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VaBeach_Eagle

Hall of Fame reveals finalists for Class of 2019

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41 minutes ago, TheGodfather said:

He was definitely the best ballhawk of any safety of his era. Dawk was the best overall safety 

I looked it up, out of curiosity. Looking at a comparison of his INT's and Forced Fumbles, he had 75 combined (64 INTs 11 Forced Fumbles).

Dawkins had a combined total of 73 (36 INTs 37 Forced Fumbles).

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1 minute ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I looked it up, out of curiosity. Looking at a comparison of his INT's and Forced Fumbles, he had 75 combined (64 INTs 11 Forced Fumbles).

Dawkins had a combined total of 73 (36 INTs 37 Forced Fumbles).

Yea he has almost double the ints then Dawk. But Dawk knew how to punch them out better

Both are 2 of the best to ever play

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Just now, TheGodfather said:

Yea he has almost double the ints then Dawk. But Dawk knew how to punch them out better

Both are 2 of the best to ever play

Reed probably gets in on the first ballot, since he was a media darling. But I still say (in my fan biased mind), if Dawkins wasn't first ballot, then Reed shouldn't be either.

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1 minute ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Reed probably gets in on the first ballot, since he was a media darling. But I still say (in my fan biased mind), if Dawkins wasn't first ballot, then Reed shouldn't be either.

Yea but I think it happens

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Just now, TheGodfather said:

Yea but I think it happens

Off the topic a little, I'm still pissed that Harold Carmichael keeps getting snubbed.

Sure, his numbers don't look sexy compared to modern receiver numbers, but when he retired he was a top WR (stat wise) and it's a crime that they keep overlooking him.

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Just now, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Off the topic a little, I'm still pissed that Harold Carmichael keeps getting snubbed.

Sure, his numbers don't look sexy compared to modern receiver numbers, but when he retired he was a top WR (stat wise) and it's a crime that they keep overlooking him.

Agreed. He should've been in years ago. It's a shame because idk if he'll ever get in now

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1 hour ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Reed probably gets in on the first ballot, since he was a media darling. But I still say (in my fan biased mind), if Dawkins wasn't first ballot, then Reed shouldn't be either.

This is how I feel also. But I am 99.9% certain reed is getting in. 

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2 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I looked it up, out of curiosity. Looking at a comparison of his INT's and Forced Fumbles, he had 75 combined (64 INTs 11 Forced Fumbles).

Dawkins had a combined total of 73 (36 INTs 37 Forced Fumbles).

Unfortunately the interceptions are the flashier stat

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Just now, bwestbrook36 said:

Unfortunately the interceptions are the flashier stat

But FF's can flash too...

 

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Coryell and  Gonzalez are, to me, no brainers. Mawae, Bruce, James and Atwater maybe. I have a high standard for 1st ballot. Are Reed and Bailey 1st ballot great? I dunno, I think that honor should be for the top few ever. They were great, and will be in eventually, I just don't know about 1st ballot. Gonzalez is considered one of, if not the greatest at his position, worthy of 1st ballot.

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I sometimes wonder if Coryell would have been better suited as an offensive coordinator only. Whatever the case, I'd say he was good enough to be inducted. By the way, I've questioned the induction of Fouts, who had two playoff games in which he threw 5 ints, never made a Super Bowl, and as already mentioned, lost games at home when his team was favored and ended up being beaten - the game against a depleted Oilers team following the 1979 season comes to midn, a game where the Oilers were QB'd by Gifford Nielson and won 17-14. Fouts had a 36.3 QBR that game. Against Miami in 1982, He threw 5 ints in a 34-13 loss in the playoffs, and his QBR was 32.5. Not exactly at his best in big games. I'm not saying he should not be in the Hall, but I think he tends to be overrated.

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On 1/7/2019 at 2:39 PM, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Off the topic a little, I'm still pissed that Harold Carmichael keeps getting snubbed.

Sure, his numbers don't look sexy compared to modern receiver numbers, but when he retired he was a top WR (stat wise) and it's a crime that they keep overlooking him.

It is somewhat ironic considering our discussion earlier in the thread, but one of the problems with the Pro Football HOF is that it overrewards guys who played on championship teams and underrewards guys who played on mediocre or poor teams.  The top level teams almost by definition have more good players, but were/are all of them great?  Some guys are more successful because they play with even greater players who make them look better.  On the flip side, many mediocre or poor teams actually have a great player or two, but that player, especially if he isn’t a quarterback, usually can’t make his team good without getting better quality teammates and/or better coaches.

Guys like Harold Carmichael and Bill Bergey, who both were legitimately really good, possibly HOF quality players, have had and will continue to have a hard time getting inducted because they didn’t play on any Super Bowl/NFL championship teams and generally played on mediocre or poor teams for much of their careers.  Is it their fault their teammates, coaches, and/or general managers weren’t very good?

What really makes me scratch my head is when a great player who played on a dominant offense or defense but not a dominant team doesn’t get in because his team’s weaker unit and/or historically dominant teams in their own conference prevented him from winning championships.  To use an example, a guy like Randy Gradishar, Denver’s middle linebacker from the mid-1970s to early 1980s, still isn’t in the HOF, even though he was probably the best player on a defense that was arguably the best in the NFL for a couple years and pretty good many other years, had to carry its offense in many seasons, had a nickname (the Orange Crush Defense), and played in a Super Bowl (12, 1977 season; they lost to one Tom Landry’s best Dallas teams).  Gradishar was named a Pro Bowler and/or All-Pro most seasons of his career, was considered one of the top two middle linebackers when he played, along with Jack Lambert, and was named NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 1978.  How can someone like Gradishar, or for that matter NO ONE from those Denver defenses, which included Lyle Alzado, Tom Jackson, and handful of other very good players, not be in the HOF?  Not all the standout players on that Denver defense should be in the HOF, but 1-2 of them probably should be.  There are plenty of similar examples from other teams.  Excluding those types of standout players makes no sense.

At any rate, there are a lot of guys who should be in or at least considered for the Pro Football HOF but won’t be because they had ‘bad taste’ in teammates, coaches, and general managers.

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