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Uscg-Green

Any more debate on ELI being HOF'er

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He is just... so.... boring.   He might be the most boring QB to ever watch play.  Not entertaining in the least.  He has had some amazing WRs around him for much of his career to help make him look good.  I agree with the ring of honor but not HOF.  However... how many SB MVP QBs that are eligible are not in the hof? 

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10 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Do you think the Giants would have had a better W-L record, and more post season success, if they'd kept Rivers rather than trading for Manning?

I don’t know, probably not. The first half of their careers Rivers had more talent around him and didn’t do sheet with it. 

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5 minutes ago, Captain F said:

He is just... so.... boring.   He might be the most boring QB to ever watch play.  Not entertaining in the least.  He has had some amazing WRs around him for much of his career to help make him look good.  I agree with the ring of honor but not HOF.  However... how many SB MVP QBs that are eligible are not in the hof? 

I agree, which is why I’m so puzzled by Eagles fans on this board that obsess over him. I mean, the only Giants fan that consistently defends him is foos. It’s like you guys are arguing with yourselves. 

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10 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Just curious as to the comparison, so I looked it up. Eli would obviously have larger numbers with regard to yards and such, so I'm just looking at the averages and the passer rating.

Eli Manning for his career (to date):

60.1% TD Rate 4.5% INT Rate 3% 83.7 Passer Rating

Win-loss percentage: .509

Nick Foles:

60.4% TD Rate 4.2% INT Rate 2% 87.0 Passer Rating

Win-loss percentage: .561

Wow that's an eye opener right there. 

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41 minutes ago, Uscg-Green said:

Wow that's an eye opener right there. 

Yes definitely a real eye opener...that someone would actually compare averages of someone with 40 starts vs someone with 220. ?

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Since the HOF is now the Hall of Very Good, he'll more than likely get in, even though I personally dont think he should. The bar is set pretty low now

To me, the HOF always represented the best of the best. With the way the game has changed so much over the years, and with many of those changes not for the better, guys can pile up stats a hell of a lot easier than those who came before them, and people heap praise all over them.

Sure, Eli has lots of stats that are top 10 all time, but anyone who has watched him knows that he has never looked like a top ten all time QB. The eyes dont lie, and if stats were never kept, and guys were voted into the HOF based purely on the eyeball test, Eli wouldn't have a shot in hell.

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2 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

Yes definitely a real eye opener...that someone would actually compare averages of someone with 40 starts vs someone with 220. ?

It took Foles 40 starts to win a superbowl, Manning needed 220 to win to. Foles superbowl winning rate is like 275% better.

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4 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

Yes definitely a real eye opener...that someone would actually compare averages of someone with 40 starts vs someone with 220. ?

I meant the fact that Elis stats are so mediocre but ok. Hes literally a .500 QB

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I dunno man.  He's one of NFL history's greater compilers and he has 2 SB wins.  But he was considered top 5 at his position like one season in his entire career and his team scored 19 pts/game in those SB's.  Personally, I think this is one of those things where he gets in for being a New York player.  I don't think Joe Flacco is another defensive led SB ring away from getting into the HoF.

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On 10/13/2018 at 4:57 AM, Gmen4ever said:

Since the HOF is now the Hall of Very Good, he'll more than likely get in, even though I personally dont think he should. The bar is set pretty low now.

Huh??? How is the bar set low?

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1 hour ago, E v 2.0 said:

Huh??? How is the bar set low?

Do you believe that the 5-7 guys that get in every year are all worthy of being inducted among the best of all time? Troy Aikman? Joe Namath? Jerome Bettis? 

Those are just the ones off the top of my head. They have to put guys in that weren’t great because if they didn’t, they’d have no one to induct, or at least no one from recent times that’s eligible . Ergo, the bar has been lowered 

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2 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

Do you believe that the 5-7 guys that get in every year are all worthy of being inducted among the best of all time? Troy Aikman? Joe Namath? Jerome Bettis? 

Those are just the ones off the top of my head. They have to put guys in that weren’t great because if they didn’t, they’d have no one to induct, or at least no one from recent times that’s eligible . Ergo, the bar has been lowered 

Well I mean none of those guys are very recent. I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. 

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Eli may not be the best QB of his generation - however - quarterbacking his team to 2 Super Bowl wins and the iron man streak of starts should put him in.  He's no first ballot HOFer, but give the guy his due:  he should get in at some point.  I don't like him, but I can surely respect what he's done.  

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3 minutes ago, Plache said:

Eli may not be the best QB of his generation - however - quarterbacking his team to 2 Super Bowl wins and the iron man streak of starts should put him in.  He's no first ballot HOFer, but give the guy his due:  he should get in at some point.  I don't like him, but I can surely respect what he's done.  

I personally think if you were not a top player at your position you cant be a hall of famer. There was always at least 3 or 4 QBs better than him.

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1 hour ago, Gmen4ever said:

Joe Namath?

Years ago (in the late 90's), I read an article that said that part of the merger agreement was that the AFL's stars, would be inducted into the Hall of Fame and that's why Namath got in.

I've searched for the article in recent years and haven't found it. So I don't know if it's true or not. If it is, that would certainly explain his induction.

Another player who is in, who I don't believe would get in if not for Super Bowls, is Lynn Swann.

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3 hours ago, boogyman said:

I personally think if you were not a top player at your position you cant be a hall of famer. There was always at least 3 or 4 QBs better than him.

Like Eli or not, hate or love the Giants you have to admit Eli is one of the more unique cases of all time. Never a top 3 QB. Limited athleticism. Lots of losses and lots of blunders throughout his career. But he's compiled tons of stats, has 2 SB victories against the best QB and team of our generation (maybe all time) and is always available (which for a QB is rare and important). It will be an interesting debate for sure. 

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20 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

Like Eli or not, hate or love the Giants you have to admit Eli is one of the more unique cases of all time. Never a top 3 QB. Limited athleticism. Lots of losses and lots blunders throughout his career. But he's compiled tons of stats, has 2 SB victories against the best QB and team of our generation (maybe all time) and is always available (which for a QB is rare and important). It will be an interesting debate for sure. 

I like Eli. I think he was a really good player. But like you just said, never a top QB...that means no HOF in my eyes. I'd say that about any player. If you were not a top guy at your position for at least a couple years you are not HOF in my eyes. 

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22 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

Like Eli or not, hate or love the Giants you have to admit Eli is one of the more unique cases of all time. Never a top 3 QB. Limited athleticism. Lots of losses and lots blunders throughout his career. But he's compiled tons of stats, has 2 SB victories against the best QB and team of our generation (maybe all time) and is always available (which for a QB is rare and important). It will be an interesting debate for sure. 

Looking at some guys that are in, he should be in, but looking at some guys that are not in, he shouldn’t be in.

Very hard to find him a group that he belongs in.

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If Eli's career was in Houston or Tennessee with the exact same stats, wins-losses and Super Bowl record and everything exactly the same, would he be seriously considered for the hall of fame or does being in the New York market play a factor?

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47 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Looking at some guys that are in, he should be in, but looking at some guys that are not in, he shouldn’t be in.

Very hard to find him a group that he belongs in.

Which is kind of ironic, seeing as how his entire NFL career has been loaded with nothing but ups and downs, with very little consistency at all. Good one week, terrible the next. The guy had no middle ground, it was either good or bad, and from game to game.....hell, sometimes quarter to quarter, you never, ever knew which guy was gonna show up. It’s only fitting that people cant agree whether or not he belongs in the HOF because nobody can figure him out to this day.

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57 minutes ago, boogyman said:

I like Eli. I think he was a really good player. But like you just said, never a top QB...that means no HOF in my eyes. I'd say that about any player. If you were not a top guy at your position for at least a couple years you are not HOF in my eyes. 

Yup I agree. 

55 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Looking at some guys that are in, he should be in, but looking at some guys that are not in, he shouldn’t be in.

Very hard to find him a group that he belongs in.

He’s an odd case on and off the field. No doubt. 

51 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If Eli's career was in Houston or Tennessee with the exact same stats, wins-losses and Super Bowl record and everything exactly the same, would he be seriously considered for the hall of fame or does being in the New York market play a factor?

It probably helps sometimes and hurts other times. Every good and bad game he has is magnified. East Coast media and fans are vicious. 

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1 hour ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

If Eli's career was in Houston or Tennessee with the exact same stats, wins-losses and Super Bowl record and everything exactly the same, would he be seriously considered for the hall of fame or does being in the New York market play a factor?

Playing in NYC is a huge boost to his chances. 

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1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

Playing in NYC is a huge boost to his chances. 

It shouldn't be. It should actually hurt his chances.

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People bring up his inflated stats .... but ignore what a joke the NFL has become in protecting QBs and WRs in Elis Era ... which obviously helped him to a long long career. How many of these prissy QBs  would last in the 80s / early 90s football ?  

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