DaveSpadaro

[News] Early Thinking On Some Roster Battles To Watch

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McCoy is 31 w/ 3 yrs left on his contract at 13 mill per. Depends on what we'd have to give up to get him and who we'd move to make room for him on the 53 and the cap. Have 10 things going on right now, can barely get in time to type let alone look at trade scenarios, lol! I'm in PA visiting, all week rain

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1 hour ago, mjkline1958 said:

I would make this swap Smalls for Karl....Good chance neither guy makes the current teams rosters....Smalls gives Raiders some depth at RB and Karl brings some youth and competition at the S position 

39 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

I would love to have had McCoy and Cox paired together just not sure how you make that happen now we already have 3 DTs 

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Could you image having essentially two starting DL units Schwartz would be in heaven

First team Barnett/McCoy/Cox/Graham

2nd team Vinny/Malik/Jerigan/Long???(still unknown possibly Sweat/Miller) 

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19 minutes ago, BleedingGreen93 said:

Could you image having essentially two starting DL units Schwartz would be in heaven

First team Barnett/McCoy/Cox/Graham

2nd team Vinny/Malik/Jerigan/Long???(still unknown possibly Sweat/Miller) 

I think DE is more of a need currently.  I'm not counting on anything past Graham, Curry and Barnett.    I think that is what Howie and co need to try to improve.  Really to me it's the key to the team.  Another guy at Long or better level changes things big time.

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6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I think DE is more of a need currently.  I'm not counting on anything past Graham, Curry and Barnett.    I think that is what Howie and co need to try to improve.  Really to me it's the key to the team.  Another guy at Long or better level changes things big time.

Oh i agree was just going with the hypothetical at the moment 

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8 minutes ago, BleedingGreen93 said:

Oh i agree was just going with the hypothetical at the moment 

See... I'm looking at the $$$ too.  We need DE.... so by keeping Long and adding McCoy... that's a bump in the cap hits.... instead of McCoy and Long, we can probably save a decent amount of $$ while also upgrading the spot that will have the most impact.  

I like this new thing with the comp picks getting more value ... makes next week a little interesting.  Another thing, I think an underrated part of the success the last two years was the ability to get players all throughout the offseason/ preseason/ season .... waiver pickups, signings of PS...whatever.  I like our foundation, I also like how I feel our FO is not lazy and will not be outworked.  I think they will tweak the roster all the way until the end of the season.    This should be a fun year.  

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1 hour ago, BleedingGreen93 said:

I would make this swap Smalls for Karl....Good chance neither guy makes the current teams rosters....Smalls gives Raiders some depth at RB and Karl brings some youth and competition at the S position 

I would love to have had McCoy and Cox paired together just not sure how you make that happen now we already have 3 DTs 

I'd like to have the DT depth.They can also do a rotation and in the event one gets injured,you lose nothing

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6 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

See... I'm looking at the $$$ too.  We need DE.... so by keeping Long and adding McCoy... that's a bump in the cap hits.... instead of McCoy and Long, we can probably save a decent amount of $$ while also upgrading the spot that will have the most impact.  

I like this new thing with the comp picks getting more value ... makes next week a little interesting.  Another thing, I think an underrated part of the success the last two years was the ability to get players all throughout the offseason/ preseason/ season .... waiver pickups, signings of PS...whatever.  I like our foundation, I also like how I feel our FO is not lazy and will not be outworked.  I think they will tweak the roster all the way until the end of the season.    This should be a fun year.  

Welp I was just assuming Long doesn't return.We could snag McCoy trade Smalls for a pick or a similarly skilled DE as a project player(someone young with potential)

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5 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But how wise is this? As far as contending and winning a title it’s fantastic. Depends on health. But it would be better if we extend Wentz now. Because if Wentz puts up the kind of numbers and season that I expect he’s going to want a Wilson-esque contract...after this season. If all things go well he could be in the MVP hunt this season. That’s a huge difference in negotiations. Might even make negotiating near impossible to accomplish. I thought Jerry Jones was playing hard ball with Dak last season. Dak couldn’t have asked for but so much on an extension. But then they brought in Cooper. That had to cost them millions a season in the Dak negotiation. And I get the feeling getting all these offensive weapons will cost us millions a season with Wentz also. If he can manage to stay healthy and start every game this season especially.

 I’m not trying to be negative. Just a realist. So we need to get this deal done this season.

You lose me with this line of thinking.   I want to see my guy perform with a roster that is best as possible... I want to see if he can win me a title.  Not see if he can take a scrubby team and make it respectable.   I think Dallas getting Cooper helped in seeing if tehy want to pay Dak.   You are too concerned about the $$ that you are skipping over the more important fact that a team needs to have the right QB in the first place.   

I'm not worried about Wentz's contract.... I think he needs to get it done this offseason due to the CBA rules... nothing to do with waiting to see how he performs and then we may have to overpay next year.   I think plan B is playing out this year AND next year... signing the new deal completely under the new CBA, then Howie can use the signing bonus to keep the cap hits down for a while (and Wentz gets his big $$ up front).... I just don't think year 1 of a new deal makes sense if its in the 2020 season, we wouldn't be able to use the signing bonus in a long term deal, without Wentz having to take lower salaries for years or for us to have to start with a high salary.    Makes no sense for either side.  

Dallas with Dak ... they may franchise tag him in order to do the same thing ...which is either extend him now or wait til 2021.   Rams are in the same boat.  

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5 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Welp I was just assuming Long doesn't return.We could snag McCoy trade Smalls for a pick or a similarly skilled DE as a project player(someone young with potential)

OK, so here is where I disagree....

1, I am not trading for McCoy ... i'll negotiate with him once he clear waivers.   It's a 4th DT ... If I had the choice of what works better.... 3 DTs and 4 DEs... I like that better than 4 DTs and 3 DEs.      WE will play more formatiosn with 3 DEs on the field compared to any with 3DTs (goal line and occasional short yardage)    With that said, I need more snaps from DEs.   Gotta get to the QB.  3 DTs is enough to rotate to stop the run.   I'm also good with an ok #4 DT that might not even play in a game.... I would prefer all 4 of my DEs to be good players  ... not the development guys.   Let the guys develop while being 3rd string.  Which is what I view a #5 DE and a #4DT.  

2.   Cap space is tight , no matter hwo we look at it  We need that money going forward.   Anything spent right now, needs to fill a need.   Going overkill at DT isn't going to help.   If McCoy wants to come for cheap... real cheap... then I'm ok with it.  I'm not taking a $5-10 mil cap hit for him though.  Only way that works is if we lose Long for sure and there are no options at DE other than our young guys.  

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24 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

See... I'm looking at the $$$ too.  We need DE.... so by keeping Long and adding McCoy... that's a bump in the cap hits.... instead of McCoy and Long, we can probably save a decent amount of $$ while also upgrading the spot that will have the most impact.  

I like this new thing with the comp picks getting more value ... makes next week a little interesting.  Another thing, I think an underrated part of the success the last two years was the ability to get players all throughout the offseason/ preseason/ season .... waiver pickups, signings of PS...whatever.  I like our foundation, I also like how I feel our FO is not lazy and will not be outworked.  I think they will tweak the roster all the way until the end of the season.    This should be a fun year.  

Again was just looking around having fun with the hypothetical I already know on the business front this move isn’t happening....

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Here is my view on the RBs....   Last year ... Smallwood and Adams didn't really have experience.   Sure smallwood was on the roster and it was year 3 for him... but if you look at him now, he has the game time in that should help him a lot.   Same with Adams.   

I do think last year, Doug didn't have the confidence in those two ... and a lot was due to experience.   We passed too much last year and it hurt us and #11.    I think we have to look at those two as legit backups and NFL RBs now.   Not stars or anything, but they have played in games and know what its like.    I think I would keep them all to help raise the level of competition during spring and camp.  Let it all play out.  

If we keep 25 offensive players .... 3 QBs, 3 TEs... that's 19 combined with RB, WR and OL.    OL, I think 9... starters with Dillard, Malaita, Pryor and Big V make 9 ... probably swap out Big V for a backup inside.     I have 5 WRs ... Alshon, DeSean, Agholor, JJAW and Hollins .... 5 RBs works with Howard, Sanders, Clement, Smallwood and Adams.      I want that final roster spot to be a battle ... if a 6th WR/ return guy can earn it, then great.   If not, I'm good with the 5 RBs.... Smallwood can play ST so he has value.    If a trade comes up, then great.    This move with the Raiders, doesn't have to be made for a while.   We can put in a call to discuss... which I'm sure they always do.   But i'm in no rush.  We could get a RB injured and so could other teams... increases the value.    In Smallwood's case... Clement and Adams are recovering from surgery... I think patience is smart with all that right now.  

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6 minutes ago, BleedingGreen93 said:

Again was just looking around having fun with the hypothetical I already know on the business front this move isn’t happening....

I gotcha my man... relax a little.   Was just saying my perspective.   That lineup could still happen... Long may decide to play ... and if McCoy comes cheap... there is your solid 8.    I wouldn't write it completely off at all.... I'm just wanting to take care of DE first.  And also not looking to take a cap hit for McCoy.   At this point ... Long needs to decide ...and McCoy still needs to decide to take less money.  

Now from a $$$ aspect .... Tampa lost 2 WRs .. would Agholor as their #3 make sense?  Trading Agholor for McCoy?   That would help with the cap space.  If they are ok with how the young guys or a possible acquistion could fill in for Agholor in the slot.... then could make sense.     Lots of possibilities with trades ... because we don't really know which players are disgruntled or who coaches may want to unload due to new systems?   

To me ... all cherry on top once I get that #4 DE spot locked up.   and like you ... Hall and Ostman are not guys I'm relying on.  

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25 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

OK, so here is where I disagree....

1, I am not trading for McCoy ... i'll negotiate with him once he clear waivers.   It's a 4th DT ... If I had the choice of what works better.... 3 DTs and 4 DEs... I like that better than 4 DTs and 3 DEs.      WE will play more formatiosn with 3 DEs on the field compared to any with 3DTs (goal line and occasional short yardage)    With that said, I need more snaps from DEs.   Gotta get to the QB.  3 DTs is enough to rotate to stop the run.   I'm also good with an ok #4 DT that might not even play in a game.... I would prefer all 4 of my DEs to be good players  ... not the development guys.   Let the guys develop while being 3rd string.  Which is what I view a #5 DE and a #4DT.  

2.   Cap space is tight , no matter hwo we look at it  We need that money going forward.   Anything spent right now, needs to fill a need.   Going overkill at DT isn't going to help.   If McCoy wants to come for cheap... real cheap... then I'm ok with it.  I'm not taking a $5-10 mil cap hit for him though.  Only way that works is if we lose Long for sure and there are no options at DE other than our young guys.  

Didnt say to trade for him.I said I would see if I can pick him up as you said at a decent price.I then would trade Smalls for a future DE with "work to do" but who has the potential

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18 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Here is my view on the RBs....   Last year ... Smallwood and Adams didn't really have experience.   Sure smallwood was on the roster and it was year 3 for him... but if you look at him now, he has the game time in that should help him a lot.   Same with Adams.   

I do think last year, Doug didn't have the confidence in those two ... and a lot was due to experience.   We passed too much last year and it hurt us and #11.    I think we have to look at those two as legit backups and NFL RBs now.   Not stars or anything, but they have played in games and know what its like.    I think I would keep them all to help raise the level of competition during spring and camp.  Let it all play out.  

If we keep 25 offensive players .... 3 QBs, 3 TEs... that's 19 combined with RB, WR and OL.    OL, I think 9... starters with Dillard, Malaita, Pryor and Big V make 9 ... probably swap out Big V for a backup inside.     I have 5 WRs ... Alshon, DeSean, Agholor, JJAW and Hollins .... 5 RBs works with Howard, Sanders, Clement, Smallwood and Adams.      I want that final roster spot to be a battle ... if a 6th WR/ return guy can earn it, then great.   If not, I'm good with the 5 RBs.... Smallwood can play ST so he has value.    If a trade comes up, then great.    This move with the Raiders, doesn't have to be made for a while.   We can put in a call to discuss... which I'm sure they always do.   But i'm in no rush.  We could get a RB injured and so could other teams... increases the value.    In Smallwood's case... Clement and Adams are recovering from surgery... I think patience is smart with all that right now.  

Agreed,but I think at some point either Smalls or Adams becomes expendable(for whatever we want/need).I am happy we added to the S depth.Should be a nice battle there and at CB

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IDK as far as those 2 RB's I would even look at another LB for depth.LOVE how we have built this team.Pretty impressive after the Chip debacle to get this kind of roster as fast as we have

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11 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I gotcha my man... relax a little.   Was just saying my perspective.   That lineup could still happen... Long may decide to play ... and if McCoy comes cheap... there is your solid 8.    I wouldn't write it completely off at all.... I'm just wanting to take care of DE first.  And also not looking to take a cap hit for McCoy.   At this point ... Long needs to decide ...and McCoy still needs to decide to take less money.  

Now from a $$$ aspect .... Tampa lost 2 WRs .. would Agholor as their #3 make sense?  Trading Agholor for McCoy?   That would help with the cap space.  If they are ok with how the young guys or a possible acquistion could fill in for Agholor in the slot.... then could make sense.     Lots of possibilities with trades ... because we don't really know which players are disgruntled or who coaches may want to unload due to new systems?   

To me ... all cherry on top once I get that #4 DE spot locked up.   and like you ... Hall and Ostman are not guys I'm relying on.  

Lmao I’m good McCoy coming cheap though unlikely dude is still a top 43 DT he comes here would likely be as the starter hence me not seeing it happen 

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4 minutes ago, BleedingGreen93 said:

Lmao I’m good McCoy coming cheap though unlikely dude is still a top 43 DT he comes here would likely be as the starter hence me not seeing it happen 

Maybe he would take less for a shot at a ring HAHAHA.Players actually WANT to play here now

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13 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Didnt say to trade for him.I said I would see if I can pick him up as you said at a decent price.I then would trade Smalls for a future DE with "work to do" but who has the potential

WE have 4 of those types already.    Hall, Ostman, Sweat and the new kid from Penn State.    The 4th DE needs to be a legit player ... Long or another vet.   No more projects.   

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1 hour ago, BleedingGreen93 said:

Could you image having essentially two starting DL units Schwartz would be in heaven

First team Barnett/McCoy/Cox/Graham

2nd team Vinny/Malik/Jerigan/Long???(still unknown possibly Sweat/Miller) 

My thoughts are go ahead and let Long walk,replace him with McCoy in the scenario you have listed.3 SOILD DT's along with the same BU's

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Just now, joemas6 said:

WE have 4 of those types already.    Hall, Ostman, Sweat and the new kid from Penn State.    The 4th DE needs to be a legit player ... Long or another vet.   No more projects.   

Penn guy is a project,can't hurt getting another one and may the best man make the team.The more competition the better we will be 

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10 minutes ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Agreed,but I think at some point either Smalls or Adams becomes expendable(for whatever we want/need).I am happy we added to the S depth.Should be a nice battle there and at CB

That would be the ideal scenario... that those guys become expendable... as of now, I don't think they are.  too early yet... conversations should take place.... teams will try to low ball now.   WE can let is develop naturally.   I want to see Clement and Adams healthy first.  

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Just now, GreenbleedinFL said:

Penn guy is a project,can't hurt getting another one and may the best man make the team.The more competition the better we will be 

BTW until I see something ANY of those are replaceable

Just now, joemas6 said:

That would be the ideal scenario... that those guys become expendable... as of now, I don't think they are.  too early yet... conversations should take place.... teams will try to low ball now.   WE can let is develop naturally.   I want to see Clement and Adams healthy first.  

Sure and we need to see those 2 on the bubble get healthy and what they can offer.loser goes away

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Very happy with the Dillard pick(steal) and glad we locked up our LOT spot for the future.As you know I was concerned about this previously,but that is done,at least for the foreseeable future.I wasn't expecting a RB that early,but obviously they know more than me(or I HOPE so HAHA)

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Watched more on JJ.Yep I totally overlooked this guy,but a very nice selection.The DE from Penn,still on the fence.We shall see

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