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Giants in rebuild mode

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From a fans perspective, here is how I rank the situations my team can be in (with examples):

1. Established winner, always at the top of the standings, playoff participant and competing for a championship (Pats, Saints, Steelers, and to a lesser extent the Eagles).

2. A team in complete rebuild mode, stocked with picks, young players and a clear outlook for the future (Browns and maybe by next year the Raiders).

3. Middle of the pack team. They win anywhere from 6-9 games. Never get a high draft pick, never make any noise in the playoffs (Chargers, Cowboys, Redskins). 

4. Perpetual loser team (also the Browns, Jets).  

The Giants have a winning heritage, so to call them the Browns would be ridiculous, but they are most closely associated with situation #4 right now. I hope they sell off as many vets as possible and quickly move into situation #2, which is actually enjoyable to watch. As a NY fan I just watched the Yankees go through it. The Knicks and Rangers are going through it now as well. The Giants might as well join the party. See you in 2020 NY sports. 

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1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Hmm... Hard to win a SB that way though? Says the Eagles fan who's team pretty much did that last year. 

Also coming from a Giants fan who's team  won two SBs with a middle of the pack QB. Build around the right guy and it can work. 

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1 hour ago, Northern Green Wings said:

Whoops I had a typo in there, meant to say they will suck so bad it's possible they are picking ahead of the Raiders and can draft their young QB of the future.

But if Cooper was traded for a 1st rounder, Carr will most definitely demand at least a first rounder. I don't think the Giants would swing that deal though considering their 1st rounder may be the 1st overall.

Which is also why I found it surprising the Cowboys dealt their 1st rounder as it's highly likely a top 15 possible top 10 pick. That or maybe we don't give Gruden and his negotiating tactics enough credit.

From what i’ve read Dallas scouts (and it’s been echoed by other national writers) don’t have any receivers scouted in the upcoming draft as being even top 25 pick. Dallas scouts feel Cooper at 24 is worth a top 10 pick. 

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39 minutes ago, NOTW said:

:smoke:

Sure.  Just saying strictly 1st round vs later rounds.  If there's not a 1st round QB worth taking in the top 3 or 4 picks, do they take BPA and then get a QB in another round or is there a prospect worth it that high?

Got ya...I think there is one QB worth a top 5 pick next year, and he even might be a reach 

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6 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Yup, this ain't baseball where unless you have a top 5 payroll it takes 5-8 years to rebuild.  NFL is a 2-3 year rebuild league and any small market team can do it.  that said, I am again happy the Giants didn't start 2 years ago as they should have.  As a matter of fact, IMHO, the Giants should have started the rebuild after 2015.  Instead they invested $100m in a quick fix defense that got them 1 playoff appearance and 3 more years of watching Eli turn to rust like the Tin Man.

Agreed 100%

They screwed around and held out hope that Eli could still play at a high level, and that the minimal attention that they paid to the OL would be enough to keep the chains moving. They completely screwed the pooch, and now they're gonna pay the price. It was inevitable, and I'm not gonna sweat a thing for the next couple of years with this team, as long as they do things right. Fix the damn trenches first, above all else, and the rest will fall right into place.

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4 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So who's the star QB coming in to the draft next year then? And is he someone people think can a really really good nfl QB? 

i like Will Grier at W Virginia 

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3 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

Agreed 100%

They screwed around and held out hope that Eli could still play at a high level, and that the minimal attention that they paid to the OL would be enough to keep the chains moving. They completely screwed the pooch, and now they're gonna pay the price. It was inevitable, and I'm not gonna sweat a thing for the next couple of years with this team, as long as they do things right. Fix the damn trenches first, above all else, and the rest will fall right into place.

Yep. They hoped for another miracle run but it didn't pan out. Instead of fixing the situation, they kept putting duct tape and polish on it.

Now they gotta tear it down. I much prefer they go ahead and confidently commit to the rebuild than go at it half heartedly with 2nd thoughts

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3 hours ago, NCTANK said:

i like Will Grier at W Virginia 

Me too.

Giants will have a good opportunity to get their situation straight. Patience and 2 off seasons could do it.

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6 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

From what i’ve read Dallas scouts (and it’s been echoed by other national writers) don’t have any receivers scouted in the upcoming draft as being even top 25 pick. Dallas scouts feel Cooper at 24 is worth a top 10 pick. 

I dont know ... seems more liek Jerry being Jerry . Who said they had to go with a WR anyone in the 1st when there is other bigs needs. You now have Cooper for a 1.5 year rental at 14 mil next year.  You lose the have cheap talent for 5 years .... Dallas loves that  because they hate to pay guys .  Nothing will stop Cooper from leaving if he wants to.  I could see it as a good move in Cowboys were a SB ready team  with a player or two away form winning . So not even half way through the season they now switch from saying they dont need a WR1  because Dak does better spreading the ball ... Dallas brought in some many WRs this year as well .  somethign dont smell right .... btw the got rid of Dez because he had a drop problem .. so they say . But cooper has a higher drop percentage then Dez . ALso how long until he get the playbook right .

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17 minutes ago, NE.Jon said:

I dont know ... seems more liek Jerry being Jerry . Who said they had to go with a WR anyone in the 1st when there is other bigs needs. You now have Cooper for a 1.5 year rental at 14 mil next year.  You lose the have cheap talent for 5 years .... Dallas loves that  because they hate to pay guys .  Nothing will stop Cooper from leaving if he wants to.  I could see it as a good move in Cowboys were a SB ready team  with a player or two away form winning . So not even half way through the season they now switch from saying they dont need a WR1  because Dak does better spreading the ball ... Dallas brought in some many WRs this year as well .  somethign dont smell right .... btw the got rid of Dez because he had a drop problem .. so they say . But cooper has a higher drop percentage then Dez . ALso how long until he get the playbook right .

I think they realized they were wrong about not needing a #1 wr and overspent to correct it. 

I think WR and TE are by far their biggest needs. The only need on D is FS, and everybody knows they are signing Earl Thomas this next offseason.  On O you wont get a QB in this draft unless you are picking  1, Dallas wouldn’t go RB In Round 1, or OL....so that leaves WR and TE...and there isn’t a TE or WR worthy of a top 20 pick

I don’t agree with them cutting Dez, but they didn’t cut Dez because of drops, they got rid of him Bc his production didn’t match his salary and that was mainly bc he is always banged up...which I think is why he is on the couch still.

im not worries about Cooper’s drops. He averages 1 drop every other game...I can live with that if he can produce .

Not worried about the playbook...Dallas offense is the most simple in the NFL.

i am worried  that the coaching staff won’t tweak the offense to fit Cooper and/or design plays to free him up...if they don’t treat him like a #1, then It is a waste...and honestly I think it will be for this year. Cooper may help a little, but he isn’t going to solve all their problems on offense...but I think Linehan gets fired at the end of the year and Dallas goes a whole new direction schemewise, and at that point I will be glad to have Cooper.

Dallas is a projected 70m under the cap next year...if Cooper produces they can afford to pay him and will.

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8 hours ago, Pallidrone said:

I am a believer that if you dont have a QB and you have a chance to get one high in the 1st round, you get that guy. You may miss out on him, but chances are higher at finding a good QB there then at any other point in the draft.

Unless his name is Mark "Butt-Fumble" Sanchez 

      who was drafted #5 overall in 2009.  

  Just goes to show: nothing is certain.

        Rex Ryan pretty much ruined Sanchez.

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5 minutes ago, bwestbrook36 said:

Need a good coach , Shurmur blows

Nah, you just need players to play well. People were questioning Pederson every week in 2016. Then he was a genius in 2017. Now he’s middle of the pack. There’s only one NFL coach that’s consistently great and that’s Belichick and even he has the goat. 

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1 hour ago, BKLYNYG said:

Nah, you just need players to play well. People were questioning Pederson every week in 2016. Then he was a genius in 2017. Now he’s middle of the pack. There’s only one NFL coach that’s consistently great and that’s Belichick and even he has the goat. 

True but, shurmur was here twice.. a head coach for the browns and an offensive coordinator for the Vikings also a stint with the Rams. He is considered a pushover and can't deal with strong personalities. This is the same guy that can't let go of Bradford's so called talent.I mean you can buy into him if you want but, he already lost control of your team year 1. This isn't Pederson who had his chances like shurmur has. 

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7 hours ago, bwestbrook36 said:

True but, shurmur was here twice.. a head coach for the browns and an offensive coordinator for the Vikings also a stint with the Rams. He is considered a pushover and can't deal with strong personalities. This is the same guy that can't let go of Bradford's so called talent.I mean you can buy into him if you want but, he already lost control of your team year 1. This isn't Pederson who had his chances like shurmur has. 

Losing games doesn’t mean he has lost control of the team. They aren’t quitting

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21 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

 I don't see Darnold as being some can't miss guy, he could turn out to be good, but 3-4 of those guys come out every year. Not true of Barkley. If the coaching staff looked at Darnold and weren't 100% sold on him being a franchise QB, they did the right thing....I mean unless Darnold turns out to be legit....

I never liked Darnold, 'd probably take Barkley and next years Sam Darnold over Darnold and whatever's there in the top 5 next year. If they can add a couple O lineman in the draft and FA next year whatever rookie QB they get is walking into a hell of a situation. 

You can call me narrow minded, but I simply didn't like him because he was from USC. Palmer has been the best QB from there and the next best is probably Sanchez. 

21 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So who's the star QB coming in to the draft next year then? And is he someone people think can a really really good nfl QB? 

 

20 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

eh, the only kid I see is that that Justin Herbert kid from Oregon...6'6, 225, seems to have all the tools physically....but I bet you a couple other teams will talk themselves into 1-2 other guys in the top 10.

2020 looks to have a good class, headlined by the kid from Alabama Tua T...whatever and the kid from Georgia

Is the kid from Georgia you're talking about Jake Fromm or Justin Fields?

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8 hours ago, bwestbrook36 said:

True but, shurmur was here twice.. a head coach for the browns and an offensive coordinator for the Vikings also a stint with the Rams. He is considered a pushover and can't deal with strong personalities. This is the same guy that can't let go of Bradford's so called talent.I mean you can buy into him if you want but, he already lost control of your team year 1. This isn't Pederson who had his chances like shurmur has. 

As Gmen said, the team is playing hard, they're just not very good right now (we're also losing a lot of close games outside of the Eagles and Saints). I think people get a little too caught up in OBJ's antics. He's not a reflection of the entire team. That said, if Shurmur is given a better roster next year and the team continues to struggle offensively then he's a goner. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Mat said:

You can call me narrow minded, but I simply didn't like him because he was from USC. Palmer has been the best QB from there and the next best is probably Sanchez. 

 

Is the kid from Georgia you're talking about Jake Fromm or Justin Fields?

Fromm...but I've seen Fields listed as a mid to late 1st rounder....I'm sure QB desperate teams will convince themselves he's a borderline top 10 pick

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3 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

Fromm...but I've seen Fields listed as a mid to late 1st rounder....I'm sure QB desperate teams will convince themselves he's a borderline top 10 pick

That's usually what happens which is why I believe the 2018 QB draft class was overrated. Each qb had their share of red flags and such but there was a demand and teams convinced themselves that they were can't miss guys.

At this time last year, it was thought that Rosen and Darnold were the only QBs worth taking in the 1st. By the time the draft rolled around, suddenly there were 5 guaranteed big time franchise QBs available and 4 in the top 10!.

 

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On 10/24/2018 at 8:36 PM, LacesOut said:

Me too.

Giants will have a good opportunity to get their situation straight. Patience and 2 off seasons could do it.

Until they replace Gettleman, they are not going anywhere.

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20 minutes ago, Pallidrone said:

Until they replace Gettleman, they are not going anywhere.

He was very up and down this off season. He drafted really well but bombed in free agency. I’m curious to see what he could do with 9 picks or more next year. 

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3 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

He was very up and down this off season. He drafted really well but bombed in free agency. I’m curious to see what he could do with 9 picks or more next year. 

Im not much of a conspiracy theory guy but I suspect they're using Gettleman as almost a mascot/scapegoat to excuse mistakes and it's really Kevin Abrams doing the work behind the curtain. Let the old animated man Gettleman take the hits during the faceplant and rebuild and then publicly pass the torch to Abrams.

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On 10/24/2018 at 11:55 AM, Stephen1 said:

 I don't see Darnold as being some can't miss guy, he could turn out to be good, but 3-4 of those guys come out every year. Not true of Barkley. If the coaching staff looked at Darnold and weren't 100% sold on him being a franchise QB, they did the right thing....I mean unless Darnold turns out to be legit....

I never liked Darnold, 'd probably take Barkley and next years Sam Darnold over Darnold and whatever's there in the top 5 next year. If they can add a couple O lineman in the draft and FA next year whatever rookie QB they get is walking into a hell of a situation. 

Barkley behind a decent OL might average 6 yards per carry.  Wouldn't shock met at all. 

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