DaveSpadaro

[News] Early Thinking On Some Roster Battles To Watch

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3 hours ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Yeah can see Lock and Rypien as the 2 for awhile.IDK Mayfield started right off the bat,so 2-3 years is not out of the question

Yeah... Mayfield was drafted 1st ... not UDFA.   Denver has a vet ... and a guy they drafted in round 2 to be the future guy.   You get points if this kid can ever be a starter, doesn't need to be 2-3 years... and won't be his fault either... probably just won't get the chance if they need to develop the guy in front of him.  

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3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I agree with all this but it should have been a six million dollar one year contract if he’s healthy. But yes that was my one sticking point bad contract Rosie made at the time. Never thought he deserved that kind of cheddar. And I’m not so sure I can rely on Jernigan as the number three now. So I’m really thinking Hester is the third DT.

Yeah... nobody was as genius as you in figuring Jernigan was going to get injured.... I give you credit for that one, pure genius.    Otherwise ... you are saying he is good enough for his deal.   Which if you looked at it, was pretty decent as far as team friendly.    

But sorry.... I can't give you credit for saying anything ...similar to where you din't want to pay Cox ... and wanted to pay Ertz $30 mil of a cap hit up front without understanding rolling cap.    Jernigan got hurt... otherwise he would have gotten an 8 figure / year deal.   

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3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

If we brought in McCoy I’d have no problem running with five DT. Especially like I’ve been talking about using Fletch back outside at DE more(if we could create numbers at DT).

When did "Fletch"play outside in a 4-3?      He played DE in a 3-4 .. which is basically a 4-3 DT.  He had an OLB next to him ... a 4-3 DE is the last guy setting the edge... Fletch hasn't done that.   b   I would take McCoy on the cheap... he is a good player... was a great player ... not paying him the big $$.   I would prefer a true DE ... but if Ziggy is hurt and not reliable, IDK if there is anyone else out there.  These moves don't have to be made ASAP though.   

 

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5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Yeah... nobody was as genius as you in figuring Jernigan was going to get injured.... I give you credit for that one, pure genius.    Otherwise ... you are saying he is good enough for his deal.   Which if you looked at it, was pretty decent as far as team friendly.    

But sorry.... I can't give you credit for saying anything ...similar to where you din't want to pay Cox ... and wanted to pay Ertz $30 mil of a cap hit up front without understanding rolling cap.    Jernigan got hurt... otherwise he would have gotten an 8 figure / year deal.   

Not following you here. Slow down on the sauce man. I never said any of this. The injury to Jernigan saved Rosie from that bad contract. No one championed signing Cox like me. And the Ertz stuff is just out of thin air.

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1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Not following you here. Slow down on the sauce man. I never said any of this. The injury to Jernigan saved Rosie from that bad contract. No one championed signing Cox like me. And the Ertz stuff is just out of thin air.

Ham,  ... you were doing your normal complaining about the signing bonus and how the cap hits increase each year..... you said if it were you ... you would pay them up front when the team is building , so that when the team gets good there would be less of a cap hit.... you wanted Ertz to take his $30 mil cap hit year one...lol.     You seriously don't remember?     Ertz made too much money ... Cox you didn't like the structure of the deal.... "too much cap hit at the end so they will need to be cut early"  was your excuse. 

I think we let Howie do his thing with the contracts... I really don't think we ever lost a player because we couldn't pay him ... more so we didn't want to pay him.      They wanted to pay Jernigan ... the cap hits were pretty fair and the contract was good before the injury...  if he perfromed... at his age, still plenty of time before he sees 30 ... the contract would have been redone to push the cap hits back again just like everyone else.   I know the concept scares you... but if you actually look at the numbers and the way the cap is going, its very smart way to do business.   

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17 hours ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

Sure,but you insulted 2 long time experienced Eagles players I happen to like without justification accusing them of "sandbagging",so as a fan I will defend them,because this is my team

hmmmm just wonder if you read the articles or you just come on here to make yourself feel important

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Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

I have to disagree. Jernigan was never worth the 4 year 48 million contract extension.

Because you still don't get the concept of the signing bonus and the restructure.    You see 4 years at $8 mil and think $12 mil per.... that's it.   It's why you are worried about Wentz's deal getting too big.... you are missing the point of the signing bonus lowwering the cap hit early, then the restructure 3 or 4 years in to lower the cap hits again.    You will see 5 years $160 mil and automatically think $32 mil per.    That's not how it works.   

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And my problem is signing guys to contracts that average 10 mil and only taking a two mil cap hit year one. And the real issue is I just wanted to clear our cap disaster so we started with a clean slate after Chip. I’m not taking it back because we won a Super Bowl. Huge moment for us. But there is no denying how great a dynasty we could have created had we not started out in such a type cap situation. That was a bunch of dead money to deal with. Had we cleared that dead money and then had extra money to roll over and then went on this run we’d be unstoppable. We wouldn’t let Blount walk over two million. And we could have obviously picked up a few bigger free agents along the way. That’s where you just don’t understand the rolling cap. If we had the extra money rolling from the beginning it would be a huge benefit. And yes I wanted to have the extra money rolling over while also paying big longer term players more then instead of backloading it. That’s just a win win if you make good decisions. Because you give yourself more future cap by rolling over money and you have less to pay the great players in the future seasons against the cap. Seems like basic math to me. Not sure why it’s so complicated for you to comprehend. Just obvious.

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18 minutes ago, mateagle2 said:

hmmmm just wonder if you read the articles or you just come on here to make yourself feel important

Whatever you think bud.Just put me on ignore,problem solved 😀

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12 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Because you still don't get the concept of the signing bonus and the restructure.    You see 4 years at $8 mil and think $12 mil per.... that's it.   It's why you are worried about Wentz's deal getting too big.... you are missing the point of the signing bonus lowwering the cap hit early, then the restructure 3 or 4 years in to lower the cap hits again.    You will see 5 years $160 mil and automatically think $32 mil per.    That's not how it works.   

Never said it worked like that at all. But I do understand that if you sign a 4 year 48 million contract and only take a cap hit of 2 million year one then the cap hit in the future will be much larger than that players average salary value. It obviously all depends on details. But you loved running DJax and Shady out of town because of their cap hits. Their contracts they signed were fair market value. But the initial cap hits were so low that obviously the future cap hits were tough to swallow.

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3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

And my problem is signing guys to contracts that average 10 mil and only taking a two mil cap hit year one. And the real issue is I just wanted to clear our cap disaster so we started with a clean slate after Chip. I’m not taking it back because we won a Super Bowl. Huge moment for us. But there is no denying how great a dynasty we could have created had we not started out in such a type cap situation. That was a bunch of dead money to deal with. Had we cleared that dead money and then had extra money to roll over and then went on this run we’d be unstoppable. We wouldn’t let Blount walk over two million. And we could have obviously picked up a few bigger free agents along the way. That’s where you just don’t understand the rolling cap. If we had the extra money rolling from the beginning it would be a huge benefit. And yes I wanted to have the extra money rolling over while also paying big longer term players more then instead of backloading it. That’s just a win win if you make good decisions. Because you give yourself more future cap by rolling over money and you have less to pay the great players in the future seasons against the cap. Seems like basic math to me. Not sure why it’s so complicated for you to comprehend. Just obvious.

Why does the cap situation effect the dynasty?    What are your plans that you would have changed everything ?   You think the Eagles would have went back to 2011 and just bought every player??       The cap is just part of it... having cap space doesn't translate into championships.   I don't think they wanted Blount ... they wanted youth and the comp pick.   And I don't think Blount would have meant Dynasty.  

I understand the cap just fine ... I think you have the New York Yankees approach  to life... we'll just buy everything .  In 2011 we had all the cap space ... spent all the money.... how did that work out?     You need to draft and sign the right players and you need to coach them up ... you need to avoid injuries...etc.     32 teams out there.... how come nobdy else is winning SBs because they have all this cap space and they buy all the players?   

You said you liked how SF was doing things ... saving cap space so now they can go out and get all the players ...etc.   I think the Eagles and the cap are fine... you don't over pay for players regardless of your cap space ... winning teams have not done that.   

I really just htink you need to complain about everything because in your mind you know everything about all the college players, the nfl players ,the coahes and the salary cap aswell.   I think we all have opinions... but we should eb able to agree when it comes to the cap, we are more than fine with Howie managing it.  

 

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5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Never said it worked like that at all. But I do understand that if you sign a 4 year 48 million contract and only take a cap hit of 2 million year one then the cap hit in the future will be much larger than that players average salary value. It obviously all depends on details. But you loved running DJax and Shady out of town because of their cap hits. Their contracts they signed were fair market value. But the initial cap hits were so low that obviously the future cap hits were tough to swallow.

OK.... if you sing a 4 year $48 mil deal.... lets take a look at $2 mil year one .... and $12mil each year.   I know I did this before, but you still don't get it so lets do it again......  YEAR BY YEAR

4 years $48 mil ..... with $10 mil signing bonus .... ($2 mil was used in 2017 so he could get the money ASAP, so lets call it $8 mil signing bonus from $2018-2021.... with $38 mil of salary still needed to be paid in those 4 years.
 

2018 ......    $2 mil signing bonus ..... $3 mil salary ..... $5 mil cap hit      ....       
2019 ....      $2 mil signing bonus ....   $11 mil salary .... $13 mil cap hit ........ total $18 mil cap hit in 2 years  ($6 mil savings if you did $12 mil per)
2020 .....    $2mil signing bonus  ....    $12 mil salary ....  $14 mil cap hit  ...... total  $32 mil cap hi in 3 years  ( $4 mil savings if you did $12 mil per)
2021 ....      $2 mil signing bonus ....  $12 mil salary ....  $14 mil cap hit  ..... total $46 mil cap hit in 4 years  (  $2 mil savings if you did $12 mil per)

Now techinically ... you can add the $2 mil from 2017 from the start ... so you can lower the cap savings $2 mil each year to where its even after 2021.    But look at it... 2 THINGS ...

1.   if you cut him early ... you save the cap hits in total
2.  If he performs well, you extend him and push back the cap hits... similar to Cox, Lane, Ertz, Brooks, Jenkins ...etc.

Now... is $14 mil of a cap hit that much worse than $12 mil ..... now keep in mind, the cap is rolling, so saving it year one means it rolls forward.   Also keep in mind the cap goes up each year.   

Now look at Cox... Absolute Stud!!!   WE just had him from 2016- 2019 ... going on year 4....  his total cap hit for these 4 years is going to be $39 mil.   This is a $20 mil per year guy!    You just had him for less than 10 in his first 4 years.     Now you complain about the cap hits later ...   from 2020 -2022 ... $22 mil cap hit each year .... but look at how the cap went up from 2016 to 2020.   It's a no-brainer to do it this way.     Thats $105mil over 7 years ... $15 mil per.     Your way we would have  used  $45 mil  so far instead of $27 mil.    And up to $60 mil including this season as compared to $39 mil.    $21 mil more?      Why .. .because you are afraid to have the $7 mil more in years 5-7 when the team cap goes up a ton? 

Makes no sense.  The way they do it now,  forces guys to earn the last years of their deals, and gives the team way more flexibility.  It's really not even close.  

       

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I guess I think that the money does matter. That we settled for Wallace because that’s all the cap room we had. Couldn’t afford the bigger gun. Settled for our RB situation because we were too cap strapped. We just saw the Rams go from a contending team in 2017 to the SB last year. They had money to add some big money guys. They were the better team by far than the Pats last year. Goff and McVay choked. That’s not because of salary cap. Brady and Bellicheat are still great. How great were they when they added a big expensive WR in Moss? Undefeated regular season great.  Would I like to add Gerald McCoy right now? Yes...why yes I would. But his money isn’t small. So cap space is a factor. We can go down the line of every free agent and every possible trade. You have to make good decisions regardless. But having money helps.

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You get lost in the fact that the team cap goes up every year. You think I’ll just take bigger cap hits on these contracts later because the team cap rises. With that player salaries go up though. So signing that same player three years later costs that much more. So you need more to sign guys than you did years earlier. You are trying to give all that cap inflation to guys you signed four years ago instead of realizing the free agents and retaining your own players costs that much more now.

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If you sign a guy to a 4 year 40 mil contract. If I take a 12 mil cap hit year one and you take a 3 mil cap hit year one. If we both have 10 mil in additional rollover team cap that season ....which team is in better shape in the future?

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2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I guess I think that the money does matter. That we settled for Wallace because that’s all the cap room we had. Couldn’t afford the bigger gun. Settled for our RB situation because we were too cap strapped. We just saw the Rams go from a contending team in 2017 to the SB last year. They had money to add some big money guys. They were the better team by far than the Pats last year. Goff and McVay choked. That’s not because of salary cap. Brady and Bellicheat are still great. How great were they when they added a big expensive WR in Moss? Undefeated regular season great.  Would I like to add Gerald McCoy right now? Yes...why yes I would. But his money isn’t small. So cap space is a factor. We can go down the line of every free agent and every possible trade. You have to make good decisions regardless. But having money helps.

Who was the bigger gun .... who didn;t we afford in 2011?     Again.... has there been a team that has won a SB with your theory of just spending big with all the free agents?    Now... we won a title... in the last 2 years ... other than NE, nobody has had more success.    So lets compare the Rams and lets see how we do going forward in coparison.     Money didn't win them a title.... they have made it to a SB... we won one.... they made the playoffs the other year... we won a playoff game.   WE are ahead of the Rams so far.   But lets see year 3.  They bought their guys... lets see who does better.    According to you... you would rather be the Rams than the Eagles going forward.  I like our  chances better we shall see in these next few years.  

As for McCoy.... I think they don't want to over pay him... yeah money is a factor... just that you think we would overpay if we could, while I don't think so.  Again...really it takes some serious arrogance for a fan to think they can manage the cap better than Howie.   I find it hilarious myself.   

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4 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

You get lost in the fact that the team cap goes up every year. You think I’ll just take bigger cap hits on these contracts later because the team cap rises. With that player salaries go up though. So signing that same player three years later costs that much more. So you need more to sign guys than you did years earlier. You are trying to give all that cap inflation to guys you signed four years ago instead of realizing the free agents and retaining your own players costs that much more now.

Ham.... you have theories..... put it in numbers.    I know its hard, because #s don;t lie.... its easy to BS a theory and try to look smart.   If you can put in in numbers then i'll respect you more.

So lets look at Wentz now .... how would you write his next contract?   

 

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3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

If you sign a guy to a 4 year 40 mil contract. If I take a 12 mil cap hit year one and you take a 3 mil cap hit year one. If we both have 10 mil in additional rollover team cap that season ....which team is in better shape in the future?

LOL...  How about this......  we both have $15 mil of cap space when we sign the player ..... you take a $12 mil cap hit and now roll $3 mil over .... I take a $3 mil cap hit and roll over $12 mil      You see... keepign things even and in reality.  You want the best of both worlds in a fantasy world where the numbers don't add up.    

Like ... lets both spend $10k on a car.... I'll take the Corvette... and you take eh Chevette.   LOL   It doesn't work that way.    How are you going to roll over the same money as me if you spend more now?    

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2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Who was the bigger gun .... who didn;t we afford in 2011?     Again.... has there been a team that has won a SB with your theory of just spending big with all the free agents?    Now... we won a title... in the last 2 years ... other than NE, nobody has had more success.    So lets compare the Rams and lets see how we do going forward in coparison.     Money didn't win them a title.... they have made it to a SB... we won one.... they made the playoffs the other year... we won a playoff game.   WE are ahead of the Rams so far.   But lets see year 3.  They bought their guys... lets see who does better.    According to you... you would rather be the Rams than the Eagles going forward.  I like our  chances better we shall see in these next few years.  

As for McCoy.... I think they don't want to over pay him... yeah money is a factor... just that you think we would overpay if we could, while I don't think so.  Again...really it takes some serious arrogance for a fan to think they can manage the cap better than Howie.   I find it hilarious myself.   

This is total hogwash. Salary cap is one thing. Coaching, city and ownership are different. Pedey did better. Foles did better. Goff and McVay choking isn’t a salary cap issue. Were they a much better team than the Pats personnel wise? Way better. Did the Pats top WR getting a concussion early in the game help us win the title? Probably. 

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2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

LOL...  How about this......  we both have $15 mil of cap space when we sign the player ..... you take a $12 mil cap hit and now roll $3 mil over .... I take a $3 mil cap hit and roll over $12 mil      You see... keepign things even and in reality.  You want the best of both worlds in a fantasy world where the numbers don't add up.    

Like ... lets both spend $10k on a car.... I'll take the Corvette... and you take eh Chevette.   LOL   It doesn't work that way.    How are you going to roll over the same money as me if you spend more now?    

Because that was the whole original point. Clear cap space while paying top players more up front cap hit wise. But your dodging of the question is the answer. 

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8 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

If you sign a guy to a 4 year 40 mil contract. If I take a 12 mil cap hit year one and you take a 3 mil cap hit year one. If we both have 10 mil in additional rollover team cap that season ....which team is in better shape in the future?

Ham and Joe each walk into a store with $20.   Ham spends $12 ... .Joe spends $3 .... yet they each walk out of the store with $10..... LOL.  #s don't add up my man.  Its not how it works.  

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

This is total hogwash. Salary cap is one thing. Coaching, city and ownership are different. Pedey did better. Foles did better. Goff and McVay choking isn’t a salary cap issue. Were they a much better team than the Pats personnel wise? Way better. Did the Pats top WR getting a concussion early in the game help us win the title? Probably. 

Yeah... but you said we would have a dynasty if we could manage the cap better... lol   

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1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Because that was the whole original point. Clear cap space while paying top players more up front cap hit wise. But your dodging of the question is the answer. 

Ham... again.    If yuo want to make a fair comparison.   WE both start with the same cap space right?    Why do you get more in your fantasy world?   

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So again... we have Wentz coming up..... show me some #s and how you would do the contract?   

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5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham and Joe each walk into a store with $20.   Ham spends $12 ... .Joe spends $3 .... yet they each walk out of the store with $10..... LOL.  #s don't add up my man.  Its not how it works.  

Yeah... but you said we would have a dynasty if we could manage the cap better... lol   

I said that if originally before our dynasty if we paid the big players more up front(cap hit wise) and created more rollover cap by clearing out dead money and not maxing our spending. Then we would owe those same players less and we would have extra rollover money to work with. Wouldn’t have been as good the first year but would have been in a better sustainable dynasty position.

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ham... again.    If yuo want to make a fair comparison.   WE both start with the same cap space right?    Why do you get more in your fantasy world?   

Because the whole point was about clearing the cap in the first place

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