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Giants fans - Saquon Barkley?

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12 hours ago, ShakeThatMonkey said:

hTom Coughlin was so perfect for the Giants. I think they let him go prematurely, though I understand that they needed "somebody" to go. Ben McAdoo duped everybody.

Yep, he only became a problem when he couldn't win the Giants another championship, with the old players that needed to go anyway. I'd still take him "with his faults" over what we've had after his departure. where they screwed up, was signing Manning to the term they did, that's and overall poor decisions.

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3 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

He was part of the problem, as was Reese. Thats not wrong at all. Look at how many coaches and coordinators have been here since, and they all failed.

Only one player has been the constant throughout all of those changes, and they're still losing. There's still one more huge problem to take care of...

Who? Eli or OBJ? They're both your problems.

Eli could have had that game wrapped up at halftime but he makes a terrible pass and Jenkins picks it off. That was your game right there. I said to myself, the Giants played about as good as they could and the Eagles played about as bad as they could but the Giants were only up one score. At that point I felt very confident the Eagles would come back and win. The Giants should have been up 21 at half.

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48 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Who? Eli or OBJ? They're both your problems.

Eli could have had that game wrapped up at halftime but he makes a terrible pass and Jenkins picks it off. That was your game right there. I said to myself, the Giants played about as good as they could and the Eagles played about as bad as they could but the Giants were only up one score. At that point I felt very confident the Eagles would come back and win. The Giants should have been up 21 at half.

I will agree with that, but for some reason our defense gets a pass after they didn't do crap in the 2nd half to get the Eagles off the field. we have so many issues that need fixing. 

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2 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

Who? Eli or OBJ? They're both your problems.

Eli could have had that game wrapped up at halftime but he makes a terrible pass and Jenkins picks it off. That was your game right there. I said to myself, the Giants played about as good as they could and the Eagles played about as bad as they could but the Giants were only up one score. At that point I felt very confident the Eagles would come back and win. The Giants should have been up 21 at half.

I was speaking of Eli. Beckham is the least of their worries, no matter how many people want to overreact every time the man breathes.

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1 hour ago, Gmen4ever said:

I was speaking of Eli. Beckham is the least of their worries, no matter how many people want to overreact every time the man breathes.

I'm afraid for you, Eli is going to be back. The Giants will probably get a few more wins and end up picking 6-10, or somewhere in that range. None of these QB's are Andrew Luck so I doubt you hand the keys over to a rookie who needs time to adjust to the NFL.

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7 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

He was part of the problem, as was Reese. Thats not wrong at all. Look at how many coaches and coordinators have been here since, and they all failed.

Only one player has been the constant throughout all of those changes, and they're still losing. There's still one more huge problem to take care of...

Your logic is garbage.  First you blamed Coughlin, then Reese, then Eli.  Once all three are gone, we will be even worse off then we were before.  Reese was the only one of the 3 that really needed to go.  The only reason I don't advocate for Eli anymore is that he's old, and the team sucks so why not get a replacement?  But you're ignorant if you think getting a new QB is going to help us block better, rush the passer better because those two things are the Giants main issues. 

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48 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

I'm afraid for you, Eli is going to be back. The Giants will probably get a few more wins and end up picking 6-10, or somewhere in that range. None of these QB's are Andrew Luck so I doubt you hand the keys over to a rookie who needs time to adjust to the NFL.

He may be back but if he is he'll have a new shiny first round QB standing behind him on the sideline waiting to take his job after the first bad game he has.  That's just the reality of the situation.

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1 hour ago, Gmen4ever said:

I was speaking of Eli. Beckham is the least of their worries, no matter how many people want to overreact every time the man breathes.

100% disagree.  OBJ is not a team player, he's selfish, has proven to be a locker room cancer, and to be honest what Mike said about him on the radio was pretty darn accurate.  We haven't won a thing with him.  5 years and 10-15 games under .500?  And he's worth 20 million a year?  Gimmie a break.

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4 minutes ago, Happyfoosball said:

100% disagree.  OBJ is not a team player, he's selfish, has proven to be a locker room cancer, and to be honest what Mike said about him on the radio was pretty darn accurate.  We haven't won a thing with him.  5 years and 10-15 games under .500?  And he's worth 20 million a year?  Gimmie a break.

I think he's a good player and he's been less mouthy here lately, but for all he does right he always seems to find a way to screw it up.

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16 minutes ago, GA4M said:

I think he's a good player and he's been less mouthy here lately, but for all he does right he always seems to find a way to screw it up.

He's a good receiver, but receivers don't really win.  Which is why the best teams in the NFL that go to the super bowls and win don't pay their receivers an outrageous amount of money.  They pay OL, DL, and QB.  That's the winning formula.  It hasn't changed in forever.   I think a lot of us could live with it easier if he'd keep his mouth shut with the media. 

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7 minutes ago, Happyfoosball said:

He's a good receiver, but receivers don't really win.  Which is why the best teams in the NFL that go to the super bowls and win don't pay their receivers an outrageous amount of money.  They pay OL, DL, and QB.  That's the winning formula.  It hasn't changed in forever.   I think a lot of us could live with it easier if he'd keep his mouth shut with the media. 

I agree, the Giants put themselves in a pickle with that big arse contract. and I do believe we'll hear more of his antics as the loses pile up, you know that. I truly believe the guy will never change,  so now we can only hope he's grows out of his stupid BS.

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5 hours ago, GA4M said:

I agree, the Giants put themselves in a pickle with that big arse contract. and I do believe we'll hear more of his antics as the loses pile up, you know that. I truly believe the guy will never change,  so now we can only hope he's grows out of his stupid BS.

The Vernon contract is a killer also. I think he is the second highest paid player on the team this season after Eli. I admit I dont know the money ramifications after this season as far as cutting him and dead money.

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6 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

Your logic is garbage.  First you blamed Coughlin, then Reese, then Eli.  Once all three are gone, we will be even worse off then we were before.  Reese was the only one of the 3 that really needed to go.  The only reason I don't advocate for Eli anymore is that he's old, and the team sucks so why not get a replacement?  But you're ignorant if you think getting a new QB is going to help us block better, rush the passer better because those two things are the Giants main issues. 

So a QB that doesn’t see the field beyond 5 yards in front of him isn’t a problem? Yeah, you’re really on to something there...

A new QB isn’t going to solve all of the problems, but it’ll sure as F solve at least one big one. You’re blind if you don’t see that

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6 hours ago, Happyfoosball said:

100% disagree.  OBJ is not a team player, he's selfish, has proven to be a locker room cancer, and to be honest what Mike said about him on the radio was pretty darn accurate.  We haven't won a thing with him.  5 years and 10-15 games under .500?  And he's worth 20 million a year?  Gimmie a break.

Provide proof that he’s a locker room cancer, because from everything I’ve seen, his teammates love him. 

They haven’t won a thing with him? They haven’t won a thing with ANYBODY, dumb a**. He and Barkley are the only two guys who are worth watching on the entire team, because they’re the only ones who consistently do their damn jobs

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1 hour ago, boogyman said:

The Vernon contract is a killer also. I think he is the second highest paid player on the team this season after Eli. I admit I dont know the money ramifications after this season as far as cutting him and dead money.

They made a decent LT the highest paid lineman in the game at the age of 30. That should bite them in the arse eventually too

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9 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

So a QB that doesn’t see the field beyond 5 yards in front of him isn’t a problem? Yeah, you’re really on to something there...

A new QB isn’t going to solve all of the problems, but it’ll sure as F solve at least one big one. You’re blind if you don’t see that

Eli's been throwing down the field for weeks what are you talking about?  He's in a short pass offense.  Don't you realize that?  But since the Carolina game if anything Eli has been pushing downfield probably more than he should as evidence by the interception he threw at the end of the half last week. 

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8 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

Provide proof that he’s a locker room cancer, because from everything I’ve seen, his teammates love him. 

They haven’t won a thing with him? They haven’t won a thing with ANYBODY, dumb a**. He and Barkley are the only two guys who are worth watching on the entire team, because they’re the only ones who consistently do their damn jobs

False.  Hernandez and Brown have been a huge lift to this team.  The reason Barkley, OBJ, and even Eli have been putting up decent numbers lately is the OL has been playing better  SPECIFICALLY because of the two of them.  The defense has been putrid for the same reason, they gave away snacks and their getting murdered on the line of scrimmage.  Football is won at the line of scrimmage.  I will tell you this every time you come back me with this weak crap that has consistently been proven wrong.  FYI we've won two super bowls with Eli.  What was the difference?  How about Tuck, Strahan, Snee, Diehl, gimmie a break. 

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23 minutes ago, Happyfoosball said:

Eli's been throwing down the field for weeks what are you talking about?  He's in a short pass offense.  Don't you realize that?  But since the Carolina game if anything Eli has been pushing downfield probably more than he should as evidence by the interception he threw at the end of the half last week. 

I said nothing about pushing the ball downfield, I said that he's not seeing downfield, and hasn't for a couple of seasons. Just because he's in a short pass offense doesn't mean he can't throw deep

That pick to finish out the first half was all the proof anyone needs that he's a problem. He threw into triple coverage, rather than tossing it to Barkley, who was wide open right in front of him, with not a single defender near him for close to 10 yards. That could have very well been an easy TD, especially when you consider how hard he(Barkley) was playing up to that point. Just another dumb Eli moment

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27 minutes ago, Happyfoosball said:

False.  Hernandez and Brown have been a huge lift to this team.  The reason Barkley, OBJ, and even Eli have been putting up decent numbers lately is the OL has been playing better  SPECIFICALLY because of the two of them.  The defense has been putrid for the same reason, they gave away snacks and their getting murdered on the line of scrimmage.  Football is won at the line of scrimmage.  I will tell you this every time you come back me with this weak crap that has consistently been proven wrong.  FYI we've won two super bowls with Eli.  What was the difference?  How about Tuck, Strahan, Snee, Diehl, gimmie a break. 

Saying something is wrong doesn't prove anything, so please stop making an a** of yourself. Still waiting for proof that he's a locker room cancer as well. Saying it doesn't make it so

You said "We haven't won anything with him(Beckham)", and then you bring up Super Bowls that happened long before he was on the team. Seriously? :facepalm:

You also said something to the effect of "Teams dont win with superstar WR"s". Well, ok...why are you getting on his case and saying stupid ish like "We haven't won anything with him"? Seems to me that you want to blame him for the team not winning, and also stating that star WR's dont help teams win. Which one is it? You cant have it both ways, Sparky.

 

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This argument is pointless. You’re both right. The way back to the top of the standings is to rebuild the lines (Happy’s point). At the same time OBJ is a media ****, but he’s not in any way a locker room cancer. He practices and plays as hard as anyone and players recognize that (Gmen’s point). 

In regards to the plan going forward, oddly enough I don’t think OL is that far away. They’ve been playing well lately with the new additions and probably only need 1 new starter next year. Solder has been coming along, Hernandez is going to be a stud, Halapio was playing well at center before getting hurt (Pulley is nice insurance), Brown looks like a keeper at RG. They need to draft or sign a stud RT to replace Wheeler and we’ll be in good shape. Add some solid depth/competition as well. 

Next, bite the bullet and use our first rounder on a QB. If there’s truly no one available draft the best OT on the board. 

On the DL, it should be pretty easy to find a big body NT to replace Snacks. B.J. Hill and Tomlinson are definitely keepers. 

Cut Vernon, saves $11M.

Cut Jenkins, saves $8M

Use the savings to bolster the lines and find another edge rusher to go along with Carter. Pick up a vet CB, but let the young guys (Haley, Beal) take over at corner.

The toughest decision will be weather or not to cut Eli. If we cut him they’ll be a windfall of cash available to spread across the roster, but we’ll also be putting the team in the hands of a rookie (doesn’t scare me if it’s the right guy) or second/third tier veteran. Tough choice. Gettleman will have to do his homework and get a feel for what else is out there. 

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13 hours ago, mike030270 said:

So are you guys tanking? Because it'd be great if you guys could beat Skins and Dallas

Don't put any money on it.

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8 hours ago, Gmen4ever said:

Saying something is wrong doesn't prove anything, so please stop making an a** of yourself. Still waiting for proof that he's a locker room cancer as well. Saying it doesn't make it so

You said "We haven't won anything with him(Beckham)", and then you bring up Super Bowls that happened long before he was on the team. Seriously? :facepalm:

You also said something to the effect of "Teams dont win with superstar WR"s". Well, ok...why are you getting on his case and saying stupid ish like "We haven't won anything with him"? Seems to me that you want to blame him for the team not winning, and also stating that star WR's dont help teams win. Which one is it? You cant have it both ways, Sparky.

 

Your post is actually kind of hard to follow.  "Saying something is wrong doesn't prove anything?"  What are you talking about?  That I pointed out that what you said in your previous post about OBJ and Barkley being the only two players on the team doing their job was 100% garbage?  Okay?  If you don't like being called on it don't spew total BS in your posts. 

Just like this narrative that Eli hasn't been throwing down the field.  He has been, he has been fairly consistently taking shots down the field in every game since the Carolina game.  He hit OBJ on a 35-40 yarder last week.  Sometimes people like you get stuck on a narrative and you can't open your eyes and look at what's happening on the TV.  Try paying better attention, you'll make more sense.

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7 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

This argument is pointless. You’re both right. The way back to the top of the standings is to rebuild the lines (Happy’s point). At the same time OBJ is a media ****, but he’s not in any way a locker room cancer. He practices and plays as hard as anyone and players recognize that (Gmen’s point). 

In regards to the plan going forward, oddly enough I don’t think OL is that far away. They’ve been playing well lately with the new additions and probably only need 1 new starter next year. Solder has been coming along, Hernandez is going to be a stud, Halapio was playing well at center before getting hurt (Pulley is nice insurance), Brown looks like a keeper at RG. They need to draft or sign a stud RT to replace Wheeler and we’ll be in good shape. Add some solid depth/competition as well. 

Next, bite the bullet and use our first rounder on a QB. If there’s truly no one available draft the best OT on the board. 

On the DL, it should be pretty easy to find a big body NT to replace Snacks. B.J. Hill and Tomlinson are definitely keepers. 

Cut Vernon, saves $11M.

Cut Jenkins, saves $8M

Use the savings to bolster the lines and find another edge rusher to go along with Carter. Pick up a vet CB, but let the young guys (Haley, Beal) take over at corner.

The toughest decision will be weather or not to cut Eli. If we cut him they’ll be a windfall of cash available to spread across the roster, but we’ll also be putting the team in the hands of a rookie (doesn’t scare me if it’s the right guy) or second/third tier veteran. Tough choice. Gettleman will have to do his homework and get a feel for what else is out there. 

I think we do need a long term solution at Center and RT at the very least.  I don't think Engram is the long term answer at TE, I would rather see someone who can block and make tough catches over the middle at that position even if it means sacrificing some big play ability.  We did well with guys like Kevin Boss and Jake Ballard (even if it was just for one year).  I'd like to get back to that prototype.  On the defense side we are a long ways away.  We probably need to replace practically the entire line at this point don't we?

I think the decision to cut Eli will be easier than you think.  If we can get the guy we want,  letting him go wouldn't be a bad idea.  Save the money and build aroudn the young QB because young QB's need help.  In todays NFL, with the current rules on hitting QB's, I wonder if a young QB is in the same kind of danger they used to be.  Food for thought.  But back to my point, if they don't find Eli's successor then you keep him another year. 

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