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Procus

***OFFICIAL Giants should have drafted a QB thread***

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Well this may be the most talked about QB class in years.  Mayfield, Darnold, Allen and Rosen have all played impressively this preseason and are drawing raves from their coaches, teammates and fans.

Meanwhile, the Giants drafted a running back whose hamstring is tweaked at the moment.  Me thinks this could be a defining moment for the franchise - in a negative way of course.

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Not sure if the OP is complaining or laughing 

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If Barkley turns out to be what everyone thinks he'll be, I think that was a good pick for them (ugh!). I think it was a mistake for the Browns not to take him, then build around him.

If he does what people think he'll do this year, he can 'prop' Eli up and they'll draft a QB next year or the year after that.

Idiot Browns! Can't they EVER do the right thing?

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Another preseason overreaction thread.

I'll bite though.

If any of the QBs (outside of Mayfield) become elite franchise QBs, and the Giants struggle to find a replacement for Eli, then yeah, a moment where everyone will look back to point and laugh at the Giants. We'll all see what happens. The Giants badly needed to build up their roster. Drafting a QB here would have been an acknowledgement that the Eli era was over and 2018 was a wash of a season considering that the oline was still a mess and no running game.

Instead, the Giants landed Saquon and Hernandez so if/when they get "their guy" he will have something of a supporting cast

Also, let's keep in mind that it's preseason. We've all seen guys crush it in the preseason only to ish the bed later. 

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11 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If Barkley turns out to be what everyone thinks he'll be, I think that was a good pick for them (ugh!). I think it was a mistake for the Browns not to take him, then build around him.

If he does what people think he'll do this year, he can 'prop' Eli up and they'll draft a QB next year or the year after that.

Idiot Browns! Can't they EVER do the right thing?

You could be right.  Darnold or Mayfield may have been there at #4.  Of course Rosen and Allen went later, and they are looking awfully good as well.

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13 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If Barkley turns out to be what everyone thinks he'll be, I think that was a good pick for them (ugh!). I think it was a mistake for the Browns not to take him, then build around him.

If he does what people think he'll do this year, he can 'prop' Eli up and they'll draft a QB next year or the year after that.

Idiot Browns! Can't they EVER do the right thing?

You don't build around a running back.

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55 minutes ago, Bored said:

You don't build around a running back.

You do if it's a 'special' running back. At least until you get a franchise QB, then you shift the draft focus to build around him. But if there's a 'once in an era' type RB on the board along with 'run of the mill' QB's, you take the RB and get a QB later.

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4 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

You do if it's a 'special' running back. At least until you get a franchise QB, then you shift the draft focus to build around him. But if there's a 'once in an era' type RB on the board along with 'run of the mill' QB's, you take the RB and get a QB later.

The questions then become whether Barkley is a once in an era back, and whether Darnold, Allen and/or Rosen will turn out to be franchise QBs.

The Cowboy model was to use the high pick on a RB, then plug in a QB drafted in a later round.  So far, that formula hasn't worked, and we haven't seen anything to date to indicate that will change.

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52 minutes ago, Procus said:

The questions then become whether Barkley is a once in an era back, and whether Darnold, Allen and/or Rosen will turn out to be franchise QBs.

The Cowboy model was to use the high pick on a RB, then plug in a QB drafted in a later round.  So far, that formula hasn't worked, and we haven't seen anything to date to indicate that will change.

I don't follow college football even a little bit, so I really can't say whether Barkley is or isn't 'that' back. Not until I've seen him play.

For the Cowboys, they go into every season and every offseason with a pretty big handicap, which prevents them from being successful...

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1 hour ago, Procus said:

The questions then become whether Barkley is a once in an era back, and whether Darnold, Allen and/or Rosen will turn out to be franchise QBs.

The Cowboy model was to use the high pick on a RB, then plug in a QB drafted in a later round.  So far, that formula hasn't worked, and we haven't seen anything to date to indicate that will change.

The correct formula is to use a later round pick on a QB. Then let him go. If he comes back then it is meant to be.

 

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Why use another pick for QB so soon? They already have Davis Webb waiting in the wings. :whistle:

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16 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

You do if it's a 'special' running back. At least until you get a franchise QB, then you shift the draft focus to build around him. But if there's a 'once in an era' type RB on the board along with 'run of the mill' QB's, you take the RB and get a QB later.

Which is absolutely fine and fair... But how much might they need to trade in order to move up to get a QB? Assuming that Barkley does "prop up" Eli and the team improves on last year. 

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17 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

You do if it's a 'special' running back. At least until you get a franchise QB, then you shift the draft focus to build around him. But if there's a 'once in an era' type RB on the board along with 'run of the mill' QB's, you take the RB and get a QB later.

When was the last time a team with a "special" running back won anything? Seems to me that the RB by committee that the Eagles had last season, or the Patriots always have, is more successfull.

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We'll see, too early to tell. But the Giants were in prime position to get a QB without giving up future assets. it's easier to get a RB than a QB.

To play devils advocate a bit... to me, the Giants are saying they are more in a win now mode than a win later. The NFL is most definitely a team sport, a great QB can't do it alone. The last league MVP to also win a superbowl in the same year was Kurt Warner back in 1999. There is no real formula to winning a superbowl, just that great QB play is going to make everything easier.

I just don't see them getting that type of play from Manning in this stage of his career, and the Giants team seems to have too many holes as is. I think that the pick itself can still turn out great with the Giants still being bad. I think it's possible that Barkley is a machine but they don't end up being contenders during his prime years. Kind of like with Peterson, and even Tomlinson to a degree.. although I'd say during a stretch the Chargers were a dominant team that choked when it mattered but that's a different topic.

 

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On 8/19/2018 at 2:08 AM, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If Barkley turns out to be what everyone thinks he'll be, I think that was a good pick for them (ugh!). I think it was a mistake for the Browns not to take him, then build around him.

 

I agree, from my perspective, the Browns could have had Barkley and Mayfield.

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32 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

I agree, from my perspective, the Browns could have had Barkley and Mayfield.

They probably could have. And had a stud RB to take pressure off a young QB while he learned on the job.

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On 8/19/2018 at 5:01 PM, VaBeach_Eagle said:

You do if it's a 'special' running back. At least until you get a franchise QB, then you shift the draft focus to build around him. But if there's a 'once in an era' type RB on the board along with 'run of the mill' QB's, you take the RB and get a QB later.

Detroit Lions agree wholeheartedly.

Mike Ditka agrees wholeheartedly (re: his stint in NO)

Indianapolis Colt Marshall Faulk says hi.

I'm not sure there are any successful teams that have decided to build their teams around a RB in recent memory.  Their careers are too short, and quite frankly, you can find them in later rounds.

The NYG will regret passing on a QB...unless they know Eli's wrapping it up and believe they could be in for another loser of a season...which they very well could.  

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20 minutes ago, Vee said:

The NYG will regret passing on a QB...unless they know Eli's wrapping it up and believe they could be in for another loser of a season...which they very well could.  

The giants will be able to make a run at a top QB again in the future. I don't think they'll be able to make a run at a generational talent at RB. Think the Rams.. went and got the top RB in the draft. Then also went and got a top QB. Now they are laughing and will be contending for superbowls for the forseeable future.

The key though will be as you said. If they build around him they won't go anywhere. They need to make him a secondary piece to a great QB.

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5 minutes ago, Northern Green Wings said:

The giants will be able to make a run at a top QB again in the future. I don't think they'll be able to make a run at a generational talent at RB. Think the Rams.. went and got the top RB in the draft. Then also went and got a top QB. Now they are laughing and will be contending for superbowls for the forseeable future.

The key though will be as you said. If they build around him they won't go anywhere. They need to make him a secondary piece to a great QB.

They'll never be a good QB prospect available in the first round of the draft ever again. We're dooomed. 

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3 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

They'll never be a good QB prospect available in the first round of the draft ever again. We're dooomed. 

Ideally... yes that's what happens.

Realistically though just because you pick high doesn't mean that QB will turn out well. Trubisky has looked like hot garbage. Mahomes has been up and down. The best from last years draft was Watson taken with the 12th pick. Only way Giants never get a shot at a top QB in the near future is if Barkley is too good that it puts them in that mediocrity level of the draft picks, where they just barely miss the playoffs and are in the late teens. But honestly I expect them to finish with a 5-11 to 7-9 record this season. Add in that almost every team with a QB issue went and got their guy last season as well.. there will QBs falling.

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10 minutes ago, Northern Green Wings said:

Ideally... yes that's what happens.

Realistically though just because you pick high doesn't mean that QB will turn out well. Trubisky has looked like hot garbage. Mahomes has been up and down. The best from last years draft was Watson taken with the 12th pick. Only way Giants never get a shot at a top QB in the near future is if Barkley is too good that it puts them in that mediocrity level of the draft picks, where they just barely miss the playoffs and are in the late teens. But honestly I expect them to finish with a 5-11 to 7-9 record this season. Add in that almost every team with a QB issue went and got their guy last season as well.. there will QBs falling.

Exactly. Also, now with a presumably much improved roster(especially oline) a young new QB won't be asked to carry the load. 

Pat Shurmur and co. Can really get a good look at Webb/Lauletta as well as everyone in the 2019 draft. My money is on Drew Lock or Justin Herbert. 

Either way, like you said, the bulk of the teams that needed a QB, went out and got them already. If the Giants end up with a top 15 selection, they'll be in position to grab their man if they want to.

 

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4 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Exactly. Also, now with a presumably much improved roster(especially oline) a young new QB won't be asked to carry the load. 

Pat Shurmur and co. Can really get a good look at Webb/Lauletta as well as everyone in the 2019 draft. My money is on Drew Lock or Justin Herbert. 

Either way, like you said, the bulk of the teams that needed a QB, went out and got them already. If the Giants end up with a top 15 selection, they'll be in position to grab their man if they want to.

 

It's sad for me as an Eagles fan but true. Looking around the NFL:

AFC East: Dolphins and Patriots are in the market. Patriots however won't have a high pick to use.

AFC North: Steelers and Bengals. Browns/Ravens got their guy recently. Steelers won't have a high pick.

AFC South: Jaguars should but who knows. I also think they will finish with a good record again taking them out of the running.

AFC West: Chargers and Broncos. These two teams, to me, would be the biggest competition in getting a QB ahead of the Giants.

NFC East: Just the Giants. Unless Dak completely flops I don't see Dallas moving for one. I don't see the Redskins giving up on Smith yet

NFC North: No one

NFC South: Saints maybe to replace Brees. Again I see this as a team who will have a good record, so they aren't competing for a draft slot against the Giants.

NFC West: No one

So of all the teams, only the Bengals/Broncos/Chargers have a legit shot of taking a QB before wherever the Giants pick is. Patriots/Steelers/Jaguars/Saints I think will all finish with better records than the Giants. They will get a chance at a QB next draft for sure.

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2 minutes ago, Northern Green Wings said:

It's sad for me as an Eagles fan but true. Looking around the NFL:

AFC East: Dolphins and Patriots are in the market. Patriots however won't have a high pick to use.

AFC North: Steelers and Bengals. Browns/Ravens got their guy recently. Steelers won't have a high pick.

AFC South: Jaguars should but who knows. I also think they will finish with a good record again taking them out of the running.

AFC West: Chargers and Broncos. These two teams, to me, would be the biggest competition in getting a QB ahead of the Giants.

NFC East: Just the Giants. Unless Dak completely flops I don't see Dallas moving for one. I don't see the Redskins giving up on Smith yet

NFC North: No one

NFC South: Saints maybe to replace Brees. Again I see this as a team who will have a good record, so they aren't competing for a draft slot against the Giants.

NFC West: No one

So of all the teams, only the Bengals/Broncos/Chargers have a legit shot of taking a QB before wherever the Giants pick is. Patriots/Steelers/Jaguars/Saints I think will all finish with better records than the Giants. They will get a chance at a QB next draft for sure.

If I'm not mistaken, didn't the Saints trade away their 2019 first to move up for Davenport? 

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