DaveSpadaro

[News] Early Thinking On Some Roster Battles To Watch

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12 minutes ago, senhorcook said:

Why do many of you think the Eagles will get anything for Foles beyond the Comp pick?  Use your brain and not your heart.

I'd take Blount back in a heartbeat!

I like the idea of Mailata, but how can any of us be sure that he is even going to make it as a STARTING LT in the NFL?  HIGH expectations for a guy that was introduced to the game last year.

Sudfield?  Gotta say I don't really care.  The coaches know what he is so they will decide what he is worth and what he is not worth.  If, yes a big if, Wentz stays healthy, it doesn't matter anyway.

And DWD makes a point.  The EYE test showed that Foles (last four games) played better than Wentz throughout the season.  Stats or no stats, the eye test of offensive functionality, Foles played better.  Foles trusts his guys to make plays.  Wentz isn't necessarily there yet.  That trust also has Foles throwing some boneheaded interceptions, which Wentz usually avoids. However, it also provides a needed spark sometimes.   Although it is a VERY fine line.  For example, Wentz forced the deep ball into triple coverage at least twice this past season.  It seemed uncharacteristic of him and he FORCED it.  That is NOT what is meant by trusting your guy to make a play.  I thought Brees throwing the deep ball this past Sunday to Ginn near the end of the game was a risk.....but somewhat calculated as the defender appeared to be playing man and had his back turned.  That is a calculated trust your guy to make a play.

That leads me to another thing I see here a lot.  No offense, but when you get mad that the DBs are not turning around to find the ball, you should first try to play against this caliber of WR.  If you are playing man coverage, how  in the world are you going to know every time when the ball is coming? The split second you think you know and turn your head, the guy you are covering just turned up field and catches a 70 yard TD.  Playing the ball, specifically getting their head around, when they are in man coverage at the perfect time is next to impossible.....to be successful.  Eric Berry covering Gronk. He is one of the best safeties in the league.  Didn't happen did it.  Why? It's just not that easy.  Easy for us to say; not easy for them to do.  Not everyone can be Patrick Peterson, et al.

"If you are playing man coverage, how  in the world are you going to know every time when the ball is coming?" I was taught this in HIGH SCHOOL.It's called peripheral vision(and how to make it better) you watch the receivers eyes(if possible),when he focuses you TURN AROUND(because at some point HE will turn for the ball).It's human nature and you can't fake it.If you are trailing them from behind,chances are he is covered anyway BUT,using that peripheral vision you can turn your head just slightly and see the ball.From there you practice "reaction times".Pity my HS coach didn't go to the NFL.he taught us SOOO much.I was a TE at the time and learned how to use this knowledge vs my opponent.Now this WONT stop 100% of completions(as in a perfectly thown ball in the basket),but it gives you a better shot at picks and break-ups (aka increases your odds)  

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GBFL, no disrespect to you as I'm sure you were a stud DB, but this is the NFL.  ie the best athletes in the sport; the fastest athletes in the sport.  If it were that easy, the technic you speak of would be done by all.

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4 minutes ago, senhorcook said:

GBFL, no disrespect to you as I'm sure you were a stud DB, but this is the NFL.  ie the best athletes in the sport; the fastest athletes in the sport.  If it were that easy, the technic you speak of would be done by all.

What can't it be honed through college and the pro's like any other "skill?" teaching it would cause no harm in my view

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That one Rasul Douglas TD he gave up comes to mind. Douglas turned to look for the ball(in the end zone mind you) but the throw was on the very back line of the end zone. Douglas was in great coverage but that turn cost the TD. It’s a fine line. I don’t really blame Douglas because I do want my DBs to turn and look for the ball. But that was all that was needed and the throw was perfect.

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Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

That one Rasul Douglas TD he gave up comes to mind. Douglas turned to look for the ball(in the end zone mind you) but the throw was on the very back line of the end zone. Douglas was in great coverage but that turn cost the TD. It’s a fine line. I don’t really blame Douglas because I do want my DBs to turn and look for the ball. But that was all that was needed and the throw was perfect.

Not gonna stop a perfect pass no matter who you are.I'm talking about the NON perfect passes.As I said it's not a 100% cure all to make you shut down,but it IS a learned skillyou can use when you have to 

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9 hours ago, KevvMoss said:

Ryquell Armstead (Temple) should be our pick for rb this draft. I don't care where he's projected we need to draft him, the kid can ball. Runs hard, good vision, and has good getaway speed. I feel he'll be better in the Nfl than he was in College 

Ima put an eyeball on him and see if I see what you do lol

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15 minutes ago, senhorcook said:

GBFL, no disrespect to you as I'm sure you were a stud DB, but this is the NFL.  ie the best athletes in the sport; the fastest athletes in the sport.  If it were that easy, the technic you speak of would be done by all.

Those techniques are taught on both sides as well. The defenders learn to read the receiver. His eyes,if he lifts his arm or changes body position because of the incoming pass. But receivers know this also. They are taught to not raise that hand early.

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4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Those techniques are taught on both sides as well. The defenders learn to read the receiver. His eyes,if he lifts his arm or changes body position because of the incoming pass. But receivers know this also. They are taught to not raise that hand early.

So don't even try? ok got it

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In GB's corner on this one. Have to be as I've always said the same thing. It's not always possible to do, sure increases TO's and w/ the head turned you can foul the heck out of someone w/o a PI, maybe even draw an occasional offensive PI. I was always taught - play the ball! Exclamation mark cause coach was always yelling it.

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So at the PROFESSIONAL level of football, why is it not done more?  It's just not that easy guys.  It's all good.  I believe that playing DB in the NFL, with all of the touchy penalties called and the desire for offensive firepower, is the most difficult position to play.  I do love watching playoff football because they don't call defensive holding unless they are severe and OBVIOUS.  They let them play defense in the playoffs.  Shocking.  Notice none of the scores have been outrageous in the playoffs.  And Bill Bellicheat knows it better than any coach. Why do you think he plays press coverage in the playoffs against ANY team?  And his DBs, other than Gilmore, SUCK!  His whole defense sucks.  But he knows he can play defense MUCH more aggressive in the playoffs.  I can't figure out why other teams don't get it.  And his players get the message too. 

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Looks like Beasley not going back to the Cowpies.

I'd say have a look but he serves the same function as Ags and Tate

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2 hours ago, senhorcook said:

Why do many of you think the Eagles will get anything for Foles beyond the Comp pick?  Use your brain and not your heart.

I'd take Blount back in a heartbeat!

I like the idea of Mailata, but how can any of us be sure that he is even going to make it as a STARTING LT in the NFL?  HIGH expectations for a guy that was introduced to the game last year.

Sudfield?  Gotta say I don't really care.  The coaches know what he is so they will decide what he is worth and what he is not worth.  If, yes a big if, Wentz stays healthy, it doesn't matter anyway.

And DWD makes a point.  The EYE test showed that Foles (last four games) played better than Wentz throughout the season.  Stats or no stats, the eye test of offensive functionality, Foles played better.  

That leads me to another thing I see here a lot.  No offense, but when you get mad that the DBs are not turning around to find the ball, you should first try to play against this caliber of WR.  If you are playing man coverage, how  in the world are you going to know every time when the ball is coming? T  Eric Berry covering Gronk. He is one of the best safeties in the league.  Didn't happen did it.  Why? 

Sen,

1. Agree most likely we get the comp pick (plus the $2 mil back in cap space for Foles) .. Foles wanting to keep the $2 mil by not having to buy his free agency, and if the new team wants to both make him happy and not have him visit another team, slight possibility it happens. Slight.  That's where we cold get something better.

2.  Blount... nope ... 2 years later now, find the next Blount

3.  Mailata... think he is a possiblity for 2020, has the physical gifts you don't need to teach, we'll see if he learns the other stuff

4.  Sudfeld, we'll keep him, another guy, don't be fooled bevause he hasn't played much yet.   Probably ends up getting us another decent pick in 2 years.

5.  Foles with the eye test.  My eyes saw the defense win the Rams game,   I thought Houston was all Foles.  Washington quit, then I thought he stunk in the playoff games, (at least I think if Wentz played those type games it would be the narrative, St. Nick gets the pass for playing a so so game, can't rip him because he is St. Nick) except for I guess the best 1 yard pass of all time to Tate?   I think the timing of when he came in was great for him, and for the Eagles now as I think we will get compensation.   I don't think we would have gotten compensation  if one of the playoff performances happened right away and prevented us from getting in.

6. Eric Berry... he is a safety, not a CB.   Bad example when looking at coverage.  CBs do it 100% of the time, its not a safety's job to be in man coverage on the outside as the main reason he gets paid.   How do you cover and look at the ball?... that's why you extend your arm out to feel the receiver, used is basketball too when the ball is opposite side of the guy you are covering.  Don't need to grab or push, but a "feel" for the guy helps for a split second.  Not every WR is Gronk either.  

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2 hours ago, senhorcook said:

GBFL, no disrespect to you as I'm sure you were a stud DB, but this is the NFL.  ie the best athletes in the sport; the fastest athletes in the sport.  If it were that easy, the technic you speak of would be done by all.

Sen, I know neither of you guys are local,  I'll chime in on what Seth Joyner said last year or even before that here on the local Comcast channel.  He said, guys today don't practice "trail technique"  when you run up in the pattern and follow the receiver putting yourself in between the QB and the WR.    He said when they used to do these drills, he used to go cover Mike Quick to make it more challenging for himself, said it was the best practice.  IMO, you see less man to man today.  I believe the Eagles are in a 3 deep zone for the most part, so the technique isn't practiced.  You see Patriots CBs use this a lot over the years.  They play a lot of man to man.  

And to be fair ... I think GBFL is talking about when you already realize that the WR is running downfield at this point, not from the start of the pattern.  So it takes away the mystery, once you realize this, turnaround, you can run straight while looking over your shoulder, same thing the WR is doing. 

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Would sure help if we jammed more at the LOS. Just because we're saying to play the ball doesn't mean that's what they're doing all the time, esp when playing off - that's when there are opportunities to jump the pass. What I'm saying is playing the ball should be practiced so it's in their toolbox

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33 minutes ago, mjkline1958 said:

Would sure help if we jammed more at the LOS. Just because we're saying to play the ball doesn't mean that's what they're doing all the time, esp when playing off - that's when there are opportunities to jump the pass. What I'm saying is playing the ball should be practiced so it's in their toolbox

Right, that's why I mentioned what Seth Joyner said a while back.   I don't think its practiced as much because they play more zone today.   Eric Allen was the best CB I've seen play for the Eagles.  Just saw a quick video of one of the old Redskins games where we won a high scoring game, Randall was awesome.  Allen got beat a bunch of times by Gary Clark in one on one coverage.  Wouldn't happen today.  I mean if you take all Jalen Mills highlights of getting beat and put them in one game, that was it.  They played different back then, they tried to man up and make plays. That was the norm.  This cover 3 zone stuff is different.  

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You extend your arm out to "feel" the WR that is now long gone while you are trying to "feel" him. IN the meantime, you turn your head and the ball is short and guess what happens 100% of the time, ok 99%, Pass Interference because you just ran over the WR coming back for the ball that you are no longer looking at because you are now trying to find the ball.....all while running full speed. Because you have no idea when the QB has released the ball.  And the rules make it so that if the DB grabs the jersey at all to "feel" the WR, it's an easy holding penalty and automatic First Down.  I'm just saying that if it were easy to do, EVERY SINGLE DB in the NFL would do it THAT way.  Very few have the athleticism and ELITE speed to do it.  And Sherman isn't one of them by the way.  He played in a defense that helped him a lot with a front seven that mauled people.  He is average to below average in SF.

Even the elite ones with today's rules don't look elite on many Sunday afternoons.  Ramsey got exposed on more than one Sunday this year and I consider him a very, very good CB.

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6 hours ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

So don't even try? ok got it

I think you missed my point. I said that corners should always be taught to look back at the ball. That they are trained to read the receiver to know when to look back for the ball. But to do so you have to be in good defensive position first. That’s the tricky part. If you are playing catch up then that’s out the window.

 This is concerning man coverage.

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Eric Berry is the man. He was in excellent coverage. But to play that tall beast, Gronk, and still get around to play the ball was asking too much. Mostly considering he hasn’t played all season. The guy can’t come back from injury and be expected to be All Pro his first snaps back. C’mon guys. I’m cutting him slack. I wish we had a S play that tight in coverage even.

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Schwartz switches it up. Cover 3 has been his favorite here. But he goes Tampa 2 Robber. Some Cover 2. One high S. Dime, Nickel and 4-3. And yes you guys might not be noticing...MAN. Plenty of looks where it’s a combo of man and Zone. But much of what he believes is that the outside corner needs to keep things inside towards help, by keeping outside leverage. He isn’t that predictable playing one defense all the time. That’s why he puts together a solid defense year in and year out. It’s disguise. Not wanting to let you know presnap what the D is. But he doesn’t always move guys all around right before the snap to do it.

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2 hours ago, senhorcook said:

You extend your arm out to "feel" the WR that is now long gone while you are trying to "feel" him. IN the meantime, you turn your head and the ball is short and guess what happens 100% of the time, ok 99%, Pass Interference because you just ran over the WR coming back for the ball that you are no longer looking at because you are now trying to find the ball.....all while running full speed. Because you have no idea when the QB has released the ball.  And the rules make it so that if the DB grabs the jersey at all to "feel" the WR, it's an easy holding penalty and automatic First Down.  I'm just saying that if it were easy to do, EVERY SINGLE DB in the NFL would do it THAT way.  Very few have the athleticism and ELITE speed to do it.  And Sherman isn't one of them by the way.  He played in a defense that helped him a lot with a front seven that mauled people.  He is average to below average in SF.

Even the elite ones with today's rules don't look elite on many Sunday afternoons.  Ramsey got exposed on more than one Sunday this year and I consider him a very, very good CB.

Wasn’t Sherman one of the least thrown at corners in the league this year? And I think you still can use that arm to feel for the WR still. But you have to be looking back for the ball. But the hard part, the part of why everybody can’t do it, is you have to be in good coverage position first. If you are two steps behind you’re caught playing catch-up. You can’t also look back. That’s when the WR comes back for an under thrown ball and it’s pass interference all day long.

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As the San Francisco Chronicle's Eric Branch noted on Thursday, Sherman has allowed only 28 passing yards in coverage because he's been targeted only 10 times and has allowed two completions all season long -- two completions for 28 yards in five games.

The numbers Branch cited in his story come courtesy of Pro Football Focus, which provided more stats to highlight Sherman's effectiveness this season. So far this season, he's allowed the lowest passer rating in coverage and the fewest yards per snap in coverage.

 That’s coming back from Achilles injury.

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40 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Eric Berry is the man. He was in excellent coverage. But to play that tall beast, Gronk, and still get around to play the ball was asking too much. Mostly considering he hasn’t played all season. The guy can’t come back from injury and be expected to be All Pro his first snaps back. C’mon guys. I’m cutting him slack. I wish we had a S play that tight in coverage even.

Actually Berry should have at least blocked that pass if not get the INT. Gronk's slow and the pass was just a tad short. He's hardest to cover when the pass is in front of him, he's a beast to get over.

Berry never looked back

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