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TO skipping HOF ceremony

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40 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

The Hall of Fame should skip inducting him.

Probably feels slighted because he wasn't a 1st ballot. I get it.

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10 minutes ago, judunno said:

Probably feels slighted because he wasn't a 1st ballot. I get it.

That's crybaby-ish. He's a grown man, he ought to act like one and not an entitled pos. Getting into the Hall of Fame is an honor and he's lucky to be honored with it. How many years has Harold Carmichael been waiting? That man should have been in a long time ago.

As for '1st ballot', that should be an honor reserved for the most rare best of the best of the best. It shouldn't be something that we see very often because very few of those that get in on the first ballot, are the 'rare best of the best of the best'.  

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Just now, VaBeach_Eagle said:

That's crybaby-ish. He's a grown man, he ought to act like one and not an entitled pos. Getting into the Hall of Fame is an honor and he's lucky to be honored with it. How many years has Harold Carmichael been waiting? That man should have been in a long time ago.

As for '1st ballot', that should be an honor reserved for the most rare best of the best of the best. It shouldn't be something that we see very often because very few of those that get in on the first ballot, are the 'rare best of the best of the best'.  

It's TO... why would you expect more?

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He had an opportunity to give a good speech and present himself in a respectful manner. 

Instead, he decides to be a complete arse. His supporters are just as bad. They're saying garbage like

"Hey it's his right to celebrate his induction anyway he wants"

Well sure. I mean its my right if I wanted to celebrate the birth of our son at a strip club while my wife pushed him out of her but that probably wouldn't put me in the best light.

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He's broke.  I'm sure he will throw his own event & charge admission.

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Here is some perspective on the voters.

Jim Kelly is a great guy and he belongs in the Hall, but he went first ballot because he was friendly with sportswriters. Think about the QBs in that era, year by year was he the 7th best? 8th? He was fantastic in 1990 and 1991 and pretty mediocre the rest of his career. 3 of his 5 pro bowl seasons are absolute jokes. Does the 6th best of anything get in on the first ballot?

  • '86 he was 8th in QB rating (behind Ken O'Brien)
  • '87 he was 10th (behind Marc Wilson)
  • '88 he was not in the top 10 (behind Wilson, Everett, Kosar, Lomax, Simms, etc)
  • '89 he was 6th (behind Esiason, Everett, and Rypien)
  • '90 he was 1st
  • '91 he was 3rd
  • '92 he was tied for 10th with Cody Carlson and behind O'Donnell and Hebert
  • '93 he was not in the top 10 (behind Testaverde, Brister, Mitchell, and Hebert)
  • '94 he was 7th (behind Everett and 5 Hall of Famers)
  • '95 out of the top 10 (behind Kramer, Mitchell, George, Chandler, and Testaverde)
  • '96 out of the top 10 (behind Johnson, Testaverde, Brunell, Hostetler, and Detmer)

His first 4 years in the league he was an 82 rated passer with a one game under .500 record and he already went to 2 pro bowls? Again, he went to 4 Super Bowls (with a great team, not Elway style) and if he eventually gets in we are all fine with it, but he is not first ballot unless the voting is heavily flawed.

From 1986 through 1990 Kelly had 105 TDs and 71 picks. Cunningham had 106 to 63 over the same period. (another guy who had 2 fantastic years and also had struggles)

Digest that for a second, Cunningham was the better PASSER from '86 to '90 when compared to Kelly. BTW, Cunningham also ran for 3232 yards and 23 TDs at 7.1 a pop during that time. Its clear who the better player was over that 5 year stretch. Cunningham is a borderline Hall of Famer and I could concede that Kelly had the better overall career, but first ballot to not elected difference?

Maybe the USFL was a factor? Then why is Hershel Walker not in the Hall?

If you combine the 'carried in the playoffs' stereotypes of Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, and Rex Grossman they have a total of 20 TDs and 19 picks in the playoffs. Jim Kelly has 20 TDs and 28 picks in the playoffs. The jokes are a combined 10 wins and 7 losses. Kelly was 9-8 in the playoffs.

 

The Art Monk fiasco should have led to real change. I hope this writers as hurt feelings snowflakes fiasco does. I would suggest the writers have a say in a vote, but that Hall of Famers and a former coach/GM panel each have equal if not more say.

These voters should know what the hell they are doing and they should be more like the players (not a bunch of old, fat guys who never played a sport at a high level in their life)

8th in catches, 2nd in yards, and 3rd in TDs means first ballot. Voting is not about teaching players a lesson. All the coaches and GMs did that when TO could not get a job following a 938 yard 9 TD season. 30 GMs did that 2 years earlier when he was stuck having to play for Buffalo and Cincy. I loved rooting against him in Dallas and I hated his guts, but that does not mean he was not a great player.

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Good, I don't want to see his career get celebrated. Just play a short video and move on to the real inductions.

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On 6/9/2018 at 10:22 AM, skippyx said:

8th in catches, 2nd in yards, and 3rd in TDs means first ballot. Voting is not about teaching players a lesson. All the coaches and GMs did that when TO could not get a job following a 938 yard 9 TD season. 30 GMs did that 2 years earlier when he was stuck having to play for Buffalo and Cincy. I loved rooting against him in Dallas and I hated his guts, but that does not mean he was not a great player.

All very good points and I agree with yourself on him really getting jobbed both later on in his career, when he still produced at a very high level, and by getting slighted without a first ballot. The fact that he is going in with Moss and Lewis, who got in as first ballots, also with very troubled pasts, probably weighed in to his decision to skip it. All 3 of those players were the best of their period, and some if not the best of all-time. Why they didn't have to wait while he did seems silly to me.

While I still think it's dumb for him to not go and basically vindicates why people didn't want to vote him in... I also hope it brings about change in the hall of fame process and what it means to get in. Personally I wasn't happy with guys like even Warner and Davis getting in. In the case of Davis I felt his career was too short. He had a couple of absolutely amazing seasons but that was it. In the case of Warner same deal with Davis of having a few absolutely amazing seasons. But he also had a lot of dud seasons too. I don't think either of them get in if they weren't on T.V. personally.

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No better way to make him the focus of the ceremony.

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On 6/9/2018 at 12:22 PM, skippyx said:

Here is some perspective on the voters.

Jim Kelly is a great guy and he belongs in the Hall, but he went first ballot because he was friendly with sportswriters. Think about the QBs in that era, year by year was he the 7th best? 8th? He was fantastic in 1990 and 1991 and pretty mediocre the rest of his career. 3 of his 5 pro bowl seasons are absolute jokes. Does the 6th best of anything get in on the first ballot?

  • '86 he was 8th in QB rating (behind Ken O'Brien)
  • '87 he was 10th (behind Marc Wilson)
  • '88 he was not in the top 10 (behind Wilson, Everett, Kosar, Lomax, Simms, etc)
  • '89 he was 6th (behind Esiason, Everett, and Rypien)
  • '90 he was 1st
  • '91 he was 3rd
  • '92 he was tied for 10th with Cody Carlson and behind O'Donnell and Hebert
  • '93 he was not in the top 10 (behind Testaverde, Brister, Mitchell, and Hebert)
  • '94 he was 7th (behind Everett and 5 Hall of Famers)
  • '95 out of the top 10 (behind Kramer, Mitchell, George, Chandler, and Testaverde)
  • '96 out of the top 10 (behind Johnson, Testaverde, Brunell, Hostetler, and Detmer)

His first 4 years in the league he was an 82 rated passer with a one game under .500 record and he already went to 2 pro bowls? Again, he went to 4 Super Bowls (with a great team, not Elway style) and if he eventually gets in we are all fine with it, but he is not first ballot unless the voting is heavily flawed.

From 1986 through 1990 Kelly had 105 TDs and 71 picks. Cunningham had 106 to 63 over the same period. (another guy who had 2 fantastic years and also had struggles)

Digest that for a second, Cunningham was the better PASSER from '86 to '90 when compared to Kelly. BTW, Cunningham also ran for 3232 yards and 23 TDs at 7.1 a pop during that time. Its clear who the better player was over that 5 year stretch. Cunningham is a borderline Hall of Famer and I could concede that Kelly had the better overall career, but first ballot to not elected difference?

Maybe the USFL was a factor? Then why is Hershel Walker not in the Hall?

If you combine the 'carried in the playoffs' stereotypes of Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer, and Rex Grossman they have a total of 20 TDs and 19 picks in the playoffs. Jim Kelly has 20 TDs and 28 picks in the playoffs. The jokes are a combined 10 wins and 7 losses. Kelly was 9-8 in the playoffs.

 

The Art Monk fiasco should have led to real change. I hope this writers as hurt feelings snowflakes fiasco does. I would suggest the writers have a say in a vote, but that Hall of Famers and a former coach/GM panel each have equal if not more say.

These voters should know what the hell they are doing and they should be more like the players (not a bunch of old, fat guys who never played a sport at a high level in their life)

8th in catches, 2nd in yards, and 3rd in TDs means first ballot. Voting is not about teaching players a lesson. All the coaches and GMs did that when TO could not get a job following a 938 yard 9 TD season. 30 GMs did that 2 years earlier when he was stuck having to play for Buffalo and Cincy. I loved rooting against him in Dallas and I hated his guts, but that does not mean he was not a great player.

I still think boomer was better from that era. Kelly and aikman played on teams loaded with hof talent. 

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10 hours ago, Northern Green Wings said:

All very good points and I agree with yourself on him really getting jobbed both later on in his career, when he still produced at a very high level, and by getting slighted without a first ballot. The fact that he is going in with Moss and Lewis, who got in as first ballots, also with very troubled pasts, probably weighed in to his decision to skip it. All 3 of those players were the best of their period, and some if not the best of all-time. Why they didn't have to wait while he did seems silly to me.

While I still think it's dumb for him to not go and basically vindicates why people didn't want to vote him in... I also hope it brings about change in the hall of fame process and what it means to get in. Personally I wasn't happy with guys like even Warner and Davis getting in. In the case of Davis I felt his career was too short. He had a couple of absolutely amazing seasons but that was it. In the case of Warner same deal with Davis of having a few absolutely amazing seasons. But he also had a lot of dud seasons too. I don't think either of them get in if they weren't on T.V. personally.

Yes but, now moss and Jerry rice were the only 2 WR to get into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot ever. Also don't forget that clown Owens to this day is still trying to play in the NFL. Why would they vote him in if he was and is still trying to play? He hasn't even filed for retirement yet. 

Based on his numbers yes he should of been in first ballet but, if he wants to make a mockery of the league by not even retiring then in that aspect then the hell with him let him wait. 

 

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On 6/12/2018 at 1:19 AM, bwestbrook36 said:

Yes but, now moss and Jerry rice were the only 2 WR to get into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot ever. Also don't forget that clown Owens to this day is still trying to play in the NFL. Why would they vote him in if he was and is still trying to play? He hasn't even filed for retirement yet. 

Based on his numbers yes he should of been in first ballet but, if he wants to make a mockery of the league by not even retiring then in that aspect then the hell with him let him wait. 

 

I honestly dont think he should have been allowed in.

 

While he has the #s and individual achievements football is the ultimate team sport. T.o. was probably the worst teamate in nfl history and as a result outside of one year in philly he was never part of much post season success.

 

After leaving san fran he bashes garcia including gay slurs. Garcias personal life is not public business. 

 

Obviously what he pulled here was the worst of it. Seeing the actual reports i dont feel he should have been allowed back in the league. To this day he still bashes mcnabb at every opportunity when honestly i havent heard mcnabb say a peep about him. 

 

After fake crying in dallas for romo mocking his malicious behavior toward mcnabb and garcia, later he accusses romo and witten of conspiring against him after a game he was targeted 29 times in a loss. Hed be released that offseason. Teams would no longer keep him past 1 year again. 

 

All production aside his character towards his teams to me speaks louder than his production. Great player. Lousy human being. Not hall worthy.

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29 minutes ago, bobbywizdum said:

I honestly dont think he should have been allowed in.

 

While he has the #s and individual achievements football is the ultimate team sport. T.o. was probably the worst teamate in nfl history and as a result outside of one year in philly he was never part of much post season success.

 

After leaving san fran he bashes garcia including gay slurs. Garcias personal life is not public business. 

 

Obviously what he pulled here was the worst of it. Seeing the actual reports i dont feel he should have been allowed back in the league. To this day he still bashes mcnabb at every opportunity when honestly i havent heard mcnabb say a peep about him. 

 

After fake crying in dallas for romo mocking his malicious behavior toward mcnabb and garcia, later he accusses romo and witten of conspiring against him after a game he was targeted 29 times in a loss. Hed be released that offseason. Teams would no longer keep him past 1 year again. 

 

All production aside his character towards his teams to me speaks louder than his production. Great player. Lousy human being. Not hall worthy.

Well they kept him out 2 years based off of just that and now he isn't going to the ceremony so he once again proved them right for keeping him out. That being said he should be in. If they kept players out for being a lousy human being I don't think a lot of players would be in the hall lol. 

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On 6/15/2018 at 10:54 AM, bwestbrook36 said:

Well they kept him out 2 years based off of just that and now he isn't going to the ceremony so he once again proved them right for keeping him out. That being said he should be in. If they kept players out for being a lousy human being I don't think a lot of players would be in the hall lol. 

Its a thin line i guess. Guys like josh gordon and justin blackman couldnt stay in the league due to conduct. Both had tons of talent. T.O meanwhile didnt have substance abuse issues but clearly had issues of dividing every locker room he stepped in. To me he was a worse detriment than a pot smoker but i guess rules are rules. 

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