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[News] Early Thinking On Some Roster Battles To Watch

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22 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Stine... Douglas is ideal on the outside ... especially vs the big WRs.   His best traits, balls skills and how he battles the WR.   He is perfect for underneath outside techniqe, especially with help behind him.   I would hate to see him in a position to take away the battle and let him be the guy that gives help?   Especially with that cone time, which needs change of directions.... at safety when you are in the middle of the field, you change directions more.  More decisions.   To me... just make him battle one guy, engage right away in that battle... if its pass you fight the WR for position, if its run, he engages the WR right away on the block (which we have seen him do really well)   

He is under control for 3 more years, time for development will only help him.... with Darby having one year left, why would we trade Douglas???  You never know, but doesnt make sense with having a cheap contract for 3 more years... especially looking at current cap situation?????    If you let Darby walk, plus trade Douglas ... in 2019 we could be looking at Jones, Mills, Jenkins.... with 3 question marks (McCloud could easily be released... Maddox, who knows yet vs real NFL competition, and Bausby looks good in the spring..LOL... wait LOL, football is played in the fall)   So look big picture... lets say you need 8 guys probably 10 in the secondary.   I can see bad planning by rushing to trade a cheap contract, in addition to probably losing McCloud and Darby due to $$ reasons.  But also, I really think Mills moves to safety at some point.  But even if not, I would absolutely consider him at S before Douglas.  

  At Safety you change directions less, not more than covering a WR in the slot or on the outside. Safety is more read and react, which Douglas excels at(You have 10-15 yards to react at safety). He is faster than Mills and can cover more area. He is taller, He can also match up better against TE's, which frees up Jenkins. Better yet, he probably could take over for Jenkins when he retires. To me Douglas is a perfect fit to do what Jenkins does. It is how I see it, you think otherwise which is fine....

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I like the conversation about our secondary and what positions these guys will eventually play.  You don't have to go back too far (only last year) to see that Cory Undlin and Jim Schwartz initial evaluations on players are not always accurate. A prime example of this was Patrick Robinson. They signed him in free agency after he left the Colts because of an injury filled season. The Colts had tried to use him on the outside before he had his injuries without much success. At the beginning of training camp the Eagles  tried to use him on the outside  as well even though he was rated as the second best slot receiver in the league the year before when he played for the Chargers. He was almost cut last year in training camp before Undlin and Schwartz had their epiphany and started using him where he excelled. The rest is history. Not sure at the moment where Douglas and Mills will end up but at the present time Douglas is better at rout recognition between the two and thus far Mills is the better tackler. Mills runs a 4.61 40 and Douglas runs a 4.59 40 so basically speed is about the same. Starter Rodney McLeod runs a 4.60 40 and Malchom Jenkins used to run a 4.53 40 years ago. He is probably right in step with these three guys right now. It should be interesting going forward. Since we do not know the Eagles long term plans with Darby it is hard to prognosticate with Mills and Douglas plus De'Vante Bausby is now in the equation for slot corner. It doesn't hurt his chances either that he ran a 4.35 40 when the Eagles worked him out before signing him. And then, how can you not route for a guy like S Tre Sullivan? He is a hammer when he hits you. 6' 200 pounds and he runs a 4.60 40 so he is right in the mix as far as I am concerned. Let the best man win!

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2 hours ago, stine said:

  At Safety you change directions less, not more than covering a WR in the slot or on the outside. Safety is more read and react, which Douglas excels at(You have 10-15 yards to react at safety). He is faster than Mills and can cover more area. He is taller, He can also match up better against TE's, which frees up Jenkins. Better yet, he probably could take over for Jenkins when he retires. To me Douglas is a perfect fit to do what Jenkins does. It is how I see it, you think otherwise which is fine....

Stine, I disagree.  I see safety as a position where you need to play some centerfield.  You are the last line of defense.  I don't see Douglas as a guy who is chasing down somebody else's mistakes.   I think he is physical... but physical in the sense that its better to engage him with the blocker ASAP, because he can shed that guy... which is why playing outside CB, he pretty much dominated those WRs trying to block him... at safety, its a different story.   Also, I just like the way he plays old school coverage, the trail technique where he gets between the QB and the WR.... with that, I dont think you want that from a safety, because nobody is behind you, but its exactly what Bobby Taylor was great at.  I think playing him on the outside allows him to be more aggressive, less thinking, just trust your insticts covering one guy and reading the QB.   When I say less reacting, its because he is on one guy at CB... at safety the movements may be less in terms of reacting to one guy, but the resposibility is more, so the movement can be anywhere on the field.    If you want to play man, and then put him on the slower guy or the bigger guy, I think he is good there.  

But I absolutely don't see them trading him.   Darby would go first.   He's under control for cheap for 3 years, no way they lose that.   Regardless of now, he has a great chance to play significant time the next 2 years and probably start.   Mills played safety before... that's why I think he eventually goes there.   Sometimes you just go with the obvious... to me this is all kinda obvious.    Really that Darby would be the guy out the door first if they felt all these other young CBs were stepping up.    I'll be honest, Darby does offer a different type of skill, but I liked when they had Douglas in there.  I like that physical CB style.  Plus he seems to have the best hands out of all the DBs.  He ain't going anywhere!  

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IDK... I'll make a basketball analogy .... I see Douglas as a guy who I would put on the other teams best scorer... play him on the ball.  I think you maiximize him there compared to other guys who can play "help" defense ..... I see safeties as guys giving "help" defense.  I think they see it the same way.  

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1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Stine, I disagree.  I see safety as a position where you need to play some centerfield.  You are the last line of defense.  I don't see Douglas as a guy who is chasing down somebody else's mistakes.   I think he is physical... but physical in the sense that its better to engage him with the blocker ASAP, because he can shed that guy... which is why playing outside CB, he pretty much dominated those WRs trying to block him... at safety, its a different story.   Also, I just like the way he plays old school coverage, the trail technique where he gets between the QB and the WR.... with that, I dont think you want that from a safety, because nobody is behind you, but its exactly what Bobby Taylor was great at.  I think playing him on the outside allows him to be more aggressive, less thinking, just trust your insticts covering one guy and reading the QB.   When I say less reacting, its because he is on one guy at CB... at safety the movements may be less in terms of reacting to one guy, but the resposibility is more, so the movement can be anywhere on the field.    If you want to play man, and then put him on the slower guy or the bigger guy, I think he is good there.  

But I absolutely don't see them trading him.   Darby would go first.   He's under control for cheap for 3 years, no way they lose that.   Regardless of now, he has a great chance to play significant time the next 2 years and probably start.   Mills played safety before... that's why I think he eventually goes there.   Sometimes you just go with the obvious... to me this is all kinda obvious.    Really that Darby would be the guy out the door first if they felt all these other young CBs were stepping up.    I'll be honest, Darby does offer a different type of skill, but I liked when they had Douglas in there.  I like that physical CB style.  Plus he seems to have the best hands out of all the DBs.  He ain't going anywhere!  

  I don't expect all to agree with my opinions Joe. You see this differently than me, which is fine.  I feel he will be killed with a finesse type WR on the outside. Eagles do not play press all the time, so he will be a liability when he plays off. At safety I see him playing back at times and reacting to the play without a hitch. I can also see him come down in the box and cover TE's like Gronk and Kelce which frees up Jenkins. I cannot see Mills covering any Tall TE. Again, my opinion.

   My only issue with Swartz is he says he wants to cross train the DB's so he has more flexibility, then keeps Douglas on the outside instead of seeing what he can do at Safety.  To me, this says he does not trust Douglas and I believe Douglas will not be on the team game 1. This same thing happened to Rowe. You may say Douglas was drafted with Swartz as DC, but that does not mean he has to like the player.... I hope I am wrong here, but I really have that feeling he will not be on the roster when the season starts...

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

IDK... I'll make a basketball analogy .... I see Douglas as a guy who I would put on the other teams best scorer... play him on the ball.  I think you maiximize him there compared to other guys who can play "help" defense ..... I see safeties as guys giving "help" defense.  I think they see it the same way.  

  Sidney Jones will have that duty....

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OTA's:

Both Pumphrey and Jones have been inactive the last two days of OTA's. 

Wiz playing C in Kelce's absence. Warmack filling in at LG.

Hart at RT in Johnson's absence.

Seumalo, minimally active.

Greg Ward driven out on the cart.

Ronald Darby working with 1st defense at nickel. Rasul Douglas at RCB. Jalen Mills at LCB.

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12 minutes ago, stine said:

  I don't expect all to agree with my opinions Joe. You see this differently than me, which is fine.  I feel he will be killed with a finesse type WR on the outside. Eagles do not play press all the time, so he will be a liability when he plays off. At safety I see him playing back at times and reacting to the play without a hitch. I can also see him come down in the box and cover TE's like Gronk and Kelce which frees up Jenkins. I cannot see Mills covering any Tall TE. Again, my opinion.

   My only issue with Swartz is he says he wants to cross train the DB's so he has more flexibility, then keeps Douglas on the outside instead of seeing what he can do at Safety.  To me, this says he does not trust Douglas and I believe Douglas will not be on the team game 1. This same thing happened to Rowe. You may say Douglas was drafted with Swartz as DC, but that does not mean he has to like the player.... I hope I am wrong here, but I really have that feeling he will not be on the roster when the season starts...

  Sidney Jones will have that duty....

Stine, we can make a wager here on this.    If I lose I will watch a full preseason game from start to finish and make a post about some 5th string guy.  If you lose.... you can just type once in a post on Wednesday before the first game.... "I need to relax more and not overthink everything, this is a new Eagles team, and Joe rules!" LOL   BTW... seems Douglas is running with the first team today... moving Darby in the slot.    Douglas will be your starting CB in 2020 if not 2019... book it!  

And if you want to really think a little outside of the box for a sign .... Eagles have some $$ now ... Cox was extended 2 years ago, like next week.    If by some chance Brandon Graham gets signed to an extension before camp .... you can book it that no shot of resigning Darby next year.  Further cementing Douglas position on the roster.    Again, I'm just looking at common sense with the $$$ ... I haven't heard about any "cross-training" since it was a trend in the 90s.  

Another sign ... who drafted Rowe ... Chip?     Think what you want about Schwartz, but I don't see them getting rid of a Howie and Joe Douglas guy ... I think they jumped at the chance to unload a Chip guy 2 years ago.  

And... in your scenario with Mills not covering the TE or whatever .... ok, if we agree that both Mills and Douglas would be on the field together.... if you are going to use a defense where you don't want Jenkins to be the guy (which I don't know why, I actually think the centerfield part of the game is the worst part of Jenkins game compared to all the other 50 things he does including covering the TE)  ... but if thats the case where you look to matchup man underneath, then go ahead and play Douglas on that guy. It's not playing safety, its just matching up man to man, which I think Douglas does well.  That's the point I have been trying to make, Douglas engages really well right at the line, I think Mills with his college experience would be better suited playing CF in that situation with Douglas on the guy from the beginning, much better than the other way around.  

 

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One thing that would scare me about Mills in the middle is his penchant for biting on the double move. Not just that though, but his ability to recover after biting is what would be the worrisome part. Maybe that theory is overhyped but it did seem to be a hole in our armor last season.

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1 minute ago, Swoopin' said:

One thing that would scare me about Mills in the middle is his penchant for biting on the double move. Not just that though, but his ability to recover after biting is what would be the worrisome part. Maybe that theory is overhyped but it did seem to be a hole in our armor last season.

Swoop..... he wouldn't have to play the first move if he was deep safety.  He would be the help or the deep coverage.  Underneath would be anotehr person's responsibility.   

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 Who says that Darby will be starting on the outside this year? LOL He got faked out of his jock strap again yesterday by Markus Wheaton for a deep TD. That 4.3 speed he has doesn't do him any good if he is going 4.3 seconds in the wrong direction. Maybe the slot is where he belongs. All I know is that for the last two years our defensive line has been helping out our secondary a lot with pressure up front. If you want to know just how good our secondary really is look at the game against the Giants last year in the Meadowlands and also look at the Green Bay game at home from the 2016 season and the Super Bowl this year. There is plenty of room for improvement.

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True ... in fairness... 2 of those games were against Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady .... they make a lot of secondaries look pretty bad.   The 3rd game was vs the Giants ... 3rd road game in a row, coming back from the west coast.   Just looking bog picture... same as I did when people were freaking out about Foles perfomances leading up to the playoffs ... they seemed to miss he played probably a little better than both Carr and Dak those weeks during the bad weather.  Probably out played Matt Ryan too.   Need to take things in context.   

But as for Darby ... yeah, I think he has a lot of room to improve.  He takes chances, struggles on the physical part of the game, not the best hands ...etc.  But let them battle it out.  None of them are guaranteed anything.  

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Every time I watch Darby going up against Gronk in the Super Bowl I  get a queasy feeling in my stomach like the Eagles are going to lose the game even though I already know the outcome. During the Super Bowl I was screaming at the television set in the second half to get Douglas in the game. My wife thought I was crazy or something. Well, crazier than what she is accustomed to!

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30 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Stine, we can make a wager here on this.    If I lose I will watch a full preseason game from start to finish and make a post about some 5th string guy.  If you lose.... you can just type once in a post on Wednesday before the first game.... "I need to relax more and not overthink everything, this is a new Eagles team, and Joe rules!" LOL   BTW... seems Douglas is running with the first team today... moving Darby in the slot.    Douglas will be your starting CB in 2020 if not 2019... book it!  

And if you want to really think a little outside of the box for a sign .... Eagles have some $$ now ... Cox was extended 2 years ago, like next week.    If by some chance Brandon Graham gets signed to an extension before camp .... you can book it that no shot of resigning Darby next year.  Further cementing Douglas position on the roster.    Again, I'm just looking at common sense with the $$$ ... I haven't heard about any "cross-training" since it was a trend in the 90s.  

Another sign ... who drafted Rowe ... Chip?     Think what you want about Schwartz, but I don't see them getting rid of a Howie and Joe Douglas guy ... I think they jumped at the chance to unload a Chip guy 2 years ago.  

And... in your scenario with Mills not covering the TE or whatever .... ok, if we agree that both Mills and Douglas would be on the field together.... if you are going to use a defense where you don't want Jenkins to be the guy (which I don't know why, I actually think the centerfield part of the game is the worst part of Jenkins game compared to all the other 50 things he does including covering the TE)  ... but if thats the case where you look to matchup man underneath, then go ahead and play Douglas on that guy. It's not playing safety, its just matching up man to man, which I think Douglas does well.  That's the point I have been trying to make, Douglas engages really well right at the line, I think Mills with his college experience would be better suited playing CF in that situation with Douglas on the guy from the beginning, much better than the other way around.  

 

LOL, I would need to know what we are betting on! BTW Jenkins best game is playing back. There was one game last year where he fooled the QB by taking a step to one side and then sprinted to the other, getting an INT on the play I think. That is most definitely his best part of his game. He gets into QB heads and tricks them into making bad decisions. To me, he is wasted covering a TE or a RB.

    Joe, I do not worry about $$. As you said yourself many times, the dollars always work themselves out. Howie will figure it out. Look, You like Mills trying out a S and I would like to see Douglas get a chance there. What is the big deal? We see it differently.

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19 minutes ago, 1wrangler said:

 Who says that Darby will be starting on the outside this year? LOL He got faked out of his jock strap again yesterday by Markus Wheaton for a deep TD. That 4.3 speed he has doesn't do him any good if he is going 4.3 seconds in the wrong direction. Maybe the slot is where he belongs. All I know is that for the last two years our defensive line has been helping out our secondary a lot with pressure up front. If you want to know just how good our secondary really is look at the game against the Giants last year in the Meadowlands and also look at the Green Bay game at home from the 2016 season and the Super Bowl this year. There is plenty of room for improvement.

Hey Wrang!!  Whats up Brother? Hope you are felling OK. In all fairness to our secondary, we had lost Darby for a good part of the season, Douglas was a rookie and most were still getting used to each other. Now we have Jones, who I feel can clamp down anyone's #1, Darby with a year's more experience and maybe Bausby in the Slot. Bausby has like 4.22 speed so I doubt anyone would beat him deep. From what I hear, the WR's were telling him he played them better in practice than the other teams CB! That is some high praise and we are all reading that he is turning heads in camp. So this year's backfield promises to be much better..... At least on paper it does lol

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1 minute ago, stine said:

LOL, I would need to know what we are betting on! BTW Jenkins best game is playing back. There was one game last year where he fooled the QB by taking a step to one side and then sprinted to the other, getting an INT on the play I think. That is most definitely his best part of his game. He gets into QB heads and tricks them into making bad decisions. To me, he is wasted covering a TE or a RB.

    Joe, I do not worry about $$. As you said yourself many times, the dollars always work themselves out. Howie will figure it out. Look, You like Mills trying out a S and I would like to see Douglas get a chance there. What is the big deal? We see it differently.

Stine.... I like Douglas at outside CB.... I was nervous when Darby came back and played instead of douglas.   I'm saying I like Douglas a lot at CB .... to me its like putting Bernie Parent on offense... you dont take him out of net.  He never played safety, Mills did as a junior.  I believe they don't see Mills as long term CB, that's why they drafted 2, and also added Darby.  

As for Jenkins..... his best trait by far is shutting down one guy in coverage.   Look at how the Pats receiving RBs got like 30 plus catches the last 2 SBs... then look at White do basically nothing this past year.  Forget INTs and the flash plays ... when you completely take an option away, thats the biggest impact you can have... Jenkins playing physical up at the line, in the slot etc.... way better than just having him sit back and roam.  The older he gets, the less value he will have in the back, and more so playing up.  I mean, the reason everyone loves Corey Graham is simply because it takes Jenkins away from just playing back and lets him engage.  

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12 minutes ago, 1wrangler said:

Every time I watch Darby going up against Gronk in the Super Bowl I  get a queasy feeling in my stomach like the Eagles are going to lose the game even though I already know the outcome. During the Super Bowl I was screaming at the television set in the second half to get Douglas in the game. My wife thought I was crazy or something. Well, crazier than what she is accustomed to!

Douglas would have been a much better match up my friend.

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1 minute ago, stine said:

Douglas would have been a much better match up my friend.

Really any other DB other than our shortest and most finesse style player.   That was a big WTF moment for me to see Darby on Gronk.... multiple times!    

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3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Stine.... I like Douglas at outside CB.... I was nervous when Darby came back and played instead of douglas.   I'm saying I like Douglas a lot at CB .... to me its like putting Bernie Parent on offense... you dont take him out of net.  He never played safety, Mills did as a junior.  I believe they don't see Mills as long term CB, that's why they drafted 2, and also added Darby.  

As for Jenkins..... his best trait by far is shutting down one guy in coverage.   Look at how the Pats receiving RBs got like 30 plus catches the last 2 SBs... then look at White do basically nothing this past year.  Forget INTs and the flash plays ... when you completely take an option away, thats the biggest impact you can have... Jenkins playing physical up at the line, in the slot etc.... way better than just having him sit back and roam.  The older he gets, the less value he will have in the back, and more so playing up.  I mean, the reason everyone loves Corey Graham is simply because it takes Jenkins away from just playing back and lets him engage.  

  Well, I disagree here too my friend. I absolutely feel Jenkins is wasted covering a TE. I feel he is better when freed up to do whatever he reads and reacts to....  You cannot look at last SB for comparison. Brady basically did whatever he wanted lol..... Really, that is your example?

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@Stine, I'm okay, just been busy. Our church had a home that they inherited a while back and were using as extra storage. We decided to renovate it and use it for folks that are down on their luck. Say like a couple months at a time until they get back on their feet. Well my job was painting the exterior of the property so I power washed the place and painted it over the course of two weeks. LOL As soon as I was finished my oldest daughter had to have spinal fusion surgery so that occupied some more of my time. Hoping that things chill out for a while now.

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3 minutes ago, stine said:

  Well, I disagree here too my friend. I absolutely feel Jenkins is wasted covering a TE. I feel he is better when freed up to do whatever he reads and reacts to....  You cannot look at last SB for comparison. Brady basically did whatever he wanted lol..... Really, that is your example?

Stine... Jenkins was a stud last year making plays all over the field.  They have McCloud as the FS... then Graham came in as the dime a lot of the time so Jenkins could go engage.  Did we watch the same games last year?    Jenkins is a stud SS in this league!   STUD!   

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Absolute love the way this guy plays on the outside ... no YAC, in fact the WRs usually go backwards as soon as they catch the ball.   Uses the sideline really well.  Love him outside playing the lob ball using his height.  Takes away the fade completely.   Beautiful trail technique in coverage, we haven't seen that here in ages, with those plays vs the Chargers and Chiefs.   You let Jones and this kid develop into your outside starters, and still have Mills around.   I like it!   I would never disengage this kid from playing right up in someone's face or take him away from the sideline on a regular basis.   His natural CB skills are too good.   

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8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Stine... Jenkins was a stud last year making plays all over the field.  They have McCloud as the FS... then Graham came in as the dime a lot of the time so Jenkins could go engage.  Did we watch the same games last year?    Jenkins is a stud SS in this league!   STUD!   

Exactly! He is probably the smartest player on the defensive side of the ball and you want him covering a TE? That is my point! When he is not covering a TE and free to read and react he is a STUD!! You just made my point Joe!

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He is stuffing the run or blitzing or whatever else he sees... That is his strength...

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16 minutes ago, 1wrangler said:

@Stine, I'm okay, just been busy. Our church had a home that they inherited a while back and were using as extra storage. We decided to renovate it and use it for folks that are down on their luck. Say like a couple months at a time until they get back on their feet. Well my job was painting the exterior of the property so I power washed the place and painted it over the course of two weeks. LOL As soon as I was finished my oldest daughter had to have spinal fusion surgery so that occupied some more of my time. Hoping that things chill out for a while now.

Didn't Woods have that Spinal Fusion done?  Look at him!  She has this Bro!! Keep the faith!!

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