VaBeach_Eagle

Giants fans... Talk about the Giants

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I think there is a misconception around the NFL that Eli has lost a step.   I think that's an ignorant statement to make.  Eli never had a step.  Eli could never, at any point in his career succeed without an offensive line.  He had a great line from 04-08, a serviceable pass blocking line from 09-12 and the wheels fell off it in 2013.  They went to a short pass West Cost offense in 2014 and 2015 that allowed him to be more successful then he had been in 2013 but they never fixed the glaring issue they had with the team.  They never even began to address it until this offseason.  I'm still not convinced they have done enough to improve their offensive line.  If they have they will be a playoff team this year, but I'm not buying Ereck Flowers at RT.  Just not buying it.  I love the Barkley pick in theory, but if it had been me I probably would have traded down and bolstered the OL even more.  At some point, whether it be with Eli or the next guy they have to pass on the sexy skill position guy and pick a big hulking monster in the first round.  And not a panic pick like Flowers was, just a good solid OL that will anchor the line for years to come.  The Giants have been making the sexy pick for years... and honestly they did it again.  They did go OL in round 2 and he does look good...  But Flowers is still starting at RT.  That's not good. 

As far as how long Eli will play, If he's good this year you will see him next year, if he's not you will probably see Davis Webb.  I doubt the Giants spend a pick on a QB next year.  Webb has all the tools to play and they will have at least another full year to develop him behind the scenes.  I honestly see no reason why he wouldn't get a shot as the QB of the future.  He's 6'5, has a rocket arm, and is quite a bit more mobile then Eli ever was.  He doesn't have great awareness, and he's clearly not ready to be the man right now but he showed last night he has all the tools needed, and if these coaches are such offensive gurus then they should be able to coach him up before he ever sees the field.  My .02 cents.

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3 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

I think there is a misconception around the NFL that Eli has lost a step.   I think that's an ignorant statement to make.  Eli never had a step.  Eli could never, at any point in his career succeed without an offensive line.  He had a great line from 04-08, a serviceable pass blocking line from 09-12 and the wheels fell off it in 2013.  They went to a short pass West Cost offense in 2014 and 2015 that allowed him to be more successful then he had been in 2013 but they never fixed the glaring issue they had with the team.  They never even began to address it until this offseason.  I'm still not convinced they have done enough to improve their offensive line.  If they have they will be a playoff team this year, but I'm not buying Ereck Flowers at RT.  Just not buying it.  I love the Barkley pick in theory, but if it had been me I probably would have traded down and bolstered the OL even more.  At some point, whether it be with Eli or the next guy they have to pass on the sexy skill position guy and pick a big hulking monster in the first round.  And not a panic pick like Flowers was, just a good solid OL that will anchor the line for years to come.  The Giants have been making the sexy pick for years... and honestly they did it again.  They did go OL in round 2 and he does look good...  But Flowers is still starting at RT.  That's not good. 

As far as how long Eli will play, If he's good this year you will see him next year, if he's not you will probably see Davis Webb.  I doubt the Giants spend a pick on a QB next year.  Webb has all the tools to play and they will have at least another full year to develop him behind the scenes.  I honestly see no reason why he wouldn't get a shot as the QB of the future.  He's 6'5, has a rocket arm, and is quite a bit more mobile then Eli ever was.  He doesn't have great awareness, and he's clearly not ready to be the man right now but he showed last night he has all the tools needed, and if these coaches are such offensive gurus then they should be able to coach him up before he ever sees the field.  My .02 cents.

Webb is a bum. Wishful thinking.

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7 hours ago, boogyman said:

Webb is a bum. Wishful thinking.

You base that off one thing, you're an Eagles fan.  Webb has all the physical talent that anyone needs to be successful in the NFL at QB.  It's up to the coaches and Webb to get himself ready. 

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On ‎8‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:16 AM, boogyman said:

Webb is a bum. Wishful thinking.

See, he looked better the 2nd game....what is this, ready-soot-aim stuff with you, man?:flex:

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21 minutes ago, GA4M said:

See, he looked better the 2nd game....what is this, ready-soot-aim stuff with you, man?:flex:

Its preseason. I was not considering his poor first game or good game the other day. He is just not going to be any better than a backup at best.

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18 hours ago, boogyman said:

Its preseason. I was not considering his poor first game or good game the other day. He is just not going to be any better than a backup at best.

Why?  What is your reason behind your statement?  Note you cannot say physical ability because he has all of the physical ability needed to be a star NFL QB.  So if he cannot be good it must be his intangibles and game awareness?  He'll never get any better then he is right now?  That's what you're saying.  What is your reason?  (Spoiler: It's because he's a Giant)

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1 hour ago, Happyfoosball said:

Why?  What is your reason behind your statement?  Note you cannot say physical ability because he has all of the physical ability needed to be a star NFL QB.  So if he cannot be good it must be his intangibles and game awareness?  He'll never get any better then he is right now?  That's what you're saying.  What is your reason?  (Spoiler: It's because he's a Giant)

These project guys that sit on the bench for 2 or 3 years pretty much never amount to anything other than backups. Some guys like Rodgers do well by sitting but they are not what I consider a project. 

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On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, boogyman said:

Its preseason. I was not considering his poor first game or good game the other day. He is just not going to be any better than a backup at best.

Alright, so if it's just preseason.....you still can't say how he'd handle a regular game with the starters in place.

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On 8/21/2018 at 8:17 AM, boogyman said:

These project guys that sit on the bench for 2 or 3 years pretty much never amount to anything other than backups. Some guys like Rodgers do well by sitting but they are not what I consider a project. 

You mean guys like Joe Montana and Tom Brady?  Not every great QB was the number 1 pick in the draft, or even a first rounder.  I'm not saying he will be any of those things.  I'm not saying he will be anything.  I'm not sold on him.  But it's obvious he has the physical ability to play.  We will have to wait and see.  To say that he absolutely will not be is an ignorant statement based on nothing factual. 

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4 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

You mean guys like Joe Montana and Tom Brady?  Not every great QB was the number 1 pick in the draft, or even a first rounder.  I'm not saying he will be any of those things.  I'm not saying he will be anything.  I'm not sold on him.  But it's obvious he has the physical ability to play.  We will have to wait and see.  To say that he absolutely will not be is an ignorant statement based on nothing factual. 

Montana started his second season. Brady was a starter his second season. Neither sat a bench for 2 or 3 years. Try again.

 

 

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1 hour ago, boogyman said:

Montana started his second season. Brady was a starter his second season. Neither sat a bench for 2 or 3 years. Try again.

 

 

Tony Romo, Jimmy Garappolo, Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Schaub, etc.

While by no means were they elite, they all still were above average to very good qbs. Jimmy has really just begun 

The odds are certainly stacked against Webb being a franchise qb but it's not out of the realm of possibility.

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On 8/23/2018 at 8:54 PM, boogyman said:

Montana started his second season. Brady was a starter his second season. Neither sat a bench for 2 or 3 years. Try again.

 

 

What difference does that make?  I'm simply talking about the kind off prospect they were.  To play devils advocate, Montana only had to pass Steve Deberg on the deph chart.   Then Brady, he only played because Bledsoe got hurt.  Eli could get hurt tomorrow and Webb could be in there.   I hope that doesn't happen but that's the NFL. 

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4 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

What difference does that make?  I'm simply talking about the kind off prospect they were.  To play devils advocate, Montana only had to pass Steve Deberg on the deph chart.   Then Brady, he only played because Bledsoe got hurt.  Eli could get hurt tomorrow and Webb could be in there.   I hope that doesn't happen but that's the NFL. 

The difference is your comment had nothing to do with what I said.

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I'm bring this thread up again, now that the Giants have fallen to 1-5. Should the Giants make a move now, or let Eli ride out the season and them move on (either retire or be released)?

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On 8/17/2018 at 6:17 AM, Gmen4ever said:

I was ready to see him go 2 years ago because personally, I think he's done.  If he starts stinking up the joint again this year, it's definitely time to move on. Enough is enough

Still rooting for him to succeed, of course, but I dont see it happening. There are too many signs on full display that he's playing scared, and once that happens...:nonono:

Still in the same place. They have to tear the whole thing down, starting with Eli

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3 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I'm bring this thread up again, now that the Giants have fallen to 1-5. Should the Giants make a move now, or let Eli ride out the season and them move on (either retire or be released)?

Throw Lauletta in there, whats the worst that can happen? Might as well lose and figure out what you've got with the kid, at least it'll be somewhat productive

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On 8/14/2018 at 11:20 PM, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I'm just curious, how much more time do you want Eli to hang in there? Are you in for the long haul or are you about ready to have him retire?

I'm honestly hoping he retires at the end of this year.  They have to play him the rest of the year because Webb is gone.  So let him play 16, we can draft the next guy in the draft this year.  I can't say the Giants made a mistake drafting Barkley, if we get a QB this year and you have Barkley to pair with that QB... I can't say that wasn't the right move.  Barkley is so damn good.

12 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

Throw Lauletta in there, whats the worst that can happen? Might as well lose and figure out what you've got with the kid, at least it'll be somewhat productive

Because he's a fourth round pick and he's not ready.  Be realistic.   Had they kept Webb they could have put him in there.

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4 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I'm bring this thread up again, now that the Giants have fallen to 1-5. Should the Giants make a move now, or let Eli ride out the season and them move on (either retire or be released)?

You’re bringing this up again because you like to bump your own threads. We covered this extensively elsewhere. He’s done. Start the grounds keeper for all I care. 

Still VERY happy we have Barkley. It’ll be nice to pair him with a top QB prospect next season. 

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I'd love to see that face for another couple years.  :roll:

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1 hour ago, BKLYNYG said:

You’re bringing this up again because you like to bump your own threads. We covered this extensively elsewhere. He’s done. Start the grounds keeper for all I care. 

Still VERY happy we have Barkley. It’ll be nice to pair him with a top QB prospect next season. 

Eli is officially out of excuses. It was worth a shot considering he had legit excuses last year.

Oh well... The Giants have some nice toys for the next guy (Herbert) to play with.

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1 hour ago, vincent_NJG said:

Eli is officially out of excuses. It was worth a shot considering he had legit excuses last year.

Oh well... The Giants have some nice toys for the next guy (Herbert) to play with.

Yup, they gave him one last chance. What can you do?  It's pretty common for teams to hold on to long time players a little longer than they should. I would have held on to Webb and given him a shot. They couldn't cut Eli since it would have resulted in a ton of dead money, but they can cut him next year and save $17.4M that can be used to fill holes on the OL. 

This will be another lost season but hopefully they end up in position to draft a QB high in round 1. 

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2 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

I'm honestly hoping he retires at the end of this year.  They have to play him the rest of the year because Webb is gone.  So let him play 16, we can draft the next guy in the draft this year.  I can't say the Giants made a mistake drafting Barkley, if we get a QB this year and you have Barkley to pair with that QB... I can't say that wasn't the right move.  Barkley is so damn good.

Because he's a fourth round pick and he's not ready.  Be realistic.   Had they kept Webb they could have put him in there.

Not ready for what? To lose?! Dude, it’s way beyond that now, they have to change ish up and try to get a couple of wins. If the kid gets his a** kicked, so be it, it’ll tell them how he handles adversity and whether he can play under pressure 

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47 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

Yup, they gave him one last chance. What can you do?  It's pretty common for teams to hold on to long time players a little longer than they should. I would have held on to Webb and given him a shot, but what can ya do. They couldn't cut Eli since it would have resulted in a ton of dead money, but they can cut him next year and save $17.4M that can be used to fill holes on the OL. 

This will be another lost season but hopefully they end up in position to draft a QB high in round 1. 

100% agree with this post.

11 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

Not ready for what? To lose?! Dude, it’s way beyond that now, they have to change ish up and try to get a couple of wins. If the kid gets his a** kicked, so be it, it’ll tell them how he handles adversity and whether he can play under pressure 

You can ruin a QB by putting them in before they are ready.  You want a guy like that to sit for a year or two at least before they see the field.  If you want to shake it up sign Webb off the Jets practice squad and see what he can do.  He's actually ready.  He's had his year. 

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