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Uscg-Green

Any more debate on ELI being HOF'er

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Eli is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP that ranks sixth all-time in passing yards and seventh all-time in passing TDs. His 210 consecutive start streak was second to only Brett Favre. There are only four other QBs to have multiple Super Bowl MVPs. All four are in the Hall of Fame. I may not think he is a top 10 all-time QB but I would be rather surprised if he doesn't end up in the Hall too.

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His career warrants he HOF.   He's top 7 all time in most important categories.  One bad game on Thursday night at the end of his career (because I don't think he'll be in the NFL next year) doesn't change that. 

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3 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

His career warrants he HOF.   He's top 7 all time in most important categories.  One bad game on Thursday night at the end of his career (because I don't think he'll be in the NFL next year) doesn't change that. 

He is barely a .500 QB. Good chance he retires with a losing record at the rate they are playing.

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7 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Coin flip. Based on compiled stats and rings he's probably in but I wouldn't vote him in.

I think he belongs in the Giants ring of honor, but not in the HOF. Not enough consistency. 

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4 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

I think he belongs in the Giants ring of honor, but not in the HOF. Not enough consistency. 

Agreed. He's also been so lousy lately, while watching the game, my stepfather actually said "I'm sick of this guy! We've never had a real winning season with him!"

He's been so bad, my stepdad forgot he had 2 rings.

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6 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Agreed. He's also been so lousy lately, while watching the game, my stepfather actually said "I'm sick of this guy! We've never had a real winning season with him!"

He's been so bad, my stepdad forgot he had 2 rings.

That's a shame. We've had a bunch of wining seasons, but even during the good years he was never really a smooth operator out there. His lack of athleticism makes everything look difficult. 

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52 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Agreed. He's also been so lousy lately, while watching the game, my stepfather actually said "I'm sick of this guy! We've never had a real winning season with him!"

He's been so bad, my stepdad forgot he had 2 rings.

I think last night was the first time he looked really bad to me.  But he looked really bad last night, however he would not be the first player to ever go to the HOF with a losing record.  And there are many HOF QB's who got in because of super bowls who's stats are not nearly as good as Eli's.  He deserves his place.  Whatever happens now, or has happened in the past few years doesn't erase what he did from 2004-2011.  Personally, I will always look back on his time and wonder what might have been had they actually improved the OL and made it a priority over his career.  This is what NE has done, this is what the Saints have done.  This is what teams with pocket QB's have to do.  The Giants didn't.  simple as that.  If our next QB is a pocket QB, I hope to god they have learned their lesson.

Example : Troy Aikman.  Stats were average, got in on super bowls.  In his last year he tossed 5 int's in a game against the Giants and looked like he couldn't start for a college team.  He's in the HOF.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Happyfoosball said:

I think last night was the first time he looked really bad to me.  But he looked really bad last night, however he would not be the first player to ever go to the HOF with a losing record.  And there are many HOF QB's who got in because of super bowls who's stats are not nearly as good as Eli's.  He deserves his place.  Whatever happens now, or has happened in the past few years doesn't erase what he did from 2004-2011.  Personally, I will always look back on his time and wonder what might have been had they actually improved the OL and made it a priority over his career.  This is what NE has done, this is what the Saints have done.  This is what teams with pocket QB's have to do.  The Giants didn't.  simple as that.  If our next QB is a pocket QB, I hope to god they have learned their lesson.

Example : Troy Aikman.  Stats were average, got in on super bowls.  In his last year he tossed 5 int's in a game against the Giants and looked like he couldn't start for a college team.  He's in the HOF.

 

 

you really going to compare 90s QBs  to todays " 2ks" ?  Troys days they didnt have all that BS flag BS they have today .  They didnt have all the protection for even the WRs back then.   You cant compare anything pre 2000s  and todays QBs   

 

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Eli Manning is this era's Joe Namath (on the field):

- Namath won one improbable Super Bowl (III). He had some good, Pro Bowl seasons early in his career (5x Pro Bowl, 1x All-Pro), but he was mostly mediocre and it looked like he couldn't do anything at all near the end of it. His career record is 62-63-4. He's in the Hall of Fame.
- Eli beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl (the first one was the undefeated Patriots season). 4x Pro Bowl QB. His career record is currently 112-108.

He has no chance at the Hall of Fame without the Super Bowl wins and Super Bowl MVP trophies. With them, there's a decent chance.

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He's in. The SB wins and start streak (which is pretty impressive actually) gaurantee it.

Whatever his numbers last night, he lit up the Eagles SB team twice.

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1 hour ago, NE.Jon said:

you really going to compare 90s QBs  to todays " 2ks" ?  Troys days they didnt have all that BS flag BS they have today .  They didnt have all the protection for even the WRs back then.   You cant compare anything pre 2000s  and todays QBs   

 

Uh why do you assume I  was.  Aikman's numbers are not HOF numbers when compared to his peers.  He never threw for 4,000 yards, he barely hit 30,000 for his career,  Phil Simms for example who played in a more difficult era then Troy put up career numbers that are as good or better and isn't in the HOF. 

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We can't take the nadir of a QB's career and judge his HoF eligibility on that. It has to be looked at on balance, the good and the bad, the highs and lows.

We did that on another Eli-related thread a few months ago.

A brief summary of what I think are his Pros and Cons for HoF consideration:

Pros:

2 SB wins, both over a QB would is arguably the best ever (it's not as if he beat Trent Difler)

Durability

Compiled some nice stats, including 53,000 plus passing yards

Four time Pro Bowl Selection

8-4 Playoff Record

Cons:

Threw a lot of INT's (never has had a full season with single-digit INTs; lowest full-season was 10, threw 20+ three times, including 27 in 2013)

Had 5 seasons completing less than 60% of passes

Won the SB with 10-6, 9-7 teams that got hot at the right time

Not exactly a compelling personality

 

He does have some HoF credentials, to be sure. That playoff record is quite good, but remove the two 4-0 runs and he's 0-4 in other playoff seasons.

 

In regard to stats, Joe Namath is often mentioned as getting into the Hall despite less than gaudy stats. However, he changed the landscape of pro football in at least two key respects (his being drafted by the upstart AFL and the SB III win), not to mention his outsized personality. It is, after all, the Hall of Fame, and he certainly is famous.

 

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5 hours ago, boogyman said:

He is barely a .500 QB. Good chance he retires with a losing record at the rate they are playing.

112-108-0 4582/7626 60.1% 83.7 Passer Rating

He'll end this season below .500 for his career. So if this is it for him, that's that.

Should he be in the Hall of Fame? I don't think that he should if they're going on his career as a whole. That's not to take away from him for his two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVP's. That's a great achievement that not many QBs will ever earn.

But his career as a whole, he's an average QB.

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6 hours ago, jfluke said:

Whatever his numbers last night, he lit up the Eagles SB team twice

And lost. What's Elis record all time against Eagles? I believe its 10-20

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51 minutes ago, Uscg-Green said:

And lost. What's Elis record all time against Eagles? I believe its 10-20

10-19. 0-2 in the playoffs.

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55 minutes ago, Uscg-Green said:

Nick Foles had an outstanding Playoff run and was Super Bowl MVP. Does he get considered? Lol no.

Just curious as to the comparison, so I looked it up. Eli would obviously have larger numbers with regard to yards and such, so I'm just looking at the averages and the passer rating.

Eli Manning for his career (to date):

60.1% TD Rate 4.5% INT Rate 3% 83.7 Passer Rating

Win-loss percentage: .509

Nick Foles:

60.4% TD Rate 4.2% INT Rate 2% 87.0 Passer Rating

Win-loss percentage: .561

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10 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

I think he belongs in the Giants ring of honor, but not in the HOF. Not enough consistency. 

This

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10 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

I think he belongs in the Giants ring of honor, but not in the HOF. Not enough consistency. 

Do you think the Giants would have had a better W-L record, and more post season success, if they'd kept Rivers rather than trading for Manning?

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