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NFL Live ranks NFC East QBs...Foles #1

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42 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

OK, forget "best QBs in the East". How about "Which NFC East QB would you pick to win 1 game?"  

I have : Wentz / Foles / Smith / Eli / Dak

 

Umm... I mean that's tough because Eli has in the past shown he can do it in one game and I don't know if I fully trust Foles... But then Foles is SB MVP and so there is that. Hmm yeah see I can decide. 

Maybe... 

Yeah I started typing my order and it's hard to argue really. Though I guess the bottom three are very interchangeable. 

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1. Wentz
2. Foles

From there, you can move them around. But of the non-Eagles QB's, I think the QB most likely to win a Super Bowl is probably Manning. I wouldn't put him at #5. The Giants sucked last year, but that was a byproduct of their coach and all their injuries. Getting healthy and now with Barkley, I think they'll be ahead of the Cowboys and Redskins.

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6 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

1. Wentz
2. Foles

From there, you can move them around. But of the non-Eagles QB's, I think the QB most likely to win a Super Bowl is probably Manning. I wouldn't put him at #5. The Giants sucked last year, but that was a byproduct of their coach and all their injuries. Getting healthy and now with Barkley, I think they'll be ahead of the Cowboys and Redskins.

I dunno bud... His stats have been declining for a few years now. He's definitely not the player he was though I agree he's not been helped by the coaches and injuries. He could and likely will be better this year but I still don't trust him generally. Feels to me he's had his day. But hey he's been there and done it which is more than you say for Dak and Smith. 

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51 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I dunno bud... His stats have been declining for a few years now. He's definitely not the player he was though I agree he's not been helped by the coaches and injuries. He could and likely will be better this year but I still don't trust him generally. Feels to me he's had his day. But hey he's been there and done it which is more than you say for Dak and Smith. 

I just think that if the Eagles are out of the picture, he has a better team around him. If you take his career and remove the post season, are his (regular season) stats declining? I haven't really looked, and I'm actually getting ready to run to McDonald's for some McNuggets, so I'll take a look at those when I get back home.

But you give him his full complement of players and then do the same for the Cowboys and Redskins, right now, I'm putting the Giants ahead of the other two. Of course, Alex Smith is a bit of an unknown for the Redskins. So that remains to be seen and before 2017, I'd probably have put the Cowboys ahead of the Giants but Prescott didn't impress me all that much without Ewok.

All of that said:

1. Wentz
2. Foles

The other three are just 'also rans'.

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Clearly it is:

Dak

Alex Smith

Nick Foles

Carson Wentz

Eli Manning

 

 

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7 hours ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

OK, forget "best QBs in the East". How about "Which NFC East QB would you pick to win 1 game?"  

I have : Wentz / Foles / Smith / Eli / Dak

 

Just curious why Wentz automatically gets the top spot and why the hell would you put Smith ahead of Eli? Wentz is unquestionably the guy you build your franchise around, but the kid still hasn’t won a big game in his short career. 

Also I’m assuming  in this scenario all things would be equal, correct? 

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5 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

All of that said:

1. Wentz
2. Foles

The other three are just 'also rans'.

I can’t tell if you’re joking around or not. I know Foles is now a folk hero in Philly, but there’s no question that he gets lumped in with the ‘also rans’ in the division. You gotta look at the full body of work. 

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Just now, BKLYNYG said:

I can’t tell if you’re joking around or not. I know Foles is now a folk hero in Philly, but there’s no question that he gets lumped in with the ‘also rans’ in the division. You gotta look at the full body of work. 

As the division sits right this moment, June 4th, 2018, the reigning Super Bowl MVP and holder of the best post season Passer Rating in NFL history, is top 2 in the division. Will that change come week 1? Depends on whether he's playing or whether Carson's playing. But as it sits right now, he is in the top 2 of the Division for this moment. "body of work" isn't really part of it. We're not counting Eli's 2007 season. We're talking about right this moment with only 2017 to consider.

So, delete 1900 through 2016 from your memory. You only have 2017 to consider.

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4 minutes ago, boogyman said:

Manning has almost as many ints in one season as Foles has in his career

Manning also has a hell of a lot more games, attempts, completions and TDs so I don't feel like that's a completely fair comparison. 

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1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Manning also has a hell of a lot more games, attempts, completions and TDs so I don't feel like that's a completely fair comparison. 

I am not comparing the players really. But if someone says to compare the body of work than you need to look at the good and bad from both players. Manning has piled up tons of stats. But some of them are really bad stats too. He has won a whole lot of games, but lost a lot too (I think the 5th most losses).

 

Foles has had some rough stretches, and each time the team he was with completely gave up on him even though he has shown he can play brilliantly in the right situation. If the Giants did the same to Manning history would be a lot different. But they didnt. They stuck with him and it worked out well for the most part.

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13 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

Just curious why Wentz automatically gets the top spot and why the hell would you put Smith ahead of Eli? Wentz is unquestionably the guy you build your franchise around, but the kid still hasn’t won a big game in his short career. 

Also I’m assuming  in this scenario all things would be equal, correct? 

Oh yeah, all things equal.  

My personal preference -- if I had last season, pre-injury Wentz, I take him every day of the week.  He's mobile, he's a leader, he's got a cannon for an arm and takes lots of shots down the field.  Your point is taken about him not winning a big game in his career.  I'm just not sure who I'd put at that top spot if not him.  Foles?

I think you can maybe swap Eli / Smith.  Smith was pretty good last season, and Eli wasn't, so that's why I had that order.  Now, if we're talking about Eli in his prime then this is a different story.  Eli in his prime is no lower than 2nd on this list.  

 

 

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14 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

As the division sits right this moment, June 4th, 2018, the reigning Super Bowl MVP and holder of the best post season Passer Rating in NFL history, is top 2 in the division. Will that change come week 1? Depends on whether he's playing or whether Carson's playing. But as it sits right now, he is in the top 2 of the Division for this moment. "body of work" isn't really part of it. We're not counting Eli's 2007 season. We're talking about right this moment with only 2017 to consider.

So, delete 1900 through 2016 from your memory. You only have 2017 to consider.

Yes, as it stands right now, Foles is right in line with players like Manning and Smith. He's not a top tier QB, I don't care how good of a playoff run he had. 

Body of work certainly comes into play. If Rodgers finished last year with a stretch of bad games, would you remove him from top 5 QB consideration? No, because his full body of work suggests he'll probably bounce back. 

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5 hours ago, boogyman said:

Manning has almost as many ints in one season as Foles has in his career

Foles has 39 starts, which barely even qualifies as a career. Hat tip to the guy for denying Brady and the city of Boston a championship, but you just can't compare Foles' career with Eli's....and I am NOT a big Eli fan. If they Giants announced they were going with Webb to start the season I'd be fine with it. 

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1 hour ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Oh yeah, all things equal.  

My personal preference -- if I had last season, pre-injury Wentz, I take him every day of the week.  He's mobile, he's a leader, he's got a cannon for an arm and takes lots of shots down the field.  Your point is taken about him not winning a big game in his career.  I'm just not sure who I'd put at that top spot if not him.  Foles?

I think you can maybe swap Eli / Smith.  Smith was pretty good last season, and Eli wasn't, so that's why I had that order.  Now, if we're talking about Eli in his prime then this is a different story.  Eli in his prime is no lower than 2nd on this list.  

 

 

All things being equal with one game to win, right now I'd go Wentz, Eli, Foles, Smith, Dak. In that order. I challenged you on Wentz, but at the end of the day I agree. He's just the best player, maybe the best player in the division along with guys like OBJ and Cox. 

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27 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

Foles has 39 starts, which barely even qualifies as a career. Hat tip to the guy for denying Brady and the city of Boston a championship, but you just can't compare Foles' career with Eli's....and I am NOT a big Eli fan. If they Giants announced they were going with Webb to start the season I'd be fine with it. 

I didnt. I was not comparing the two players directly.  I was using it as an example of "body of work". When looking at body of work you look at the entire thing, which includes the bad.

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40 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

Yes, as it stands right now, Foles is right in line with players like Manning and Smith. He's not a top tier QB, I don't care how good of a playoff run he had. 

Body of work certainly comes into play. If Rodgers finished last year with a stretch of bad games, would you remove him from top 5 QB consideration? No, because his full body of work suggests he'll probably bounce back. 

Who has the highest post season passer rating in NFL history as of right now  (that's not just this past post season, either)?

Who is the reigning Super Bowl MVP?

Right this minute, and from January 1 until at least September 6th, Nick Foles is top 2 in the NFC East.

If Rodgers hasn't gotten hurt would I remove him from top 5 consideration? Well, Rodgers isn't in the NFC East, so I don't take Rodgers into consideration at all.

When the NFL Network does their top 100 players for 2018, do they take Eli's Super Bowl past into consideration when ranking him on that list? No, they're taking 2017 into consideration. Not his 'body of work'. We're not talking about top 5 NFC East QB's of the past 15 years. We're talking about top 5 NFC East QB's coming out of the 2017 season and going into the 2018 season.

So I'm not sure you're looking at this situation correctly. Ignore the 28 teams (and all of their players) not in the NFC East. Ignore all seasons from the beginning of time until the start of the 2017 season. You can only consider the 2017 season and the outlook going into training camp with an eye on week 1 of 2018, because we're only talking about 'right this moment' and we're only talking about Carson Wentz, Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Alex Smith and Dak Prescott.

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9 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Who has the highest post season passer rating in NFL history as of right now  (that's not just this past post season, either)?

Who is the reigning Super Bowl MVP?

Right this minute, and from January 1 until at least September 6th, Nick Foles is top 2 in the NFC East.

If Rodgers hasn't gotten hurt would I remove him from top 5 consideration? Well, Rodgers isn't in the NFC East, so I don't take Rodgers into consideration at all.

When the NFL Network does their top 100 players for 2018, do they take Eli's Super Bowl past into consideration when ranking him on that list? No, they're taking 2017 into consideration. Not his 'body of work'. We're not talking about top 5 NFC East QB's of the past 15 years. We're talking about top 5 NFC East QB's coming out of the 2017 season and going into the 2018 season.

So I'm not sure you're looking at this situation correctly. Ignore the 28 teams (and all of their players) not in the NFC East. Ignore all seasons from the beginning of time until the start of the 2017 season. You can only consider the 2017 season and the outlook going into training camp with an eye on week 1 of 2018, because we're only talking about 'right this moment' and we're only talking about Carson Wentz, Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Alex Smith and Dak Prescott.

Your logic is flawed, as usual, and you're clearly one of those guys suffering from Foles-induced euphoria, but I'll play along. Let's get crazy, why are we even looking at what happened 5 months ago (8 months by the time the season started). Foles is no longer riding a hot hand. His post season passer rating and MVP mean nothing. He's back to being just Nick Foles, i.e., an average QB lumped together with Eli and Smith.

NFL top 100, ha. They have Stefon Diggs ranked higher than OBJ at WR. I think I'll pass on using that scoring mechanism. 

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45 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

NFL top 100, ha. They have Stefon Diggs ranked higher than OBJ at WR. I think I'll pass on using that scoring mechanism

But here your logic is flawed because the top 100 is supposed to be based on last year. Well it doesn't take much to say I'd rather Diggs in 2017 than OBJ in 2017.

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1 hour ago, BKLYNYG said:

NFL top 100, ha. They have Stefon Diggs ranked higher than OBJ at WR. I think I'll pass on using that scoring mechanism. 

Logic? I'm not sure you know what that is.

You don't seem to get that we're only talking about 2017, heading into 2018.

Stefon Diggs: 64/849 13.3 YPC 8 TDs
Beckham, Jr: 25/302 12.1 YPC 3 TDs

For 2017, Diggs should rank higher.

I don't give the top 100 list any credibility either though, because Beckham is ranked and shouldn't be (that's not the only reason I don't give it any credibility but it's part of it). The players vote for the name and not what the players actually did. Beckham was hurt and only played... how many games? He shouldn't be on the list at all, not because he's not good but because he shouldn't qualify for this years list.

So, of the 2017 NFC East QB's, did Eli have a better season than Nick Foles? I've set Alex Smith at the bottom and set apart because he's a wildcard of sorts having never played for the Redskins and in the NFC East. So we don't know what lies in store for him.

Carson Wentz: 265/440 60.2% 3296 YDS 33 TDs 7 INTs 102 Passer Rating
Nick Foles: 135/207 64.7% 1508 YDS 11 TDs 3 INTs 98.1 Passer Rating *Super Bowl MVP*

Dak Prescott: 308/490 62.9% 3324 YDS 22 TDs 13 INTs 86.6 Passer Rating
Eli Manning: 352/571 61.6% 3468 YDS 19 TDs 13 INTs 80.4 Passer Rating

Alex Smith: 341/505 67.5% 4,042 YDS 26 TDs 5 INTs 104.7 Passer Rating

So, how do you rank those 5 QB's as of this moment and not considering seasons from 10 years ago?

 

 

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