DaveSpadaro

[News] Early Thinking On Some Roster Battles To Watch

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, stine said:

  When has Alshon been healthy? Easily a top 20 when healthy? Then why get rid of him? I disagree that he is a top 20 WR, maybe not even a top 30 when healthy now. He is much slower. Buffalo has 90 mil to spend. You say I am looking thru Eagles Fan Tunnel Vision? I say it is you who is placing much more value on Jeffrey because you are a fan. Why shouldn't Buffalo spend 98 mil on Cooper? They can easily afford it and he is healthy. Where did you read Cooper was not healthy the last 3 games? I didn't see that anywhere....

 

   LOL- Who did Cooper draw attention for? I don't know what you are talking about. You don't think Thomas drew attention? Devante Adams? Hopkins? They are all drawing a bunch of attention and they still made a huge impact on the game. Cooper disappeared. Period. I want no part of him....

IDK... how was he in 2017?  How was he his last game vs Miami.   He was the best Eagle on the field.   Why do we get rid of him...simple... he will be 31 in 2021 and have the bigger cap hit.  If you can swap that cap hit out for a guy thats better and 4 years younger... while getting trade value ...it s no brainer.    

And sorry... when I said the bills have " like $88 mil ... it wasn't close enough to 90????      anyway... I would think Cooper goes to Buffalo if he hits the open market.. barring the Eagles pulling a contract where Howie does his normal creative stuff to get the player extra money early.    Again... Devante Adams... Rodgers - Thomas ... Brees - Hopkins ... Watkins   and Cooper had Dak.   Which coach do you think is the worst out of the 4?    Again... a lot of factors go into a situation... I'll take the 26 year old pro bowler for the same contract that my 31 year old has... and still add in the draft if possible.   and I would go after Jones too.   We have cap space, use it now on these guys in their prime.  With the cap going up and out older players coming off the books... Wentz will redo his deal in 2020 ... we will have plenty of space... having the players will be the question.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Wentz will redo his deal in 2020

I meant 2022

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Sure,DEPTH can be considered a need as well no? Lack of that was pretty evident last year.So if I get 7 guys in here through round 4, 2-3 may start(or soon) and I have 4-5 depth players that have the talent to fill in or become starters in time.So to me those 7 "stick".IDK why you are arguing semantics

IDK... you tell me when the results of the draft have produced what you just said????   If in 2021 ... 3 of the 7 picks are still on the team and actually playing some, that will be about the norm.... saying we get 2 or 3 starters????? with the rest as backups??   That's a lot to ask... it could happen, but show me a draft where it did for us recently?   Ohhh.... but this year is different because its a double draft?   So each pick has double the chance of making the team???   

And I'll throw in Nate Gerry as a starter level guy that we drafted late recently..... is he a guy that you consider ... hey we don't need a 2nd round draft pick because we have Nate Gerry as a starter????     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

IDK... how was he in 2017?  How was he his last game vs Miami.   He was the best Eagle on the field.   Why do we get rid of him...simple... he will be 31 in 2021 and have the bigger cap hit.  If you can swap that cap hit out for a guy thats better and 4 years younger... while getting trade value ...it s no brainer.    

And sorry... when I said the bills have " like $88 mil ... it wasn't close enough to 90????      anyway... I would think Cooper goes to Buffalo if he hits the open market.. barring the Eagles pulling a contract where Howie does his normal creative stuff to get the player extra money early.    Again... Devante Adams... Rodgers - Thomas ... Brees - Hopkins ... Watkins   and Cooper had Dak.   Which coach do you think is the worst out of the 4?    Again... a lot of factors go into a situation... I'll take the 26 year old pro bowler for the same contract that my 31 year old has... and still add in the draft if possible.   and I would go after Jones too.   We have cap space, use it now on these guys in their prime.  With the cap going up and out older players coming off the books... Wentz will redo his deal in 2020 ... we will have plenty of space... having the players will be the question.  

  I agree 88 or 90, who cares? OK, YES Cooper did have Dak. I agree with that. How much that come into play I have no clue. I am sure it does to a degree. I still do not want Cooper. Hey, you do. Everyone else I have talked to does not like it. Maybe we are tired of signing FA's to huge contracts only to have them fall flat on their face. I wouldn't sign anyone for more than 13 mil a year and that dude had better stand tall.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, stine said:

Just wondering, Would you offer a 5 year deal to Byron Jones for 65 mil? that is 13 per year. May be a bit high as compared to others, but he is a solid player and steady as it comes. Also would eliminate one need in the draft. I also like Either Martinez (GB) or Kwiatkoski (Chi) as possible FA's at LB. Thinking we may be able to get the latter for less cash. Maybe $5 mil per year? So you would take care of two positions and give yourself a little freedom in the draft.

YES in a heartbeat..... Howie can't save the money to put into his 401k.... so you use it on good players.    and its' not going to be $13 mil per year.... that has been my point with these long term contracts that seems to be going over people's heads.   You don;t just take a contract and divide it by the years it's not that simple.     How else do you explain Cox Signing a 6 year $102 mil deal.... and the first 4 years only counted for $39 mil of cap hits?   Years 5 and 6 are going to count for about $45 mil more.... 6 years ... 84 mil of cap hits on a 6 year $102 mil deal.

That's why yes to the free agents that we know are good players and are in their prime.  The real numbers will be much less of an impact on the cap than most think. 

Plus with the new CBA coming, any FA deal done now will be a bargain soon enough.   This is the year to strike in FA.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

IDK... you tell me when the results of the draft have produced what you just said????   If in 2021 ... 3 of the 7 picks are still on the team and actually playing some, that will be about the norm.... saying we get 2 or 3 starters????? with the rest as backups??   That's a lot to ask... it could happen, but show me a draft where it did for us recently?   Ohhh.... but this year is different because its a double draft?   So each pick has double the chance of making the team???   

And I'll throw in Nate Gerry as a starter level guy that we drafted late recently..... is he a guy that you consider ... hey we don't need a 2nd round draft pick because we have Nate Gerry as a starter????     

More picks by round 4 should = a higher rate of competition? Rather than 1 round 4 a few 6's and 7's and some UDFA's as we've had in the past?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Joe, I know we are going at it, but I just do not want another high profile bust. We have had too many already.

Kearse, Asomugha, Maxwell, Murray, Stacey Andrews (6 years- 38.3 Mil) and Blain Bishop... All busts some were pretty high paid busts! You feel Cooper will be a top  WR. I say he isn't one now and won't be one after we sign him. Anyway, Let's move on...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

YES in a heartbeat..... Howie can't save the money to put into his 401k.... so you use it on good players.    and its' not going to be $13 mil per year.... that has been my point with these long term contracts that seems to be going over people's heads.   You don;t just take a contract and divide it by the years it's not that simple.     How else do you explain Cox Signing a 6 year $102 mil deal.... and the first 4 years only counted for $39 mil of cap hits?   Years 5 and 6 are going to count for about $45 mil more.... 6 years ... 84 mil of cap hits on a 6 year $102 mil deal.

That's why yes to the free agents that we know are good players and are in their prime.  The real numbers will be much less of an impact on the cap than most think. 

Plus with the new CBA coming, any FA deal done now will be a bargain soon enough.   This is the year to strike in FA.  

   I understand that he won't make 13 mil a year Joe. I was just throwing out the average.... We are good on Howies contract magic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

More picks by round 4 should = a higher rate of competition? Rather than 1 round 4 a few 6's and 7's and some UDFA's as we've had in the past?

Right ... so say we use a 33% hit rate for round 4...which is probably generous.   Does competition between guys that are 33% hit rates really raise the bar?   Iron sharpens iron according to Doug.... if none are really iron to start, where does it raise the level of competition.   I'm just looking at it like ... 33% chance... 3 picks means one should stick... 6 picks means we should get 2.  That type of thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, stine said:

Joe, I know we are going at it, but I just do not want another high profile bust. We have had too many already.

Kearse, Asomugha, Maxwell, Murray, Stacey Andrews (^ years- 38.3 Mil) and Blain Bishop... All busts some were pretty high paid busts! You feel Cooper will be a top  WR. I say he isn't one now and won't be one after we sign him. Anyway, Let's move on...

Stine... we aren't going at it.... lol ... we are talking football.    But you tell me... how many 25 year olds... that made 2 pro bowls with each of his 2 former teams..... would move on to play with a better QB, better coach ,... and turned out to be a bust?     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Right ... so say we use a 33% hit rate for round 4...which is probably generous.   Does competition between guys that are 33% hit rates really raise the bar?   Iron sharpens iron according to Doug.... if none are really iron to start, where does it raise the level of competition.   I'm just looking at it like ... 33% chance... 3 picks means one should stick... 6 picks means we should get 2.  That type of thing.

  I hope we do better than that this year. Hopefully we draft 3 starters and 1-2 reliable back-ups....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, stine said:

   I understand that he won't make 13 mil a year Joe. I was just throwing out the average.... We are good on Howies contract magic

Right... but its a big part of why you think Cooper will be a bust...you are afraid to pay him... and I'm saying he will count about what Agholor did last year, probably less... and less than Alshon will count next year..... throw in 4 pro bowls with QBs and coaches I don't really like... move him here in a better situation... IDK what else you need.    

And I don't think Cooper will be a top WR ... he already has been 4 out of the last 5 years.   Draft picks we " think"  can be ... vets who have already proven to be are different.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right ... so say we use a 33% hit rate for round 4...which is probably generous.   Does competition between guys that are 33% hit rates really raise the bar?   Iron sharpens iron according to Doug.... if none are really iron to start, where does it raise the level of competition.   I'm just looking at it like ... 33% chance... 3 picks means one should stick... 6 picks means we should get 2.  That type of thing.

Well to me,this is "the perfect storm" We have cap space AND many draft picks.I hope we use them all.Higher competition(rounds 4 and up) should produce better players at given positions.We can argue if they are deemed starters or BU's but the high picks should give us better players to choose from.If we take 2-3 FA's,then draft 3-4 guys with potential,then I consider that a good off season.Some draftees will bust out,it happens(MS2) some late picks will blossom.Suffice to say MOST of the higher ranked draftees will produce tougher competition and from that should make the team better NOW and for years later if we did it right.If your 33% rate holds true,then 1 round 4 player should contribute and if 1,2,3,3 we hit 3/4,that should give us 4 potential starters,or at least guys who can grow into starting roles.Much better odds than rounds 6,7 UDFA IMO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, stine said:

  I hope we do better than that this year. Hopefully we draft 3 starters and 1-2 reliable back-ups....

Man, if you can do that every year it would be awesome.  But yeah, i think we need this type of draft this year... big offseason.    Keep in mind, I don't see 3 starters in year 1.   Depending upon the positions of course, but I assume we get FAs to start.... draft picks to develop.   That first round guy obviously having the best chance to start... but even if WR or CB.. will be tougher than people think.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

We can argue if they are deemed starters or BU's but the high picks

GBFL... but I don't care how they are " deemed"    you have a bad starter... he is still a starter.... but then next year you view it as a need.   

My basis point.... was just to counter what you said.... in that it seems the 2021 2nd round pick has less value to you because of this idea that this year the later round picks will fill needs.   I just don't want to rely on that logic.   It doesn't mean the picks are worthless or none of them can make an impact or fill a need...etc.  It's just not good business getting cocky and lowering the value of a better pick.

But a big part of it is that you get wrapped up in the mocks 6 months prior.... so the here and now always holds more value to you.   I notice that every year.  Remember that 8th RB we signed from some small school 3 years ago.... and you were like " well I guess Sproles is on his way out now"    you just get carried away with all these kids before they actually do anything on tghe NFL level.  To me they are all mostly unknown.   the NFL is a different animal than even good level college.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Man, if you can do that every year it would be awesome.  But yeah, i think we need this type of draft this year... big offseason.    Keep in mind, I don't see 3 starters in year 1.   Depending upon the positions of course, but I assume we get FAs to start.... draft picks to develop.   That first round guy obviously having the best chance to start... but even if WR or CB.. will be tougher than people think.  

Yeah,that was my thinking when I said we could give up a round 2 next year.Is it a risk? Of course.Every pick is a risk of some kind.But this is a terrific WR class,should get the best guy we can for 4-5 years down the road.Many round 1 guys are tossed into the fire.Some are ready some are not.We need to ensure our #1 pick is ready to go(or soon after learning the playbook etc).I would not want to sit him all year. Although success in college is not an automatic shoe-in to the NFL,it could be because we lack the development/transitional skills.I would like to see that changed and possibly why we "cleaned house" in this offseason. So,take what you want from it.It's my opinion.Yours may differ,but that doesn't change mine and I won't change yours either.Just how I view things.We always say we need "younger",so let's do it and get these draftees to competition level

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Well to me,this is "the perfect storm" We have cap space AND many draft picks.I hope we use them all.Higher competition(rounds 4 and up) should produce better players at given positions.We can argue if they are deemed starters or BU's but the high picks should give us better players to choose from.If we take 2-3 FA's,then draft 3-4 guys with potential,then I consider that a good off season.Some draftees will bust out,it happens(MS2) some late picks will blossom.Suffice to say MOST of the higher ranked draftees will produce tougher competition and from that should make the team better NOW and for years later if we did it right.If your 33% rate holds true,then 1 round 4 player should contribute and if 1,2,3,3 we hit 3/4,that should give us 4 potential starters,or at least guys who can grow into starting roles.Much better odds than rounds 6,7 UDFA IMO

If we traded pick 85 to the Cardinals for their 2021 2nd round pick... would you like the deal?   I would love it.... but I think you wouldn;t because it makes this year's mock not as good.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Stine... we aren't going at it.... lol ... we are talking football.    But you tell me... how many 25 year olds... that made 2 pro bowls with each of his 2 former teams..... would move on to play with a better QB, better coach ,... and turned out to be a bust?     

One could argue Terrell Owens ended up a bust for us. He had the one great year and that was it... How about Andre Rison... Signed with Cleveland after making 4 Pro Bowls... Ended up a bust for Cleveland...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

GBFL... but I don't care how they are " deemed"    you have a bad starter... he is still a starter.... but then next year you view it as a need.   

My basis point.... was just to counter what you said.... in that it seems the 2021 2nd round pick has less value to you because of this idea that this year the later round picks will fill needs.   I just don't want to rely on that logic.   It doesn't mean the picks are worthless or none of them can make an impact or fill a need...etc.  It's just not good business getting cocky and lowering the value of a better pick.

But a big part of it is that you get wrapped up in the mocks 6 months prior.... so the here and now always holds more value to you.   I notice that every year.  Remember that 8th RB we signed from some small school 3 years ago.... and you were like " well I guess Sproles is on his way out now"    you just get carried away with all these kids before they actually do anything on tghe NFL level.  To me they are all mostly unknown.   the NFL is a different animal than even good level college.  

Depends on how the FO views things.We made a HUGE move for Wentz,because we believed in him and out staffers.Can say the same about WR or any other spot.if they think a guy can be a difference maker for years,yeah I do what I have to to get him on my team 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

If we traded pick 85 to the Cardinals for their 2021 2nd round pick... would you like the deal?   I would love it.... but I think you wouldn;t because it makes this year's mock not as good.  

Sure I would do that,who wouldn't? I was talking having to acquire our first rounder not our 3rd or 2nd.if you feel your round 1 pick would contribute to your success for years,then yeah I give up my 2 next year,why wouldn't I?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Yeah,that was my thinking when I said we could give up a round 2 next year.Is it a risk? Of course.Every pick is a risk of some kind.But this is a terrific WR class,should get the best guy we can for 4-5 years down the road.Many round 1 guys are tossed into the fire.Some are ready some are not.We need to ensure our #1 pick is ready to go(or soon after learning the playbook etc).I would not want to sit him all year. Although success in college is not an automatic shoe-in to the NFL,it could be because we lack the development/transitional skills.I would like to see that changed and possibly why we "cleaned house" in this offseason. So,take what you want from it.It's my opinion.Yours may differ,but that doesn't change mine and I won't change yours either.Just how I view things.We always say we need "younger",so let's do it and get these draftees to competition level

Right... but its different when you say its smart to move up because we like a guy this year ....   than saying, we can give up next year;s 2nd because you think our later round picks will fill needs.   One idea is going after a specific stud... the other idea is giving up the concept of a better value pick because we have lower value picks that will hit.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right... but its different when you say its smart to move up because we like a guy this year ....   than saying, we can give up next year;s 2nd because you think our later round picks will fill needs.   One idea is going after a specific stud... the other idea is giving up the concept of a better value pick because we have lower value picks that will hit.  

I said there is a better CHANCE they would fill our needs due to the increased competition of round 4 players vs round 6,7 UDFA's.IDK what is difficult to understand about this lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, stine said:

One could argue Terrell Owens ended up a bust for us. He had the one great year and that was it... How about Andre Rison... Signed with Cleveland after making 4 Pro Bowls... Ended up a bust for Cleveland...

What were the ages ... what were the QB situations.... and TO had plenty left in the tank... he played one full season here... its why he only had one great year... he did pretty well for Dallas for a while right?    LOL  But yeah .... good examples over a long period of time.    My argument is simple... Cooper is better than Alshon.   You swap them while getting more cap space and some value you can use.   Wentz would be his best QB ... Doug would be his best coach.   I understand your fear ... the Cowboys imploded at the end of the year ... you put blame on an injured Cooper who didn't have his QB under contract and his contract was up.   But he was awesome for then for 2 years including playoffs.   Injuries, leg injuries absolutely hurt WRs... bothj Cooper and Alshon had them.   You can bet teams would love to have either one.   Alshon's cap hit will be lower for another team... like less than half ... the value goes up because of that.  Cooper at his age... already proven for 5 years under 2 different systems, coaches, QBs.... unlike Rison in your example that went from one team to another ... before he did well in GB again.  

I just think your fear is way over the top.   Alshon already a #1 WR, Cooper is better.  Results are due to a lot of factors though.  Give me Cooper for 8 to 10 mil cap hit this year, 15 to 18 the next 2 years... then we can get out of it if necessary ... I do it in a heartbeat.   Again, we have plenty of space and it doesn't prevent me from doing any other moves.   That kis the big thing... it's not Cooper instead of a rookie or getting another position in Fa... it's Cooper instead of Alshon and still doing everything else we want.   No brainer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

I said there is a better CHANCE they would fill our needs due to the increased competition of round 4 players vs round 6,7 UDFA's.IDK what is difficult to understand about this lol

GBFL... come on now... I quoted you word for word... you were saying they were going to have 7 needs filled... you already knew you weren;t going to need that 2021 2nd rounder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now