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Br3

The New York Giants are the new Cleveland Browns

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42 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

 Might as well sign Chad Kelly at this point

It’s hilarious, it really is. I mean, the kid has a possible shot to be a starting NFL QB, at least for a short time, and he pulls this ish. They’re doomed, and it’s probably gonna get even worse once the injuries start, which is guaranteed. Guys are gonna start getting "hurt” and going on IR very soon, except for Eli....because he refuses to acknowledge that he blows donkey nuts at this point

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2 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

It’s hilarious, it really is. I mean, the kid has a possible shot to be a starting NFL QB, at least for a short time, and he pulls this ish. They’re doomed, and it’s probably gonna get even worse once the injuries start, which is guaranteed. Guys are gonna start getting "hurt” and going on IR very soon, except for Eli....because he refuses to acknowledge that he blows donkey nuts at this point

I want them to hit rock bottom. That way, the only direction they can go is up. 

 

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10 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

I want them to hit rock bottom. That way, the only direction they can go is up. 

 

I do as well. If you're gonna fall, go all the way down. They should have started the process 2 years ago

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8 minutes ago, Gmen4ever said:

I do as well. If you're gonna fall, go all the way down. They should have started the process 2 years ago

Yeah but you have to figure that 2 years ago they were coming off a double digit win season and it was the star what that blew it in the playoff game.

They thought they were so close but it in the end, yet so far. At least this way, everyone agrees that it wasn't premature.

Gotta take the good with the bad. 

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2 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

Yeah but you have to figure that 2 years ago they were coming off a double digit win season and it was the star what that blew it in the playoff game.

They thought they were so close but it in the end, yet so far. At least this way, everyone agrees that it wasn't premature.

Gotta take the good with the bad. 

The fact that the OL was terrible even then was why I refused to buy into that 11-5 team as being legit. What has happened since comes as zero surprise to me

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On 10/12/2018 at 7:12 PM, Br3 said:

Change my mind.

The giants have won the super bowl twice in the last 10 years and now are facing an aging QB and a rebuild.  They had a couple of bad breaks with bad coaches and we all know how a bad coach can set a team back a few years.

The Giants are nothing like the cleveland browns,......to even argue that is a joke.  The giants are a stable organization whose owner want to win and won't hang with a bad GM or bad coach very long. 

They have 9 picks this draft and their picks should be very high in each round.  They already have some very good skill players.  I'm sure a QB will be taken and/or a free agent signed.  Plus they could be very active draft day to pick up more picks. 

In this day and age, teams can rebuild in a year or two.......except for the browns.

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After thought I can see the Giants becoming the new Bengals. Good enough to make the playoffs half the time, rarely if even win a playoff game.

My reasoning is they have some ultra talented players. If they grab a QB who is just a JAG he might be good enough to win 7 to 9 games every year (Andy Daulton type). But not good enough to beat really good teams an important game or playoff situation. 

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4 hours ago, boogyman said:

After thought I can see the Giants becoming the new Bengals. Good enough to make the playoffs half the time, rarely if even win a playoff game.

My reasoning is they have some ultra talented players. If they grab a QB who is just a JAG he might be good enough to win 7 to 9 games every year (Andy Daulton type). But not good enough to beat really good teams an important game or playoff situation. 

I could live with that. Not good enough to win anything important, but not bad enough to get premium draft picks.

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18 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Sorry Giants fans, you're not getting the #1 pick, and will not get Justin. The Raiders will make sure of that.

Oh well, fortunately, he's not the only QB available (and he might not even declare) and that 2020 class is looking loaded 

Honestly, a part of me would rather continue to build the roster and the be able to select from Jake Fromm, Tua, Eason and even still possibly Herbert and Daniel Jones.

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25 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Oh well, fortunately, he's not the only QB available (and he might not even declare) and that 2020 class is looking loaded 

Honestly, a part of me would rather continue to build the roster and the be able to select from Jake Fromm, Tua, Eason and even still possibly Herbert and Daniel Jones.

I’d be willing to tank another season for Tua. Trade back a few times this year and collect more picks. Rebuild properly.

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4 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

Oh well, fortunately, he's not the only QB available (and he might not even declare) and that 2020 class is looking loaded 

Honestly, a part of me would rather continue to build the roster and the be able to select from Jake Fromm, Tua, Eason and even still possibly Herbert and Daniel Jones.

I think he'll declare because he'll be the consensus #1 pick, the rest of the crop is a bunch of JAGs. As for 2020, it is loaded no doubt, but y'all will have to go for 1-2 wins again to get in the mix for the top QBs. The fact that the class is so high profile will make trading up unusually expensive as well.

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16 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

I’d be willing to tank another season for Tua. Trade back a few times this year and collect more picks. Rebuild properly.

Another year of this crap, no thanks, Giants have been trash since 2013, 1 playoff appearance in the last 7 seasons, 2012 was a winning record at 9-7 but no playoffs,  I am Fing tired of watching loser football...

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I think the Giants cannot take the risk of skipping another year on QB in the draft. This year's draft is not bad and everyone is already hyping up 2020. This is the best time for the Giants to get their guy.

The Raiders are a pest to the Giants because they will likely be taking a QB, knowing Gruden.

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And remember, everyone downplayed the 2016 draft with Wentz and look how that turned out. Both Wentz and Goff were faced with criticism despite their high selections.

I think Gettleman is a smart guy and is likely to get the pick right. The Giants are the only rivalry I care about so I sort of want them to be good. And also I want to see a lot of people eat crow who have been crucifying the Giants for taking Barkley.

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As an unbiased football fan, I stand by my statement that the Giants should take a QB because they really like the QB. Not because they need one.

As a biased Eagles fan, I hope they force the issue because they feel desperate.

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This QB crop is pretty week though, the best of the bunch is Justin, who needs a lot of development. Grier, Lock, and Patterson are all low end prospects, who would be second rounders if they were in the 2018 draft, if not lower.

The Goff/Wentz comparison doesn’t fit IMO because their talent was never in question. Goff had a down senior year compared to expectations, and Wentz had the stigma of lower competition, their overall talent was never the issue. Other than Justin, the rest of the QBs are Christian Ponder/EJ Manuel type low talent QBs.

The Giants are in a tricky spot, either they over draft a QB with a lower ceiling than Darnold/Rosen. Or roll the dice with draft position they will be in come 2020. Their best hope is they somehow get the #1 pick and draft Justin.

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29 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

This QB crop is pretty week though, the best of the bunch is Justin, who needs a lot of development. Grier, Lock, and Patterson are all low end prospects, who would be second rounders if they were in the 2018 draft, if not lower.

The Goff/Wentz comparison doesn’t fit IMO because their talent was never in question. Goff had a down senior year compared to expectations, and Wentz had the stigma of lower competition, their overall talent was never the issue. Other than Justin, the rest of the QBs are Christian Ponder/EJ Manuel type low talent QBs.

The Giants are in a tricky spot, either they over draft a QB with a lower ceiling than Darnold/Rosen. Or roll the dice with draft position they will be in come 2020. Their best hope is they somehow get the #1 pick and draft Justin.

It's not a sexy crop. Grier, Lock, and Patterson are blah but Daniel Jones and Haskins are interesting. Hard to say this early.

 I just rather they get the right guy than roll the dice on someone they don't really like.

Supposedly the 2018 class was this unbelievable crop but the top picks have actually been struggling mightily. I don't think a single one has a passer rating in the top 40.

Even if the Giants wait till 2020 they dont necessarily have to have 1-2 wins. The Eagles, Rams, Chiefs, etc all traded to get their guys and none are regretting the moves.

We'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

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34 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

It's not a sexy crop. Grier, Lock, and Patterson are blah but Daniel Jones and Haskins are interesting. Hard to say this early.

 I just rather they get the right guy than roll the dice on someone they don't really like.

Supposedly the 2018 class was this unbelievable crop but the top picks have actually been struggling mightily. I don't think a single one has a passer rating in the top 40.

Even if the Giants wait till 2020 they dont necessarily have to have 1-2 wins. The Eagles, Rams, Chiefs, etc all traded to get their guys and none are regretting the moves.

We'll have to wait and see what happens.

 

The 2018 class should be struggling, their rookies, but they all have passed the eye tests as QBs of the future, expect Allen. Goff was horrible his rookie year, and Wentz struggled as well after the first half of the year. Just wait till the 2019 class comes into focus, it'll show you just how good the 2018 class was.

Trading up in 2020 is gonna be different than it was a few years ago. The success of teams that have traded up to get a QB is gonna drive the price up, because more teams are going to be emboldened to do it. Not to mention the fact that the teams with the top picks are needed to not have a need at QB.

Like I said, tricky situation.

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8 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

The 2018 class should be struggling, their rookies, but they all have passed the eye tests as QBs of the future, expect Allen. Goff was horrible his rookie year, and Wentz struggled as well after the first half of the year. Just wait till the 2019 class comes into focus, it'll show you just how good the 2018 class was.

Trading up in 2020 is gonna be different than it was a few years ago. The success of teams that have traded up to get a QB is gonna drive the price up, because more teams are going to want to do it. Not to mention the fact that the teams with the top picks need not to have a need at QB.

Like I said, tricky situation.

True to an extent. Young QBs usually do pass the eye test because they're showing off physical abilities. Even bums like Geno Smith initially passed the eye test. I personally have always felt that the 2018 class was a little overhyped due to the demand. 

That also factors into 2019-2020. Many of the teams that have needed QBs have gone out and drafted them already. 

I know that now that the realization that the 2018 draft wasn't the class class with qb prospects has served in, we want to pretend that getting a qb in the future is impossible. It's not. 

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I dont think the last draft class can be judged yet. Darnold went to the Jets with little offensive talent. Mayfield went to an 0 and 16 team. They need to be give a couple years in the least.

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2 minutes ago, boogyman said:

I dont think the last draft class can be judged yet. Darnold went to the Jets with little offensive talent. Mayfield went to an 0 and 16 team. They need to be give a couple years in the least.

I agree for the most part. That being said, I find it interesting that  although  we cant judge the 2018 class yet, apparently we can already write off the 2019 class outside of Herbert.

Fascinating..

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2 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

I agree for the most part. That being said, I find it interesting that  although  we cant judge the 2018 class yet, apparently we can already write off the 2019 class outside of Herbert.

Fascinating..

You are amalgamating talent with NFL production, they are two different things. The 2018 class' talent was never in question, how they produce long term is what remains to be seen. The problem with the 2019 class is the talent itself, outside of Herbert (who is very talented but raw) the talent isn't measuring up to 2018 or early indications of 2020.

Take for example the 2019 D-Line class, it's loaded with talent. In contrast, the 2019 WR class is said to be a dumpster fire.

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