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6 minutes ago, downwithdallas said:

And I will stick to my original argument that Elite QB or elite RB doesn't matter without a good offensive line. Go through your list of superbowl teams more have won it with lesser QBs then bad offensive lines.

IDK... lets try this one .... make a list of top 20 QB, RB and OLs ..... you  are building a team and can choose any from two of the three categories ... the other one you can't pick from the top 20.     My guess... you will choose a QB and an OL from top of the lists ...and take a RB that you would have ranked in the early 20s if you were building your team?     If you want to make a point that OL is more important than QB ... go ahead... again, my only point is you most likely will allow yourself to select a RB that isn't top 20.   

Gurley, Dallas OL and Andy Dalton

Mahomes, Gurley and the Giants OL

Mahomes, Dallas OL and Sony Michell   (or you pick 30 RBs to eliminate and drop even further down the list)  

IDK if the specifics are that important, but you can probably shuffle guys in and out of here, the idea being that to build a team you probably don't prioritize getting that elite RB... because the team can function at a high level with a quality starter.  Probably easier to build long term success with looking at things this way.  Not saying game manager QBs haven;t had success... not saying decent OLs haven't had success... just the odds are that you would prefer to build with an elite QB and OL and take the decent quality RB.  

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9 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right... so again... the facts remain about the last 2 decades.... the reasons, we can debate them.   I like all your reasons.  for some reason I think you are trying to make an argument against me for something I didn't say?    IDK ... I just know that I like our Eagles situation going forward more than the Giants and Dallas whom I believe will invest/rely too much on their RBs.    You want to have the Wentz discussion, thats another thing ... but I do agree with you that the key to the Giants will be their QB.   My hope, is he is just good enough to play along the elite RB in Barkley... and it will be Shady/ AP all over again. with the bar set low for a QB in an offense built around the elite RB.  

Currently I can't say I like our future in the division better then anyone else because we don't know if Wentz can be a healthy QB and we are old. But even with a healthy Wentz if Jones is even Stafford level if they get a good offensive line in the next few years rookie QB and RB contracts gives them money and can bring in weapons. We had one of the oldest teams in the NFL last year. Bennett, Wallace, Long, Graham and Ngata not being here helps but some of our best players are getting old too Peters 37, Kelce 31, Jenkins 31, Jackson 32, Graham 31, Johnson 29, M Jackson 29, Brooks 29, Brown 29, Bradham 29, Cox 28, Ertz 28, McLeod 28. That's 13 starters 28 or older as of right now and probably by the end of the year a new contract for Wentz. Which means we better draft better then we have been because we need to replace our vets and won't have money to do so in FA. Cox is going to want a new deal soon too.

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1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

IDK... lets try this one .... make a list of top 20 QB, RB and OLs ..... you  are building a team and can choose any from two of the three categories ... the other one you can't pick from the top 20.     My guess... you will choose a QB and an OL from top of the lists ...and take a RB that you would have ranked in the early 20s if you were building your team?     If you want to make a point that OL is more important than QB ... go ahead... again, my only point is you most likely will allow yourself to select a RB that isn't top 20.   

Gurley, Dallas OL and Andy Dalton

Mahomes, Gurley and the Giants OL

Mahomes, Dallas OL and Sony Michell   (or you pick 30 RBs to eliminate and drop even further down the list)  

IDK if the specifics are that important, but you can probably shuffle guys in and out of here, the idea being that to build a team you probably don't prioritize getting that elite RB... because the team can function at a high level with a quality starter.  Probably easier to build long term success with looking at things this way.  Not saying game manager QBs haven;t had success... not saying decent OLs haven't had success... just the odds are that you would prefer to build with an elite QB and OL and take the decent quality RB.  

The cowboys did pretty good with their Oline RB QB being the worst of the 3 in the 90s it's been a long time since a team built like that has been around but the Cowboys were a better team then us when Wentz was in last year and were better then us with Foles too. So you can say it obviously works for them still. Rams too

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4 hours ago, joemas6 said:

I agree.... you need to look no further than knowing the Eagles won a SB without an elite RB ... and Dallas hasn't won a divisional round playoff game yet with their elite RB.   I'm hoping we DON'T that.  

Fact, we did win a Super Bowl without an elite RB and we won a Super Bowl without an elite QB as well. Now the thing I am not sure about is whether the Eagles win the first game against Dallas without Elliot being suspended and not playing since they never beat him before. If we don't win that game we don't end up with the number one seed and if we don't end up with the number one seed all bets are off on winning the Super Bowl. So we should all thank Roger Goodell for our Super Bowl win since he suspended Elliot!

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51 minutes ago, downwithdallas said:

Currently I can't say I like our future in the division better then anyone else because we don't know if Wentz can be a healthy QB and we are old. But even with a healthy Wentz if Jones is even Stafford level if they get a good offensive line in the next few years rookie QB and RB contracts gives them money and can bring in weapons. We had one of the oldest teams in the NFL last year. Bennett, Wallace, Long, Graham and Ngata not being here helps but some of our best players are getting old too Peters 37, Kelce 31, Jenkins 31, Jackson 32, Graham 31, Johnson 29, M Jackson 29, Brooks 29, Brown 29, Bradham 29, Cox 28, Ertz 28, McLeod 28. That's 13 starters 28 or older as of right now and probably by the end of the year a new contract for Wentz. Which means we better draft better then we have been because we need to replace our vets and won't have money to do so in FA. Cox is going to want a new deal soon too.

Yeah, I like our team team more.   We can disagree on that.    

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41 minutes ago, 1wrangler said:

Fact, we did win a Super Bowl without an elite RB and we won a Super Bowl without an elite QB as well. Now the thing I am not sure about is whether the Eagles win the first game against Dallas without Elliot being suspended and not playing since they never beat him before. If we don't win that game we don't end up with the number one seed and if we don't end up with the number one seed all bets are off on winning the Super Bowl. So we should all thank Roger Goodell for our Super Bowl win since he suspended Elliot!

IDK.... you could easily say Wentz played Elite the whole year before the injury and then Foles played an elite 2 games at the end.   In other words... elite QB play.   We all know your opinion of the defense in the SB.      As for Zeke... I'll check back in 5 years and see which team wins more playoff games.  I'll wager half of Shady's 10 cent tip on the Eagles all day.  And I don't really care if Dallas beats us 7 out of the 10 head to head games... all that matters is how far each team advances in Jan/ Feb.  On a side note... looking forward to the Eagles kicking Dallas butt simply so I don't have to hear this anymore.   I wish Sudfeld would have beaten Dallas that last game in 2017 so this wouldn't be a thing you keep harping on .... Sudfeld is less likable to me now because of this ... lol.  

Remember those Buddy Ryan years where we used to kick the Giants butt head to head ... then they had 2 parades in 86 and 90?  I'll take the two parades.  

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y Kempski Retweeted
Retired #Eagles DE Chris Long — winner of the 2019 Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year award — says he regularly used marijuana during his NFL career [via @adamwhermann] https://www.phillyvoice.com/nfl-eagles-chris-long-marijuana-career-patriots-weed/ 
 
Replying to @JOEL9ONE

Chris, I too have an admission. I too used marijuana during your career

 

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Chris Long admitting he used weed, that's ok.

The guy replying that he had to admit that he also used weed during Chris's career is funny as hell

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1 hour ago, downwithdallas said:

The cowboys did pretty good with their Oline RB QB being the worst of the 3 in the 90s it's been a long time since a team built like that has been around but the Cowboys were a better team then us when Wentz was in last year and were better then us with Foles too. So you can say it obviously works for them still. Rams too

Exceptions to every rule my friend.   I never said anything was 100% did I?    Just having the choice... you look around the league today... pick your top 20 at QB, OL and RB .... you can take anyone you want at 2 of the spots.... can't be a top 20 team on the 3rd.   Which way do you want to take your chances?    Again... you are playing the percentages ... its your preference.   A title can be won in many ways ... but how would you go about constructing your team when it comes to these 3 spots?    

We know you value the OL ... then just look at ... Mahomes & Damian Williams ... or Barkley and Andy Daulton.     Brady and James Connor ... or Zeke and Marcus Mariota?  No wrong answer.   But again though ... its why I like the Eagles over Dallas ... i'll take our QB, which we disagree that he is elite... which is fine.   Nobody has to agree on everything.   

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LMAo ok we are now predicatcing winning SB's with either QB or RB.facts are it takes  whole team.So you can blah blah all day about teams with elite RB's not winning.WHY" cause the gnats O line is AWFUL.So Eli won a Sb without an elite RB,so therefore he MUST be an elite QB

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13 minutes ago, mjkline1958 said:
y Kempski Retweeted
Retired #Eagles DE Chris Long — winner of the 2019 Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year award — says he regularly used marijuana during his NFL career [via @adamwhermann] https://www.phillyvoice.com/nfl-eagles-chris-long-marijuana-career-patriots-weed/ 
 
Replying to @JOEL9ONE

Chris, I too have an admission. I too used marijuana during your career

 

LMAo but seriously how did he pass drug testing?

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I guess when I think back on great QB's and great RB's and how many of these guys made the largest contribution to winning Super Bowls, Terry Bradshaw is the guy who comes to my mind. He won 4 Super Bowls so does that make him an elite QB because he was at the helm when they were won? I don't know! Its like which comes first the chicken or the egg? Was Bradshaw elite before he won the Super Bowls or after?  

Here are his stats for his career, Bradshaw has a 51.9% completion percentage and a touchdown/INT ratio of 212–210 (just 1.01 to 1). In 168 games over 13 full seasons as a starter, he averaged 166.6 yards per game. So was it Bradshaw or Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier who made the greatest contribution?  Or the receiving core? I think most of us would agree that Aaron Rogers is an elite QB and is better than Bradshaw was but he has only won one Super Bowl, Peyton Manning is arguably the best QB who ever played the game but only won two Super Bowls. So how do you define who is an elite QB or an elite RB? 

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43 minutes ago, 1wrangler said:

I guess when I think back on great QB's and great RB's and how many of these guys made the largest contribution to winning Super Bowls, Terry Bradshaw is the guy who comes to my mind. He won 4 Super Bowls so does that make him an elite QB because he was at the helm when they were won? I don't know! Its like which comes first the chicken or the egg? Was Bradshaw elite before he won the Super Bowls or after?  

Here are his stats for his career, Bradshaw has a 51.9% completion percentage and a touchdown/INT ratio of 212–210 (just 1.01 to 1). In 168 games over 13 full seasons as a starter, he averaged 166.6 yards per game. So was it Bradshaw or Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier who made the greatest contribution?  Or the receiving core? I think most of us would agree that Aaron Rogers is an elite QB and is better than Bradshaw was but he has only won one Super Bowl, Peyton Manning is arguably the best QB who ever played the game but only won two Super Bowls. So how do you define who is an elite QB or an elite RB? 

With that defense Bradshaw just had to not LOSE the game.

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5 hours ago, 1wrangler said:

I guess when I think back on great QB's and great RB's and how many of these guys made the largest contribution to winning Super Bowls, Terry Bradshaw is the guy who comes to my mind. He won 4 Super Bowls so does that make him an elite QB because he was at the helm when they were won? I don't know! Its like which comes first the chicken or the egg? Was Bradshaw elite before he won the Super Bowls or after?  

Here are his stats for his career, Bradshaw has a 51.9% completion percentage and a touchdown/INT ratio of 212–210 (just 1.01 to 1). In 168 games over 13 full seasons as a starter, he averaged 166.6 yards per game. So was it Bradshaw or Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier who made the greatest contribution?  Or the receiving core? I think most of us would agree that Aaron Rogers is an elite QB and is better than Bradshaw was but he has only won one Super Bowl, Peyton Manning is arguably the best QB who ever played the game but only won two Super Bowls. So how do you define who is an elite QB or an elite RB? 

Yeah... my point was the last 20 years.  I think the game has changed... away from the RB and towards the QB.  In terms of team success. 

How do you define an elite RB.  Idk... but here is a simple way.  You can have any RB you want on your team,  probably that guy is elite.  The answer could change as you ask people, chances are those guys are elite too.  Probably because people will answer with guys like ... Zeke, Barkley, Bell, Gurley... etc.  That's not a shot at the Jay Ajayi, Damian Williams and Blounts of the world, but elite to me are the very best at their spots. 

So like... you have fans on here that say, " man I wish we had that RB" and I'm like... ehhhh,  not really.  I can get a Jay Ajayi, Blount, Clement... or Sony, James White, Burkhead combo and win with that and invest other in other positions.   It's all opinion.

Who knows... maybe we see a pro bowl RB win a SB soon?   Gurley was close.  Maybe Kamara can win before Brees retires?  It's not impossible. 

 

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4 hours ago, ASG15 said:

With that defense Bradshaw just had to not LOSE the game.

Yes... then he could sip some Schlitz and put in his best bell bottoms after the game... and reflect on how good that Steel Curtain just played.

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7 hours ago, joemas6 said:

IDK.... you could easily say Wentz played Elite the whole year before the injury and then Foles played an elite 2 games at the end.   In other words... elite QB play.   We all know your opinion of the defense in the SB.      As for Zeke... I'll check back in 5 years and see which team wins more playoff games.  I'll wager half of Shady's 10 cent tip on the Eagles all day.  And I don't really care if Dallas beats us 7 out of the 10 head to head games... all that matters is how far each team advances in Jan/ Feb.  On a side note... looking forward to the Eagles kicking Dallas butt simply so I don't have to hear this anymore.   I wish Sudfeld would have beaten Dallas that last game in 2017 so this wouldn't be a thing you keep harping on .... Sudfeld is less likable to me now because of this ... lol.  

Remember those Buddy Ryan years where we used to kick the Giants butt head to head ... then they had 2 parades in 86 and 90?  I'll take the two parades.  

I could also say Foles played elite his 27/2 season or in relief of Wentz but are you going to say Foles is an elite QB?

6 hours ago, mjkline1958 said:
y Kempski Retweeted
Retired #Eagles DE Chris Long — winner of the 2019 Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year award — says he regularly used marijuana during his NFL career [via @adamwhermann] https://www.phillyvoice.com/nfl-eagles-chris-long-marijuana-career-patriots-weed/ 
 
Replying to @JOEL9ONE

Chris, I too have an admission. I too used marijuana during your career

 

I will admit it as well. 

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6 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Exceptions to every rule my friend.   I never said anything was 100% did I?    Just having the choice... you look around the league today... pick your top 20 at QB, OL and RB .... you can take anyone you want at 2 of the spots.... can't be a top 20 team on the 3rd.   Which way do you want to take your chances?    Again... you are playing the percentages ... its your preference.   A title can be won in many ways ... but how would you go about constructing your team when it comes to these 3 spots?    

We know you value the OL ... then just look at ... Mahomes & Damian Williams ... or Barkley and Andy Daulton.     Brady and James Connor ... or Zeke and Marcus Mariota?  No wrong answer.   But again though ... its why I like the Eagles over Dallas ... i'll take our QB, which we disagree that he is elite... which is fine.   Nobody has to agree on everything.   

And if they didn't see any QBs as franchise QBs do you not go in the other direction and wait till the next year and take the best player available. Isn't that what you preach during draft time? If they decided he was the best player in the draft would you not follow your draft board? At that point this argument is silly do you pass a guy for someone else you don't believe in? 

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15 hours ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

QB's win? But noone else pitches in? Ok got it.As i said call the pats,you and me can be their RB's since,they have Brady(6th round),they need nothing else.Then from them we got this clown Blount,who helped win us a SB 

 

15 hours ago, joemas6 said:

I agree.... you need to look no further than knowing the Eagles won a SB without an elite RB ... and Dallas hasn't won a divisional round playoff game yet with their elite RB.   I'm hoping we DON'T that.  

 

15 hours ago, downwithdallas said:

So you are saying you can't win with an elite running back you need an elite QB. I believe we won with an average QB and that was 2 years ago. It doesn't matter who you have at any position it's a team sport and the best teams win.

This is entertainment here. Not these posts specifically, but the random combo. I was LMAO several times, good stuff. I think one important part missing from this master debate though is coaching/play calling/situational ball. All three which lend a huge hand to how successful/unsuccessful these QB's/RB's are even if the main topic is about demigod QB's. I know the disgustion (lol) didn't begin this way, but nonetheless the coaching factor is a missing element in this tri-dispute. Without this component, who knows if the games these QB's prospered in would've panned out the same way. The coaching is another ingredient - even though they're not executing on the field - of these QB's/RB's that plays a vast part in dictating how well these players look on the field of play.

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3 hours ago, downwithdallas said:

I could also say Foles played elite his 27/2 season or in relief of Wentz but are you going to say Foles is an elite QB? 

I will admit it as well. 

I found this a great example DWD. Did coaching or other components of the O/D change the outcome of the Eagles' success that season. You bet it did. Hurry up O, gassed out-all sucking down O2 tanks Dfence was a big factor=coaching.

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16 hours ago, downwithdallas said:

Currently I can't say I like our future in the division better then anyone else because we don't know if Wentz can be a healthy QB and we are old. But even with a healthy Wentz if Jones is even Stafford level if they get a good offensive line in the next few years rookie QB and RB contracts gives them money and can bring in weapons. We had one of the oldest teams in the NFL last year. Bennett, Wallace, Long, Graham and Ngata not being here helps but some of our best players are getting old too Peters 37, Kelce 31, Jenkins 31, Jackson 32, Graham 31, Johnson 29, M Jackson 29, Brooks 29, Brown 29, Bradham 29, Cox 28, Ertz 28, McLeod 28. That's 13 starters 28 or older as of right now and probably by the end of the year a new contract for Wentz. Which means we better draft better then we have been because we need to replace our vets and won't have money to do so in FA. Cox is going to want a new deal soon too.

I would agree with most of what you say... we are an older team with most of those guys still performing at a high level the one area I am not the slight bit concerned about is money...not with the way Howie the magician has managed our dollars.

14 hours ago, mjkline1958 said:
y Kempski Retweeted
Retired #Eagles DE Chris Long — winner of the 2019 Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year award — says he regularly used marijuana during his NFL career [via @adamwhermann] https://www.phillyvoice.com/nfl-eagles-chris-long-marijuana-career-patriots-weed/ 
 
Replying to @JOEL9ONE

Chris, I too have an admission. I too used marijuana during your career

 

U da man mjkline 1958 Way to start my morning...hehehehehehe.

13 hours ago, GreenbleedinFL said:

LMAo but seriously how did he pass drug testing?

Please...  average NON millionaire types routinely defeat most of these drug tests particularly ganja tests... Its shocking how these wealthy guys with the resources...don’t take the time to protect their jobs.

7 hours ago, downwithdallas said:

I could also say Foles played elite his 27/2 season or in relief of Wentz but are you going to say Foles is an elite QB?

I will admit it as well. 

DWD... I guess that is what they mean by " Birds of A Feather.”   I am in as well... It certainly a very lucrative stock to invest in 💰💰💰where is our resident expert Stine when it comes to stocks for some investment advice.

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Tornadoes all around us the last couple of days. Closest about 15 miles.

If you don't hear from me again you can assume I've been taken to Oz

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Goog luck ASG. Been watching the news and you're expecting more today.

BG staying during a CAT 4, you living in a tornado zone - you're all nuckin futs!

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3 hours ago, trini said:

the one area I am not the slight bit concerned about is money...not with the way Howie the magician has managed our dollars.

I think we will be ok cap wise but you won't see the same caliber of players when we have 2 players with 100+ million dollar contracts in Wentz and Cox not to mention Lane and Ertz will want new deals before 2022 possibly before 2021. All of that is big money contracts. We will need to fill our holes cheaper in FA so drafting good will be of utmost importance. Not that it isn't now but it will be even more vital by then.

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11 hours ago, downwithdallas said:

And if they didn't see any QBs as franchise QBs do you not go in the other direction and wait till the next year and take the best player available. Isn't that what you preach during draft time? If they decided he was the best player in the draft would you not follow your draft board? At that point this argument is silly do you pass a guy for someone else you don't believe in? 

????   Again .. I think you are having 2 different conversations.   You keep quoting me and talking about a draft???  

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