DaveSpadaro

[News] Early Thinking On Some Roster Battles To Watch

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21 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

So what I am assuming is Joe is saying "overall talent" aka solid everywhere.No super elite guys,but above average talent everywhere.Could be wrong

Yeah... you are half right ... solid everywhere .... elite .... Wentz QB... Kelce, Brooks, Lane, individually... the OL as a whole elite due to that with solid on the other side ... DL.. Cox elite... and a lot of above average to go next to it.    I think Alshon was a # 1 WR .. not elite, but a guy you needed to put your #1 CB on... opened it up for the other solid weapons.   The Running game was very good... elite OL with solid RBs... and depth

So... solid all around .... with elite at the right spots ...and depth too.    Best roster in 2017 for me with all those things.  Dont see a team with all three of those.   

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5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

We’ve had Agholor before and after winning the SB. But something was very different about him that year compared to every other.

They are about to get elite QBing.

Nah,they will find a way to screw that up

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24 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Interesting that you brought up Magic and Bird. Great players. But also great leaders. Guys that brought out the best in their teammates.

Yes ... so in any given year did you think one led better than the other... and that was the difference.    That was my point.   Its not always about the leader.... I think a leader can make a bad team relevant... which is what Ryan Clarke said about the Eagles and Wentz... which I agree, without him they are a bad team...offensively.  Obviously we know the defense is what it is, and he has zero to do with it.    

But Magic and Bird perfect example... Bird won 3 titles ... his leadership was not any worse in those years he didn't win... same with Magic.  The team around them were the factors.   But notice... at not time were their teams ever bad... that I will give to them and their leadership... same as I think Wentz was the catalyst in 2017 and also keeping them above water now.  Coach, and teammates need to pick it up.  

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27 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

It was very good. Ran a 3-4 so the pass rush came from LB mostly.

I count the OLBs as Linemen ... because they essentially are right in the front line working against OTs on pass rush and run stop.  

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Robinson, Agholor, Wisniewski, V, Clement, Kendricks, Bradham, Curry...,all these players having career seasons. There was more in the 2017 pie than being the most talented team. Not just these guys overachieving but the symbiosis of the team all together. Each piece fitting to help out the whole.

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At any rate,I dont like these "anonymous"players complaining.You got somethin to say SAY IT.or request a trade(that says it all).Now ahead of maybe the most important game,we have guys looking at each other going "Is it him,is it that guy?" Like we need a freakin distraction right now-pathetic

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6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Yes ... so in any given year did you think one led better than the other... and that was the difference.    That was my point.   Its not always about the leader.... I think a leader can make a bad team relevant... which is what Ryan Clarke said about the Eagles and Wentz... which I agree, without him they are a bad team...offensively.  Obviously we know the defense is what it is, and he has zero to do with it.    

But Magic and Bird perfect example... Bird won 3 titles ... his leadership was not any worse in those years he didn't win... same with Magic.  The team around them were the factors.   But notice... at not time were their teams ever bad... that I will give to them and their leadership... same as I think Wentz was the catalyst in 2017 and also keeping them above water now.  Coach, and teammates need to pick it up.  

Not arguing Bird Or Magic had up and down Leadership years. Arguing that they had great leadership which lead to continual success...that lead to championships...that brought the best out of their teammates. Probably also argue that both had other quality leaders on their teams. All creating the championship puzzle.

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8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I count the OLBs as Linemen ... because they essentially are right in the front line working against OTs on pass rush and run stop.  

That changes plenty. Then you are arguing that five out of eleven of the defensive players are important. Sure half the defense is important.

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19 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

My building blocks to greatness start with QB and Oline. Those are the easiest to succeed with.

OK... Denver OL ... Seattle OL ... Pittsburgh OL from 2005-2009.   Indy OL was solid... that DL with those all pro pass rushers wwere nice.   Those Pats teams in the early 2000s... OL was solid.... DL .. Seymore, Wilfork, McGinnst..etc... they were studs on that D front.  

I'll go solid with that OL... avoiding a weakness... I want the elite level on the DL first though.   Like if you gave me a choice... if I needed all solid to above average for one line ...and say a couple elite, but a couple so so on the other... I'd want Aaron Donald and say Brandon Whiting ...vs say Jason Peters and Max Jean Gilles type of mix.    

OL just like secondary ... one weak player can change the game for you .... DL and WR .. one player can change the game.  One prevents big plays, the other makes them.   I need an elite play maker in that group to make everyone else better around them.  I can't say that the best LT of all time changes much if the other 4 guys are below average/ average.  Same as one CB isn't going to cover balls thrown to the other 4 guys.  They help, but not the same effect as an elite DL or WR can cause. 

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1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That changes plenty. Then you are arguing that five out of eleven of the defensive players are important. Sure half the defense is important.

IDK Id like to see the DL actually rush the QB and let the LB's stuff the run.Apparently we dont trust them to do it

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22 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Some of that is due to injury. Jackson and Jernigan both injured hurt the Dline. Alshon and DJax injuries hurt the receivers.

100% agree... that's where we can't blame anyone.  Those guys healthy... I like our chances vs anyone in comparing those particular units.  

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23 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Some of that is due to injury. Jackson and Jernigan both injured hurt the Dline. Alshon and DJax injuries hurt the receivers. 

 

Because Wisniewski is a stud LG. Always been that way. Just dominating everyone he’s come across. If we dropped him say ....two seasons later every team in the league would be in a bidding war for his services. Or Big V. Obviously HOF LT.

As I said... 3 studs on one side with solid on the other.... correct.  

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19 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Jay Ajayi and Wisniewski aren’t even on teams now. Not sure that backs up your argument for most talented team.

Now and then my man... then was then.   That's the point.    You are smart enough to how 2 years can make a difference.  

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3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

OK... Denver OL ... Seattle OL ... Pittsburgh OL from 2005-2009.   Indy OL was solid... that DL with those all pro pass rushers wwere nice.   Those Pats teams in the early 2000s... OL was solid.... DL .. Seymore, Wilfork, McGinnst..etc... they were studs on that D front.  

I'll go solid with that OL... avoiding a weakness... I want the elite level on the DL first though.   Like if you gave me a choice... if I needed all solid to above average for one line ...and say a couple elite, but a couple so so on the other... I'd want Aaron Donald and say Brandon Whiting ...vs say Jason Peters and Max Jean Gilles type of mix.    

OL just like secondary ... one weak player can change the game for you .... DL and WR .. one player can change the game.  One prevents big plays, the other makes them.   I need an elite play maker in that group to make everyone else better around them.  I can't say that the best LT of all time changes much if the other 4 guys are below average/ average.  Same as one CB isn't going to cover balls thrown to the other 4 guys.  They help, but not the same effect as an elite DL or WR can cause. 

I think you can go around and around with this. An elite shutdown corner allows the secondary to focus on the other targets. Essentially shifting coverage to double teams on the lower level receiving weapons. That’s a huge benefit for the defense/DC/Gameplan. But you can double a Dlineman. You can double or triple cover a receiver.

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2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Now and then my man... then was then.   That's the point.    You are smart enough to how 2 years can make a difference.  

So name the other years of the great Wisniewski’s performances

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Pats are around every year because besides brady they are solid everywhere and they turn no names into household names

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So coaching challenge.We snuck away with a win at lambeau(barely),so what is your offensive and defensive plan because we cant do the same things Sunday

BTW where is DWD???

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30 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Blount and Ajayi were castoffs. Sproles too old. And Clement undrafted.

Clement is fine,I was disappointed in Adams and Gibson

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But you don’t get to just choose elite playmakers at what positions No Mas. Pass Rusher and QB take top picks. Like the first off the board. Bosa...Manning.... being rigid will leave you disappointed. You have to be flexible. Many ways to win a football game. Got to be adaptable to take advantage of what great playmakers you have. Design your scheme on your personnel. Pass rushers are coveted every year in the draft, free agency and trade. High price tag position. So your preaching what is the status quo. Lemming. 

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14 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Robinson, Agholor, Wisniewski, V, Clement, Kendricks, Bradham, Curry...,all these players having career seasons. There was more in the 2017 pie than being the most talented team. Not just these guys overachieving but the symbiosis of the team all together. Each piece fitting to help out the whole.

Please NOTE... Did I ever ...EVER say anything to the contrary?     Please find it?    I said we had the most talented roster between being solid all around, elite in the right spots and depth.    did not say it was the only reason.

Again that is your main issue... not following.  One thought has nothing to do with the other.   I will take that 2017 roster over any other team in 2017.   Doug was great, the assistants were great.. Foles had great timing for his great play ... the injuries were not all in one spot.   Yet still ... any other team with their starting LT, MLB, QB, Returner/3rd down RB, best ST player ... all out... I don't see them coming up with that success.  

Was it the only reason ... no.   Do you finally follow.   To disagree.. just simply give me a better roster in 2017 ... with elite QB, DL, OL play ..solid all around ... and 2nd string guys too.  

The other thing you need to factor... guys having career years?   Why do you think that it... look at the ages of the guys having "career years"  That's also a big factor.

Whe you look at talent... the 2009 and 2019 roster both had Jason Peters ... we both know its not equal right?   That's a big part of 2017.  Guys in prime.  Its why now you say some of them aren't on rosters... right, because they aren't physically as good as they were in 2017.  Ajayi and Blount perfect examples... age and injury!    

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16 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Not arguing Bird Or Magic had up and down Leadership years. Arguing that they had great leadership which lead to continual success...that lead to championships...that brought the best out of their teammates. Probably also argue that both had other quality leaders on their teams. All creating the championship puzzle.

And better talent from year to year.   Which is a part of the equation.   

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16 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That changes plenty. Then you are arguing that five out of eleven of the defensive players are important. Sure half the defense is important.

No... my point is I prefer those guys that battle in the defensive trench to be elite... that unit to be elite.   Its the first wave of defense vs the run and the one that pressures the QB.   Very simple.   

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