Shocker54

Lets all laugh at the Giants

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This is a fact.  The first time the Giants played the Eagles last year Philly won a 60 yard field goal.  95% of the time the Giants win that game.  Last year was a magical season for the Eagles.  It was everything a first championship season should be for any fan but it was last year.  Don't make assumptions that because  things went one way last year they will next year.  I've watched my team win 4 times.  They only made the playoffs the following season once, and to maintain perspective the 86 team was not the team that made the playoffs the following year.  That's how hard it is.

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On 5/2/2018 at 5:07 PM, dawkins4prez said:

I'm also factoring in Hernandez, Solder and a better coaching staff.  Engram in his 2nd year...

 

But yeah, that's th difference between a GREAT back and a franchise, top 10 Qb.  The back takes you to the wild card, the Qb takes you to the SB.

No one is denying that. The Giants had their worst season in my lifetime. Getting to the Superbowl in 2018 isn't the realistic goal for the Giants right now. It's improving in general which on paper, they've done.

I think I speak for the great majority of Giants fans when I say that a Wildcard berth would be a satisfying 2018 season.

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1 hour ago, vincent_NJG said:

No one is denying that. The Giants had their worst season in my lifetime. Getting to the Superbowl in 2018 isn't the realistic goal for the Giants right now. It's improving in general which on paper, they've done.

I think I speak for the great majority of Giants fans when I say that a Wildcard berth would be a satisfying 2018 season.

Hell, with a completely new offense and defense, an essentially new OL,  and an entirely new coaching staff, I'd be very happy(and surprised)with 7 or 8 wins

Its gonna take another year or two to make them competitive, at least IMO. You cant fix a major ish show in one offseason

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The Giants will be improved this year, but they should've drafted a QB in Round 1 over a RB.  If you are in the top 5 with good QB prospects and you need one, it makes sense to address QB.  So many great RBs that never lead their teams to SB wins and it's a lot easier to find a good RB in the middle rounds compared to other positions.  Dallas will probably be the doormat of the division this year. 

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1 hour ago, Gmen4ever said:

Hell, with a completely new offense and defense, an essentially new OL,  and an entirely new coaching staff, I'd be very happy(and surprised)with 7 or 8 wins

Its gonna take another year or two to make them competitive, at least IMO. You cant fix a major ish show in one offseason

OLines gel surprisingly quick and Eli knows every offense under the sun.  If Nate Solder plays like a top 10 Left Tackle, something he never did until last year, then the Giants should score some points.  If the secondary can bounce back and jump on people, then they have a formula to win some games.

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On 5/2/2018 at 3:50 PM, Happyfoosball said:

This is a fact.  The first time the Giants played the Eagles last year Philly won a 60 yard field goal.  95% of the time the Giants win that game.  Last year was a magical season for the Eagles.  It was everything a first championship season should be for any fan but it was last year.  Don't make assumptions that because  things went one way last year they will next year.  I've watched my team win 4 times.  They only made the playoffs the following season once, and to maintain perspective the 86 team was not the team that made the playoffs the following year.  That's how hard it is.

I don’t think your taking into account the state of the NFCE

The eagles are head and shoulders better than the other 3 teams. Starters, depth, and coaching. 

 

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On 5/2/2018 at 6:50 PM, Happyfoosball said:

This is a fact.  The first time the Giants played the Eagles last year Philly won a 60 yard field goal.  95% of the time the Giants win that game.  

If the field goal was no good, the game would have gone to overtime. How is that you think the Giants would have had a 95% chance of winning the overtime? Generally it's about 50%, with perhaps about 55% in favor of the home team.

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26 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

If the field goal was no good, the game would have gone to overtime. How is that you think the Giants would have had a 95% chance of winning the overtime? Generally it's about 50%, with perhaps about 55% in favor of the home team.

:roll:

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10 hours ago, CaliEagle said:

The Giants will be improved this year, but they should've drafted a QB in Round 1 over a RB.  If you are in the top 5 with good QB prospects and you need one, it makes sense to address QB.  So many great RBs that never lead their teams to SB wins and it's a lot easier to find a good RB in the middle rounds compared to other positions.  Dallas will probably be the doormat of the division this year. 

Only if you love the QB do you take him. We're assuming that the Giants passed and surefire franchise qbs.

How many top 10 QBs have we seen bust hard over and over again? Just in the last few years.. how has Jake Locker, Ryan Tannenhill, Blaine Gabbert, RG3, Blake Bortles, Christian Ponder, Mark Sanchez, etc really worked out? 

Even with top 2 picks Jameis and Mariota, the jury is still kind of out on them.

When Dallas drafted Zeke, people were flipping out about them not trading back to fill more holes or trading back into the 1st to take Paxton Lynch. Looking back, I'd say they did just fine with Zeke and Dak.

Imagine if in 2013, the Eagles took EJ Manuel in the first instead of Lane Johnson. I mean c'mon... You gotta take a qb in round 1 right?

The birds landed a total stud. They loved him and so they made the moves to go get him. When you take a qb that high, you're committing to him. He becomes the face of the franchise. If he busts, everyone goes down with him.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that teams should build around a running back. Anyone with half a brain would say that a true franchise qb is far more valuable than a great running back and it's not close. The issue is how difficult it is to find that franchise qb. Just because they're at the top of the draft, doesn't mean they're going to make it in the league. Instead, build up the roster and make it easier for the next possible QB to develop. Take the pressure off him in his younger years.

What if the chargers took Michael Vick instead of Ladanian Tomlinson? One helped carry a team while their current franchise qb was able to develop with less pressure and the other flashed but never really became a real franchise qb. Oh yeah and he missed a few years because of dogfighting.

When did drafting top 10 QBs suddenly become the sure thing?

 

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Giants are not even worth the effort it takes to laugh 

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39 minutes ago, NE.Jon said:

Giants are not even worth the effort it takes to laugh 

Oh, I dunno....your posts are utterly worthless, but everyone still laughs at them. 

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13 hours ago, CaliEagle said:

The Giants will be improved this year, but they should've drafted a QB in Round 1 over a RB.  If you are in the top 5 with good QB prospects and you need one, it makes sense to address QB.  So many great RBs that never lead their teams to SB wins and it's a lot easier to find a good RB in the middle rounds compared to other positions.  Dallas will probably be the doormat of the division this year. 

Very original post...

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12 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

If the field goal was no good, the game would have gone to overtime. How is that you think the Giants would have had a 95% chance of winning the overtime? Generally it's about 50%, with perhaps about 55% in favor of the home team.

Because they had the momentum and they needed the game a lot more.  More then likely, they would have won that game.  But they didn't.  It is what it is.   

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19 hours ago, SNOORDA said:

I don’t think your taking into account the state of the NFCE

The eagles are head and shoulders better than the other 3 teams. Starters, depth, and coaching. 

 

In 86 the Giants were head and shoulders above the NFC East.  Closest team was Washington who they had beat 3x and shut out in the conference finals.  Two years ago Dallas was 13-3.  One year to the next... means nothing in todays NFL. Heck back in the 80's teams were more likely to be successful from year to year and it was still hard to repeat.  Now it's damn near impossible. 

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2 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

Because they had the momentum and they needed the game a lot more.  More then likely, they would have won that game.  But they didn't.  It is what it is.   

They needed every game the first 5 weeks more than we did (after that it didnt matter anymore) but won none of them. More then likely the home team wins in overtime. We also had like a 15 minute edge in TOP and ran the ball for almost 200 yards. You guys would have been gassed in OT. Lastly having the better kicker is a huge plus is an overtime game.

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If Eli is at the end like it seems to me, I could see a scenario with the Giants having quite a few years like the Bengals always have. Middle of the pack,  decent talent on the roster but with a mediocre QB. Being a fringe team is worse than sucking in the NFL.

 

At least this is what I am hoping for.

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On 5/5/2018 at 8:28 AM, boogyman said:

If Eli is at the end like it seems to me, I could see a scenario with the Giants having quite a few years like the Bengals always have. Middle of the pack,  decent talent on the roster but with a mediocre QB. Being a fringe team is worse than sucking in the NFL.

 

At least this is what I am hoping for.

If Eli is mediocre/bad this year then he’s gone. That opens up a good amount of cap space for the Giants to add more talent while they see if one of the two young guys is capable of taking over. 

Theres a few teams in the league with talent on the roster, but no QB, but there’s also a few teams with top notch QBs (e.g. Packers) and less talented rosters that land in the middle of the pack as well. Teams like the Rams and Eagles are in a similar situation to Seattle a few years back where they are getting great QB play without spending $30M per year. That’s the ideal situation and doesn’t happen often. It allows you stack the roster in other areas. My hope is the Giants luck out in a similar way and hit on one of these developmental guys once Eli is done. If they don’t, maybe they can build a talented enough roster that can be navigated by a middle of the pack QB. 

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11 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

If Eli is mediocre/bad this year then he’s gone. That opens up a good amount of cap space for the Giants to add more talent while they see if one of the two young guys is capable of taking over. 

Theres a few teams in the league with talent on the roster, but no QB, but there’s also a few teams with top notch QBs (e.g. Packers) and less talented rosters that land in the middle of the pack as well. Teams like the Rams and Eagles are in a similar situation to Seattle a few years back where they are getting great QB play without spending $30M per year. That’s the ideal situation and doesn’t happen often. It allows you stack the roster in other areas. My hope is the Giants luck out in a similar way and hit on one of these developmental guys once Eli is done. If they don’t, maybe they can build a talented enough roster that can be navigated by a middle of the pack QB. 

I think that's what they're going for.

Building up the roster for two reasons.

1: Give Eli one more chance(maybe 2 if he goes off)

2: have a good team to insert a young QB and pay him below value to capitalize on the surrounding talent.

Seattle's big run is coming to a close. The big name talent surrounding Russell Wilson are becoming too expensive to keep. Especially after Wilson cashed in. Same has occurred in Indy as well as Atlanta for that matter. New Orleans has been hit and miss for awhile now since so much of the cap goes to Brees.

The Eagles are fully loaded right now. In a few years, Carson Wentz's salary is going to absolutely dwarf Matt Ryan's. When that happens, it will become increasingly difficult for the eagles to keep/acquire talent to surround Wentz.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

I think that's what they're going for.

Building up the roster for two reasons.

1: Give Eli one more chance(maybe 2 if he goes off)

2: have a good team to insert a young QB and pay him below value to capitalize on the surrounding talent.

Seattle's big run is coming to a close. The big name talent surrounding Russell Wilson are becoming too expensive to keep. Especially after Wilson cashed in. Same has occurred in Indy as well as Atlanta for that matter. New Orleans has been hit and miss for awhile now since so much of the cap goes to Brees.

The Eagles are fully loaded right now. In a few years, Carson Wentz's salary is going to absolutely dwarf Matt Ryan's. When that happens, it will become increasingly difficult for the eagles to keep/acquire talent to surround Wentz.

 

 

The only team that hasn’t happened to is the Pats. Not every QB has a model wife that makes even more than he does. 

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On 5/5/2018 at 6:15 AM, Happyfoosball said:

In 86 the Giants were head and shoulders above the NFC East.  Closest team was Washington who they had beat 3x and shut out in the conference finals.  Two years ago Dallas was 13-3.  One year to the next... means nothing in todays NFL. Heck back in the 80's teams were more likely to be successful from year to year and it was still hard to repeat.  Now it's damn near impossible. 

Yeah, but...teams with elite Qb's are in it year in year, year out.  Those that don't are the ones that rise and fall.  In the NFC East there is only 1 elite Qb and his name is Carson Wentz.  So its the other teams that have to close that gap with defense, trenches, coaching etc.

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3 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Yeah, but...teams with elite Qb's are in it year in year, year out.  Those that don't are the ones that rise and fall.  In the NFC East there is only 1 elite Qb and his name is Carson Wentz.  So its the other teams that have to close that gap with defense, trenches, coaching etc.

So we’re calling him elite after 3/4 of one season playing at that level and no playoffs wins? Ok. I’m curious to see if he can repeat what he did last year and if he can stay out of the hospital. Odds say yes, but it hasn't happened yet. 

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5 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Yeah, but...teams with elite Qb's are in it year in year, year out.  Those that don't are the ones that rise and fall.  In the NFC East there is only 1 elite Qb and his name is Carson Wentz.  So its the other teams that have to close that gap with defense, trenches, coaching etc.

:lol:

I like the kid, and he’s a really good QB with a huge amount of potential, but calling him elite right now is hilarious. He’s not there yet, and hasn’t played near enough at this level to get that classification. 

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9 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

I think that's what they're going for.

Building up the roster for two reasons.

1: Give Eli one more chance(maybe 2 if he goes off)

2: have a good team to insert a young QB and pay him below value to capitalize on the surrounding talent.

Seattle's big run is coming to a close. The big name talent surrounding Russell Wilson are becoming too expensive to keep. Especially after Wilson cashed in. Same has occurred in Indy as well as Atlanta for that matter. New Orleans has been hit and miss for awhile now since so much of the cap goes to Brees.

The Eagles are fully loaded right now. In a few years, Carson Wentz's salary is going to absolutely dwarf Matt Ryan's. When that happens, it will become increasingly difficult for the eagles to keep/acquire talent to surround Wentz.

 

 

Good post, agreed.

That's why I don't understand why so many pundits were giving the Giants grief about the Barkley pick. This is 2018, not 2008.

The rookie cap, combined with the astronomical pay days that these QBs are getting, makes taking a very talented RB very wise. 

You'll keep the RB on that low pay scale, but also if your team still isn't good enough, you can likely land a rookie QB in the next draft or so. And it's not like the 1st round is the only place for getting a franchise/competitive guy.

 

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2 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

:lol:

I like the kid, and he’s a really good QB with a huge amount of potential, but calling him elite right now is hilarious. He’s not there yet, and hasn’t played near enough at this level to get that classification. 

Dude I saw him, you saw him.  Kid is legit.  I'm a guy who never called McNabb elite, not once.

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Anyone with a pair of eyes can see Wentz is the next great QB, only thing the rest of the div can hope for is injury.

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