VaBeach_Eagle

Speculation on Eli's future with the Giants (Benched for Geno in Week 13, Starting again in Week 14)

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Ok.  I've never been an Eli basher though.  Defended him even when NY fans wanted to run him out of town. 

 

But do you deny he's the worst qb in the NFC East right now?  Go team by team around the league and ask yourself how many guys you would bench for Eli in 2017.

I suspect if Derek Carr's injury had been season-ending, the Raiders would have traded for Eli.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

Look what happened when the Giants FINALLY adjusted and switched up the OL. He started looking like a pretty good QB again, and thats because they've not only started giving him a bit more time, but also because they've finally, after an entire 2016 season of using an 11 personnel grouping 91% of the time(not an exaggeration), changed it up, and are showing different looks. Its hard to say who the worst in the NFCE QB is, because none of the QB's are looking particularly strong.

Isn't is interesting that it seems those who consistently criticize Eli get him better than those who either love him or hate him?

I said this exact same thing to many in my inner circle and such. Didn't dare say it on here because I would have been laughed off the forum but the Giants line, while lousy, needed tweaks, not a complete overhaul.

Everyone is pointing fingers at Flowers and he deserves the blasting but at the same time, how many elite left tackles are there in this league?

There's so few that well past their prime guys like Whiteworth and Penn are getting big lucrative contracts/extensions.

Half the lines in the league are barely at par. There's more to pass protection than just having great offensive lineman.

Defensive players have even come out and stated that the Giants offense was ridiculously predictable and they were able to sit on routes and pin their ears back.

In the 4th quarter of week 3, after some tweaks and a few extremely rare pass plays of over 15 yards, magically the offense opened up..

The first 2 games of the season, Eli was getting blasted, how he's barely been touched in the last 2 games. 

Same players, just switched it up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I suspect if Derek Carr's injury had been season-ending, the Raiders would have traded for Eli.

Of course.  And I've even said before that Eli can still take you places if he had a great D and running game.  But that's exactly what replacement level Qb's can do.  If you go down the list of Qb's in the NFC and can't find at least 10 you'd take over Eli, then your an Eli homer.  That's a steep drop for a guy who was top 5 NFC Qb for a decade.  Eli in his peak was about as good as Matt Ryan is right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Isn't is interesting that it seems those who consistently criticize Eli get him better than those who either love him or hate him?

I said this exact same thing to many in my inner circle and such. Didn't dare say it on here because I would have been laughed off the forum but the Giants line, while lousy, needed tweaks, not a complete overhaul.

Everyone is pointing fingers at Flowers and he deserves the blasting but at the same time, how many elite left tackles are there in this league?

There's so few that well past their prime guys like Whiteworth and Penn are getting big lucrative contracts/extensions.

Half the lines in the league are barely at par. There's more to pass protection than just having great offensive lineman.

Defensive players have even come out and stated that the Giants offense was ridiculously predictable and they were able to sit on routes and pin their ears back.

In the 4th quarter of week 3, after some tweaks and a few extremely rare pass plays of over 15 yards, magically the offense opened up..

The first 2 games of the season, Eli was getting blasted, how he's barely been touched in the last 2 games. 

Same players, just switched it up.

O-Line is awful but part of it is Eli just doesn't like to get hit anymore.  He's bailing on plays early and I don't blame him because as a statue NFL pocket passer he has taken a BEATING in his career.  That's a problem because that is exactly what Eli's game was built around, hanging in the pocket, staring down the barrel of the rush and delivering strikes downfield. 

 

Is he wily enough to adjust to a short passing game and extend his career a few years?  Yeah, sure.  But this is not the same Eli.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Of course.  And I've even said before that Eli can still take you places if he had a great D and running game.  But that's exactly what replacement level Qb's can do.  If you go down the list of Qb's in the NFC and can't find at least 10 you'd take over Eli, then your an Eli homer.  That's a steep drop for a guy who was top 5 NFC Qb for a decade.  Eli in his peak was about as good as Matt Ryan is right now.

What QB wouldn't thrive with a great D and a great running game? How many of them would thrive behind an OL like the one he's been behind since 2011, and especially the versions for 2016 and 2017? Now on some level, I agree with you that he's a part of the problem, because he does indeed seem to keep hearing footsteps and feeling a rush when there is no rush, which causes him to rush throws and panic. He has been playing a part in the issues, but nowhere near to the extent that you believe it to be.

And wait a sec.....did you really call him a top 5 QB in the NFC for a decade?! In which universe did that occur?:roll:

In 2011, he was without a doubt in the top 5. Otherwise, I wouldn't have even had him in the top 10 in the past decade. No one who isn't a homer, or doesn't watch him play even semi-regularly, would disagree with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I suspect if Derek Carr's injury had been season-ending, the Raiders would have traded for Eli.

Not with that pesky no trade clause that Eli has in his contract

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

O-Line is awful but part of it is Eli just doesn't like to get hit anymore.  He's bailing on plays early and I don't blame him because as a statue NFL pocket passer he has taken a BEATING in his career.  That's a problem because that is exactly what Eli's game was built around, hanging in the pocket, staring down the barrel of the rush and delivering strikes downfield. 

 

Is he wily enough to adjust to a short passing game and extend his career a few years?  Yeah, sure.  But this is not the same Eli.

 

 

This I can agree with.

That being said, the Giants have been running the WCO short passing game since Mcadoo first showed up as OC.

In the first year, Eli played fairly well after having the worst year of his career the year before. The following year, Eli has the best statistical season of his career.

Then...

Mcadoo takes over as HC, gets in over his head and his offense became predictable.

Again. Look at weeks 1 and 2 compared to weeks 3 and 4.

A shake up of the Oline, a little more variation to the formation and playcalling and *poof* Eli is playing well.

Is he the same Eli as old? No.

Should the Giants be seeking his eventual replacement? Yes.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, vincent_NJG said:

This I can agree with.

That being said, the Giants have been running the WCO short passing game since Mcadoo first showed up as OC.

In the first year, Eli played fairly well after having the worst year of his career the year before. The following year, Eli has the best statistical season of his career.

Then...

Mcadoo takes over as HC, gets in over his head and his offense became predictable.

Again. Look at weeks 1 and 2 compared to weeks 3 and 4.

A shake up of the Oline, a little more variation to the formation and playcalling and *poof* Eli is playing well.

Is he the same Eli as old? No.

Should the Giants be seeking his eventual replacement? Yes.

 

 

I think one big thing that a lot of people are overlooking is that after TC left, whatever thumbprint he had on the offense went with him. This current abomination that McAdoo brought in is all his. Tom obviously had some kind of input on the offense, because the combination of he and Ben having a say in the design worked like a mofo.

As far as Eli's replacement, this disaster of a season may be a blessing in disguise in order to find the next guy. I dont follow college ball, but from what I've been reading, there are some good QB's likely coming out next year. If they wind up with a top 5 pick, maybe they get one, but they REALLY have to get one soon. At the same time, if things really take a major dive this season and they dont win more than a game or two, I'd love to see what Davis Webb can do. Who knows? Maybe he's the next guy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

I think one big thing that a lot of people are overlooking is that after TC left, whatever thumbprint he had on the offense went with him. This current abomination that McAdoo brought in is all his. Tom obviously had some kind of input on the offense, because the combination of he and Ben having a say in the design worked like a mofo.

As far as Eli's replacement, this disaster of a season may be a blessing in disguise in order to find the next guy. I dont follow college ball, but from what I've been reading, there are some good QB's likely coming out next year. If they wind up with a top 5 pick, maybe they get one, but they REALLY have to get one soon. At the same time, if things really take a major dive this season and they dont win more than a game or two, I'd love to see what Davis Webb can do. Who knows? Maybe he's the next guy...

Yep. There's always a silver lining. 

The 2018 qb draft class should be loaded and with teams like Miami, San Diego, Pittsburgh, Jets, Minnesota, and possibly Denver all looking for future franchise QBs it would be nice to have the pick of the litter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

What QB wouldn't thrive with a great D and a great running game? How many of them would thrive behind an OL like the one he's been behind since 2011, and especially the versions for 2016 and 2017? Now on some level, I agree with you that he's a part of the problem, because he does indeed seem to keep hearing footsteps and feeling a rush when there is no rush, which causes him to rush throws and panic. He has been playing a part in the issues, but nowhere near to the extent that you believe it to be.

And wait a sec.....did you really call him a top 5 QB in the NFC for a decade?! In which universe did that occur?:roll:

In 2011, he was without a doubt in the top 5. Otherwise, I wouldn't have even had him in the top 10 in the past decade. No one who isn't a homer, or doesn't watch him play even semi-regularly, would disagree with that.

Yes top 5 NFC.  Top 10-12 NFL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Yes top 5 NFC.  Top 10-12 NFL.

:lol:

Maybe top 10-12 in the NFL occasionally throughout the years, but top 5 in the NFC? For a decade?? You most have smoked some bad crack, dude...

As I said earlier, in 2011, he was fantastic, and I'd never argue top 5 in the NFC, or even the NFL in that season.

Throughout his career, he's been so wildly inconsistent, and made so many idiotic decisions and terrible throws, that no one in their right mind is going to agree with your assessment of him. He's a very good QB that shows flashes of greatness once in a while, and as far as I'm concerned, the Giants have been lucky to have him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

:lol:

Maybe top 10-12 in the NFL occasionally throughout the years, but top 5 in the NFC? For a decade?? You most have smoked some bad crack, dude...

As I said earlier, in 2011, he was fantastic, and I'd never argue top 5 in the NFC, or even the NFL in that season.

Throughout his career, he's been so wildly inconsistent, and made so many idiotic decisions and terrible throws, that no one in their right mind is going to agree with your assessment of him. He's a very good QB that shows flashes of greatness once in a while, and as far as I'm concerned, the Giants have been lucky to have him.

Throughout his entire career, it has always shocked me how little Giants fans know about Eli Manning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Throughout his entire career, it has always shocked me how little Giants fans know about Eli Manning.

This should be good

Ok.....what dont I know about Eli Manning?

Before you begin, I dont give a damn about your opinions of him or how great/terrible you think he is/was. Bring facts, and nothing else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

This should be good

Ok.....what dont I know about Eli Manning?

Before you begin, I dont give a damn about your opinions of him or how great/terrible you think he is/was. Bring facts, and nothing else.

Most non homer fans would say the same thing. He has been a very good QB who has elevated his play to great for stretches, but also has played very bad for equal stretches. He is too inconsistent to call great. None of this is a secret.

 

Probably the most up and down player i have ever seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

This should be good

Ok.....what dont I know about Eli Manning?

Before you begin, I dont give a damn about your opinions of him or how great/terrible you think he is/was. Bring facts, and nothing else.

Well he also thinks Colin kap is good so I wouldn't even listen to him lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, boogyman said:

Most non homer fans would say the same thing. He has been a very good QB who has elevated his play to great for stretches, but also has played very bad for equal stretches. He is too inconsistent to call great. None of this is a secret.

 

Probably the most up and down player i have ever seen.

He's been consistently inconsistent.  He'd have stretches of bad games or great games but at the end of the year almost always graded out as a top 10-12 NFL Qb (Top ~5 or so in NFC which is usually weaker Qb conference).  But he's been bad to average for a year plus now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

He's been consistently inconsistent.  He'd have stretches of bad games or great games but at the end of the year almost always graded out as a top 10-12 NFL Qb (Top ~5 or so in NFC which is usually weaker Qb conference).  But he's been bad to average for a year plus now.

I’ll ask again: what don’t i know about Eli Manning? I’ll keep asking until you answer with facts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Throughout his entire career, it has always shocked me how little Giants fans know about Eli Manning.

 

16 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

This should be good

Ok.....what dont I know about Eli Manning?

Before you begin, I dont give a damn about your opinions of him or how great/terrible you think he is/was. Bring facts, and nothing else.

 

10 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

I’ll ask again: what don’t i know about Eli Manning? I’ll keep asking until you answer with facts

Still waiting to be educated on all things Eli Manning...:mellow2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He is a borderline HoF guy based on stat compiling. His regular season record is not great. He does not win in the playoffs too often.

He is going to win a few games every year by elevating his team. He will also lose a few games with boneheaded plays.

He did play very well at the same time his defense played very well and got 2 Super Bowl wins. This can't be overstated.

The 2007 and 2011 Giants may be the 2 worst teams* to win a Super Bowl and you have to give the QB a ton of credit for getting those wins.

*(Pythagorean wins of 8.8 and 7.9)

It is fair to say that luck was also a huge factor (Asante drop, Kyle Williams existence) but he still had to make the plays* to put his team in position.

*15 TDs and 2 picks in those 2007/2011 playoffs combined. (3 TDs and 7 picks in his other 4 playoff games)

I think the Tyree Helmet catch is the second most impressive part of that play. Eli surviving in that pocket was crazy.

 

His reward for all that is to have to play behind one of the worst O-lines in NFL history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2017 at 3:50 PM, dawkins4prez said:

Throughout his entire career, it has always shocked me how little Giants fans know about Eli Manning.

 

On 10/6/2017 at 4:18 PM, Gmen4ever said:

This should be good

Ok.....what dont I know about Eli Manning?

Before you begin, I dont give a damn about your opinions of him or how great/terrible you think he is/was. Bring facts, and nothing else.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ShakeNBake36 said:

Definitely shaping up as the year to draft his replacement with several possible top 10 caliber QBs

Yep. Season is over. 0-5 and the best player is out for the season. 

They can begin their search for a new HC early as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2017 at 11:49 AM, Gmen4ever said:

I think one big thing that a lot of people are overlooking is that after TC left, whatever thumbprint he had on the offense went with him. This current abomination that McAdoo brought in is all his. Tom obviously had some kind of input on the offense, because the combination of he and Ben having a say in the design worked like a mofo.

As far as Eli's replacement, this disaster of a season may be a blessing in disguise in order to find the next guy. I dont follow college ball, but from what I've been reading, there are some good QB's likely coming out next year. If they wind up with a top 5 pick, maybe they get one, but they REALLY have to get one soon. At the same time, if things really take a major dive this season and they dont win more than a game or two, I'd love to see what Davis Webb can do. Who knows? Maybe he's the next guy...

I don't usually agree with you, in fact I almost never do.  And I for sure will look back on Eli's day's in NY far differently than you will BUT I at least partially agree with you on this.  Not on the Davis Webb part.  He's not the future.  (At least he shouldn't be.)  The part about this disaster may have a bright side.   I hear there are some good QB's coming out.  You get a chance to get a franchise number 1 pick you gotta take it.  So what I think they should do in bullet points.

- Fire Reese tonight.

- Trade David Webb after the year for a draft pick (get him some time if you think he's good, let Eli start to keep his streak or whatever but get Webb some time to audition for other teams). 

- Use that top pick on the next franchise QB and look to start him day one next year.

- So yes sadly cut Manning and free up that money on our cap. 

- Use the money from Mannings contract and the rest of the draft to fix the friggen OL. 

 

Maybe then we have a future.

8 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Yep. Season is over. 0-5 and the best player is out for the season. 

They can begin their search for a new HC early as well

Replacing the GM is way more important.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now