Sign in to follow this  
SBorBust

Dak vs. Wentz

Recommended Posts

11 hours ago, boogyman said:

Dak Prescott College Scouting Report:

"Hyper aware of pressure around him and lacks awareness to slide and find temporary shelter to make throw. Concern over pressure too often trumps ability to get through progressions. Must speed up the pace of his reads. Footwork is a mess. Slight stride onto stiff upper leg with little weight shift. Restricted follow through and too often tries to muscle throws with upper body. Throws to target rather than leading or throwing them open on short/intermediate throws. Too respectful of underneath coverage and must be more willing to challenge the defense. Needs to improve anticipation."

 

Pretty much spot on. He is basically exactly the same now as he was 3 years ago.

Nope!  He now develops the "jump-pass" and has added it to his repertoire.  :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, cowboy30 said:

Dak Presgoat!! I'm just happy we grabbed this guy in the 4th round instead of almost trading up to get Paxton Lynch in the 1st round.

The OL has been pretty bad too, but no excuse for Dak. He's just been bad.

Where to begin with that team?  I think you're right to point the biggest finger at the OL, but Linehan's system isn't looking too good and there's not much chemistry between Dak and the new receiving corps.  He's played bad, and I do think Carson's way better, but I don't think Dak's finished.  The problem is Dallas as an organization.  May Jerry Jones live a thousand years.

Edited by Thunderfarts
mispelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SBorBust said:

This makes total sense. Tebow is the only accurate modern day Prescott comp.

But at least Tebow had a gimmick (for lack of a better word), Tebowing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, boogyman said:

I'm not talking about numbers. He is good at a few things. The stuff he was bad at as a rookie he is still bad at. 

 

It all comes down to the numbers, if I asked for evidence that Dak was playing poorly you’d give me numbers.

The bottom line to me is He somehow had 20td’s, 4 turnovers last year....and Dallas was 3rd in points...like .06 per game behind Philly....if they can get the OL back to what it was last year and upgrade the weapons, he can do that again, and that’s enough...

that said, in the draft if there is a guy they think can be elite, i’d take him but I sure as hell would want a new coach too.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

It all comes down to the numbers, if I asked for evidence that Dak was playing poorly you’d give me numbers.

The bottom line to me is He somehow had 20td’s, 4 turnovers last year....and Dallas was 3rd in points...like .06 per game behind Philly....if they can get the OL back to what it was last year and upgrade the weapons, he can do that again, and that’s enough...

that said, in the draft if there is a guy they think can be elite, i’d take him but I sure as hell would want a new coach too.

 

Fair enough. You can read box scores, I'll watch guys actually play football. If the first guy is covered he rarely completes a pass to the next guy. And if he does it's a dink or dunk. He seems to me to have trouble throwing downfield unless the pocket is perfectly clean. He wont attempt a throw downfield or even midrange unless the receiver is well clear of a defender. I have seen Dallas receivers come out of breaks open but he doesnt attempt the throw because he doesnt see it quickly enough. I see 8 man boxes on first down and he wont change the play to take advantage.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, boogyman said:

Fair enough. You can read box scores, I'll watch guys actually play football. If the first guy is covered he rarely completes a pass to the next guy. And if he does it's a dink or dunk. He seems to me to have trouble throwing downfield unless the pocket is perfectly clean. He wont attempt a throw downfield or even midrange unless the receiver is well clear of a defender. I have seen Dallas receivers come out of breaks open but he doesnt attempt the throw because he doesnt see it quickly enough. I see 8 man boxes on first down and he wont change the play to take advantage.

 

 

I agree with all of your observations. Part of his problem is he doesn’t take the chances you need to take sometimes, under pressure his mechanics get out of wack more than they should....but you don’t put up like 48 td’s and 8 ints over your first season and a half by mistake.

as far as not changing the play from at the line, .that’s something armchair coaches like us have no way of knowing how much he does or doesn’t do...but he’s been criticized by Dallas beat writers who are actually in the knownfor doing it too much sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

I agree with all of your observations. Part of his problem is he doesn’t take the chances you need to take sometimes, under pressure his mechanics get out of wack more than they should....but you don’t put up like 48 td’s and 8 ints over your first season and a half by mistake.

as far as not changing the play from at the line, .that’s something armchair coaches like us have no way of knowing how much he does or doesn’t do...but he’s been criticized by Dallas beat writers who are actually in the knownfor doing it too much sometimes.

Ok so he sees a loaded box and changes the play to a run play. That makes more sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2018 at 6:06 PM, Stephen1 said:

I agree with all of your observations. Part of his problem is he doesn’t take the chances you need to take sometimes, under pressure his mechanics get out of wack more than they should....but you don’t put up like 48 td’s and 8 ints over your first season and a half by mistake.

as far as not changing the play from at the line, .that’s something armchair coaches like us have no way of knowing how much he does or doesn’t do...but he’s been criticized by Dallas beat writers who are actually in the knownfor doing it too much sometimes.

Where are u getting these numbers? He had more than 4 ints last year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, bobbywizdum said:

Where are u getting these numbers? He had more than 4 ints last year. 

He said first season and a half, and he meant to say 40 TD’s and 8 int’s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2018 at 6:06 PM, Stephen1 said:

I agree with all of your observations. Part of his problem is he doesn’t take the chances you need to take sometimes, under pressure his mechanics get out of wack more than they should....but you don’t put up like 48 td’s and 8 ints over your first season and a half by mistake.

as far as not changing the play from at the line, .that’s something armchair coaches like us have no way of knowing how much he does or doesn’t do...but he’s been criticized by Dallas beat writers who are actually in the knownfor doing it too much sometimes.

Daks biggest problem is he is his own worst enemy.  Daks ego gets in the way big time , I said it last year .  You could see the difference from year one into 2 . He is a young man , no one could blame him after that success and spotlighting. The Cowboys Staff is to blame for much of it as well ... they should of stepped in and helped him cool his jets . But Jerry the salesman loves that crap . Then it just got worse and worse .... more endorsements, more commercials billboards ect.... When he really should of been focusing on the game . Dallas is prob worst place for him to be because of it.  You dont see many if any at all  young QBs doing that crap ... I can think of one in recent history and its RG3  , look how that turned out.  Dak wont win you a Superbowl , but you dam sure could win one with him. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One more not so fun fact...Dak Prescott has thrown for under 200 yards in 5 straight games, the longest streak by a Cowboys QB since Quincy Carter (5 straight) in 2003. (Careen Falcone)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Gregg said:

One more not so fun fact...Dak Prescott has thrown for under 200 yards in 5 straight games, the longest streak by a Cowboys QB since Quincy Carter (5 straight) in 2003. (Careen Falcone)

 

FB_IMG_1537952719388.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can we close this thread and start a Goff vs Wentz? These 2 guys are clearly the future in the NFC and about to take over when Brees and Rodgers go away. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:06 PM, Stephen1 said:

I agree with all of your observations. Part of his problem is he doesn’t take the chances you need to take sometimes, under pressure his mechanics get out of wack more than they should....but you don’t put up like 48 td’s and 8 ints over your first season and a half by mistake.

as far as not changing the play from at the line, .that’s something armchair coaches like us have no way of knowing how much he does or doesn’t do...but he’s been criticized by Dallas beat writers who are actually in the knownfor doing it too much sometimes.

To Heavyweightchamp - always respect your posts. Balanced and civil.

Observation:

In Prescott's rookie season, based on personal observation it always seemed to me that he was passing from a clean pocket, with no pressure, to a wide open receiver, 5-10 yards downfield with an unobstructed passing lane. The hyperbole bestowed by commentators and analysts about his performances was most annoying because it lacked the obvious common sense observation that Prescott was only making simple throws that most any competent NFL QB could make. The fist time he faced the Eagles (Sunday or Monday night game in Dallas), Schwartz blitzed him for three quarters and he became wildly inaccurate (validating my hypothesis in that instance). As I recall the Eagles were up by 10 points going into the fourth quarter when Peterson went conservative. In the fourth quarter they went conservative and stopped blitzing on defense allowing Prescott to relax and make easy throws. Needless to say, Cowboys came back and won. It was clearly obvious to anyone paying attention that Prescott had difficulty dealing with a pass rush. Consistent with your comments, and the Prescott debate on the Cowboys Fan Zone his supporting cast began to deteriorate around mid-season 2017 at which point opponents started applying a consistent pass rush and Prescott was required to execute a more precision passing game. The easy, unobstructed throws substantially disappeared. From that point forward he has floundered. In reality, he didn't regress but rather revealed what he really was, and is, as an NFL QB. What he is now, IS what he really IS. To be fair, the Cowboys Oline is no longer stout, his receivers are pedestrian and he has no credible weapon at TE. But Prescott does not seem to have the skill to improve the players around him.

Bottom line of this rant is not about Prescott specifically but rather the false hype that surrounded him. There was a media desire to craft a narrative anointing the next great Cowboys QB based on willfully ignoring what seemed obvious from the "eye test", at least to this observer.                    Just had to vent my thoughts. FWIW

P.S.: BTW I lived in Havertown myself for several years from the late 1970's to the mid 1980's. My parents lived there till 2003. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing I noticed rewatching the Panther game and if I am correct it's common from the Cowboy offense. A lot of times QB will make a throw to an open part of the field where he knows the receiver is going to be. When the throw happens the receiver may have a guy on him, but because the QB read the coverage he knows the guy will be open. Both Foles and Wentz do this a lot on TE seam throws. The TE may have a linebacker on him when the throw is initially made, but the QB knows he is going to "pass him off" and throws the ball over the covering backers shoulder and it's a completion. Same for the receivers in a cover 2 type of look. When the receiver is just running by the corner the throw if made just over or past the defender as he is passing him off to the DB over the top. I rarely see throws of this type in the Cowboy offense. Is it a limitation of Dak or are they just not coached to make throws of this type?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2018 at 6:06 PM, Stephen1 said:

I agree with all of your observations. Part of his problem is he doesn’t take the chances you need to take sometimes, under pressure his mechanics get out of wack more than they should....but you don’t put up like 48 td’s and 8 ints over your first season and a half by mistake.

as far as not changing the play from at the line, .that’s something armchair coaches like us have no way of knowing how much he does or doesn’t do...but he’s been criticized by Dallas beat writers who are actually in the knownfor doing it too much sometimes.

The issue comes down to at some point a decision has to be made on dak.  At 700k salary...sure, plenty of money to spread around to oline and weapons and rb...at 20+ million...not so much.

IMO if a qb is going to get a second contract, I want him to showcase some elite ability, if not...I'm letting him go and drafting another.  I'm not gonna try fielding a team capable of making up for andy dalton's deficiencies for 10 years.

I also think he's about to crack.  He needs like 2-3 really good games right now just to save himself from spiraling.  Cole Beasley and Hurns are already making comments about how they are open.  The body language of the players just doesn't look very good and there just seems to be a great deal of negativity surrounding that offense.  Defense looks totally different, they play with energy and some excitement and they look like they have fun.  Polar opposite of the offense.

Some of what has happened could be chalked up to the fact dallas never expected Dak to become the starter his rookie year and they were somewhat hamstrung by Romo's dead money.  But his handling has been a case study in what not to do to a young qb.  He has absolutely nobody in his qb room to lean on for support with rookie backups and a rookie qb coach.  The cowboys never should have let Dak just pick his buddy for his qb coach, sometimes the best boss is the one you don't always get along with, the ones that will criticize you and be hard on you.  The cowboys have changed around so much of his receiving group in dak's 3rd year (witten was another unexpected thing to pop up, but he is old, and dallas probably should've been looking for a replacement earlier, someone witten could help mentor).  It's expected that he'll require an adjustment period to get on the same page with Hurns, thompson, tavon, gallup and his tes.  But then the cowboys also didn't give dak many reps in preseason with those guys.

Dak's skillset is kinda weird to me.  A lot of athletic qbs like cam and Vick have absolute cannon arms..dak does not, I think his arm strength is below average.  So when he uses his athleticism to get out of the pocket and he doesn't have time to reset his feet he has a hard time making throws when he's off platform and has to rely on just arm.  I've seen him be accurate with a short passing attack but he also doesn't have a really fast release like Brady, Jimmy G, brees and doesn't anticipate as well they do.  So he can be accurate passing short but doesn't have a quick release and doesn't process quickly.  When he's out of the pocket using his athleticism his mechanics get wonky and he doesn't have the arm strength to throw off platform.  With a clean pocket and time and weapons and a good coach he can make plays...but so can Sam Bradford and probably 90% of the nfl qbs.  Fitzpatrick with a clean pocket and good weapons is throwing for 400 yards a game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, mogwi411 said:

The issue comes down to at some point a decision has to be made on dak.  At 700k salary...sure, plenty of money to spread around to oline and weapons and rb...at 20+ million...not so much.

IMO if a qb is going to get a second contract, I want him to showcase some elite ability, if not...I'm letting him go and drafting another.  I'm not gonna try fielding a team capable of making up for andy dalton's deficiencies for 10 years.

I also think he's about to crack.  He needs like 2-3 really good games right now just to save himself from spiraling.  Cole Beasley and Hurns are already making comments about how they are open.  The body language of the players just doesn't look very good and there just seems to be a great deal of negativity surrounding that offense.  Defense looks totally different, they play with energy and some excitement and they look like they have fun.  Polar opposite of the offense.

Some of what has happened could be chalked up to the fact dallas never expected Dak to become the starter his rookie year and they were somewhat hamstrung by Romo's dead money.  But his handling has been a case study in what not to do to a young qb.  He has absolutely nobody in his qb room to lean on for support with rookie backups and a rookie qb coach.  The cowboys never should have let Dak just pick his buddy for his qb coach, sometimes the best boss is the one you don't always get along with, the ones that will criticize you and be hard on you.  The cowboys have changed around so much of his receiving group in dak's 3rd year (witten was another unexpected thing to pop up, but he is old, and dallas probably should've been looking for a replacement earlier, someone witten could help mentor).  It's expected that he'll require an adjustment period to get on the same page with Hurns, thompson, tavon, gallup and his tes.  But then the cowboys also didn't give dak many reps in preseason with those guys.

Dak's skillset is kinda weird to me.  A lot of athletic qbs like cam and Vick have absolute cannon arms..dak does not, I think his arm strength is below average.  So when he uses his athleticism to get out of the pocket and he doesn't have time to reset his feet he has a hard time making throws when he's off platform and has to rely on just arm.  I've seen him be accurate with a short passing attack but he also doesn't have a really fast release like Brady, Jimmy G, brees and doesn't anticipate as well they do.  So he can be accurate passing short but doesn't have a quick release and doesn't process quickly.  When he's out of the pocket using his athleticism his mechanics get wonky and he doesn't have the arm strength to throw off platform.  With a clean pocket and time and weapons and a good coach he can make plays...but so can Sam Bradford and probably 90% of the nfl qbs.  Fitzpatrick with a clean pocket and good weapons is throwing for 400 yards a game.

I agree you can get from a lot of QBs what you get from Dak

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this