slowly........that has nothing to do with rather the NFL can suspend him or not. Everyone agrees they have that right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, NE.Jon said:

From what Tiffany has said , it seems this happened mostly when he was drinking  and from also what we know probably on drugs.  People make poor choices when they drink .... My thing is She called the cops on him multiply times .  Why did he not just leave and get out of there then ?    It could lead to a lot of reasons ..  Zeke was also caught I think lying during one of the Interviews ... but then his lawyer stepped in and said he misunderstood question.  Also  I have no doubt  money has been given to people .....   The whole bar fight thing also did happen but the Some of the photos were taking before that event   and the Inuries matched her story .    Its just a reallly really weird and messed up thing .   Something must of happened  to what extent  we will never know ... well maybe if Zeke does one of those Celebrity Rehabs  years from now to get off Booze and coke 

His lie was they asked him if the police had been out before, he said no, but they had been out one time weeks before., he thought they meant that week, not ever....there really is no reason to lie about that...what does it by him? Sounds like a misunderstanding.....

her lie was denying there was a bar fight, there was, asking multiple,people, lie and say they'd seen  him abuse her etc...

one of of those things is far more dishonest that the other....

the four witness from the parking lot were strangers the police rounded up when they got there.....not sure How Zeke would have paid them off..

that's a lot of conjecture 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

Yeah, and if you read through it, it constantly cites the interview the accuser had with the NFL's lead investigator Mrs. Roberts, and the  medical examiner's  opioniom about the bruising amd when they happened as the reasons this NFL believed the accuser.

Sounds like he likely did it.....

until you realize that after this article was written Zeke filed an appeal. The NFL tried to block both Mrs.Roberts and the ME from testifying. The NFL tried to argue that both fully agreed with the NFL's report, the court ordered them to testify amd Mrs. Roberts testified that she did not believe the accuser, found her to be untruthful and then was uninvited to the rest of the meetings relative to Zeke and them when confronted on the stand by an expert witness the ME admitted they could not be sure of when the bruises happened or how....

the fact that the NFL tried to block them From testifying...their own people, tells me all I need to know about the integrity of their investigation.

then you read through thre rest and every witness, even strangers back him up.

there is litterally no evidence he gave her any bruises.

,that said, we don't know for sure. Zeke had a speeding incident amd a fight at a nightclub...I hear he parties a ton amd I'm worried he's headed down the wrong path, and I get that the NFL does not like that or the attention a DV accusation brings...if they'd have given him 2-4 games for conduct detrimental and a warning that basically if Zeke farts he's in for 8-10 more games...that would,have been fair.

if the NFL had not been dishonest and tried to hide witnesses it would not look so bad.

Both sides have inconsistent stories .  It does the NFL and the fight against DV any good .   I have a lot of experience when it comes to DV  seeing more in my life time then any child and adult should of .   Victims act crazy and do some stupid crap ... even more if they are in love .  The first time she called the cops of even  2nd  Zeke should of got out of there . But he stayed and let it all continue .    The ME and other investgator said they belived that 2 or 3  of the 5 inccdents seemed to match with DV and Tiffanys accusations / reports.   

You cant trust  the Ohio police or judcial system ... Stuff like that is bad for the  University .. which in turn bad for the town as well.  Colleges bring a lot of money to towns and areas  they are located by .  WOuld not be first time Police/ School sweeps stuff under the rug .  We all know that Zeke liked to party ... His partying was so bad Joey Bosa had to get away from him . More prrof the college hide crap , his admitted drug use   and underage drinking.  he said he only did coke , pot and drank..... I have a feeling it more then that because he likes raves.

Hell I would not be suprised if Zeke Honstly does not remember clearly and thinks he dint do nutin . Drinking and drugs  F with your mind  :(   I know a lot of people that go full Jekle and Hyde  when they do stuff.  FFS he is supposed ot be a young man growing up , but his father had to move from St Louis  to an apartment close to OSU  to keep him out of trouble .  Witnesses are easily bribed or threatned . 

 

But in the end it does  matter either way ... GODell belives there is enough to charge himn with mis conduct or whatever  and he has the power to do it .  I even talked this over wiht my wife many times... It has to be the most Fed up case ever .  But of course Zeke did himself no favors while being investigated ... All the Partying and other small incidences during .  Maybe the NFL should of Cited charging him with something different. But  the Pulling Top Down and pot shop would of been enough alone for some games  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

No, you don't have to have a video...but you probably should have some evidence...I mean it's a he said she said case where she lies to the police, asks other people to lie, and then when they do find people,that were around they say nothing happened.

Now read this very slowly........that has nothing to do with rather the NFL can suspend him or not. Everyone agrees they have that right

No they have the right... It was collectively bargained.  Thats a fact. It's been proven in a court of law before. 

You just dont like it. 

 

Tough beans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, NE.Jon said:

Both sides have inconsistent stories .  It does the NFL and the fight against DV any good .   I have a lot of experience when it comes to DV  seeing more in my life time then any child and adult should of .   Victims act crazy and do some stupid crap ... even more if they are in love .  The first time she called the cops of even  2nd  Zeke should of got out of there . But he stayed and let it all continue .    The ME and other investgator said they belived that 2 or 3  of the 5 inccdents seemed to match with DV and Tiffanys accusations / reports.   

You cant trust  the Ohio police or judcial system ... Stuff like that is bad for the  University .. which in turn bad for the town as well.  Colleges bring a lot of money to towns and areas  they are located by .  WOuld not be first time Police/ School sweeps stuff under the rug .  We all know that Zeke liked to party ... His partying was so bad Joey Bosa had to get away from him . More prrof the college hide crap , his admitted drug use   and underage drinking.  he said he only did coke , pot and drank..... I have a feeling it more then that because he likes raves.

Hell I would not be suprised if Zeke Honstly does not remember clearly and thinks he dint do nutin . Drinking and drugs  F with your mind  :(   I know a lot of people that go full Jekle and Hyde  when they do stuff.  FFS he is supposed ot be a young man growing up , but his father had to move from St Louis  to an apartment close to OSU  to keep him out of trouble .  Witnesses are easily bribed or threatned . 

 

But in the end it does  matter either way ... GODell belives there is enough to charge himn with mis conduct or whatever  and he has the power to do it .  I even talked this over wiht my wife many times... It has to be the most Fed up case ever .  But of course Zeke did himself no favors while being investigated ... All the Partying and other small incidences during .  Maybe the NFL should of Cited charging him with something different. But  the Pulling Top Down and pot shop would of been enough alone for some games  

There was no other investigator that met with the accuser...only one did and she said other oath she did not believe the accuser period, and again the  E testified that despite what they said in the report amd the photos backing up 2-3 of the incidents, they really could not be sure and that there was no scientific method to prove what they said in the initial report.

anyway, you are being reasonable...I have some experience myself, amd yes, while accusers can act crazy amd colleges and campus cops will cover for athletes you have to remember that the case was turned over to a DA, and while they might be willing to use kid gloves in punishing athletes they generally don't when it comes  to actually filings charges, especially relative to DV because if you let something like that go and she really gets hurt or god forbid killed later.....your career is over. I can speak from personal expieriwnce that there is literally no burden of proof  to charge someone with DV what DA's usually do is even if there is no evidence they file the charge, then meet with the guy, have them sign an agreement that they will never abuse the female again or the charge will be reinstated...that"s at a minimum....they will usually charge someone based solely off an accusation. In this case they wouldn't because she liked so much.

i think we both agree it was reasonable to give him a few games for all the other little incidents, i wouldn't even think the 6 was nuts if the NFL had not been so dishonest throughout the process, that has me pissed off more than anything. It's like a NFL front office insider said. They decide their punishmemt and then conduct their investigation to make it fit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites