Don Corleone

Ravens trading Joe Flacco to Broncos for 4th rd pick

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10 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Anyone think that the Ravens faith in Jackson to be their future, is misplaced?

I didn't see a whole lot of him last season and I don't follow college football, but the tiny bit that I did see, I was far from impressed. If this was the Eagles trading away Carson Wentz, or Nick if he was our starter, in favor of making Jackson the starter... I'd be pretty pissed. Granted, it's Flacco being traded, but I don't know that I'd be excited about Jackson.

I was largely unimpressed by the rookie QBs last year. Mayfield was the only that I can say actually looked good. Jackson and Darnold showed some promise at least, though I'm not sold on either as long term starters.

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3 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Anyone think that the Ravens faith in Jackson to be their future, is misplaced?

I didn't see a whole lot of him last season and I don't follow college football, but the tiny bit that I did see, I was far from impressed. If this was the Eagles trading away Carson Wentz, or Nick if he was our starter, in favor of making Jackson the starter... I'd be pretty pissed. Granted, it's Flacco being traded, but I don't know that I'd be excited about Jackson.

I don't. Jackson was 6-1 as the Ravens starter. The one loss is where the Ravens nearly pulled off the upset in Kansas City. LINK  His starting record is 6-2 if you count the loss to the Chargers in the playoffs. So yeah, he wasn't all that impressive in the playoff loss, but you could also say he was the reason the Ravens were able to crawl back in it. In college, Jackson won the Heisman trophy in 2016.

I'll take that guy on the rookie contract over the gizzled vet due to make over $20 million per year soon.

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2 hours ago, zenclaybourne said:

That was because of a sever career threatening injury, not his play on the field. Kurt Warner might be a better example.

And if not put in the right situation he would not have had the comeback that he did. All I meant was the team around Flacco could be better than anything he’s had in Baltimore for years. 

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22 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Anyone think that the Ravens faith in Jackson to be their future, is misplaced?

I didn't see a whole lot of him last season and I don't follow college football, but the tiny bit that I did see, I was far from impressed. If this was the Eagles trading away Carson Wentz, or Nick if he was our starter, in favor of making Jackson the starter... I'd be pretty pissed. Granted, it's Flacco being traded, but I don't know that I'd be excited about Jackson.

Like all running QBs if he doesn’t figure out the passing aspect he will be done. 

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16 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

Not to mention the age difference. People consider Foles old but he’s just under 4 years older than Wentz. By comparison Foles is 4 years younger than Flacco, so Flacco should be considered ancient if Foles is old. 

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7 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said:

Not to mention the age difference. People consider Foles old but he’s just under 4 years older than Wentz. By comparison Foles is 4 years younger than Flacco, so Flacco should be considered ancient if Foles is old. 

Agreed, Brandt needs to put down the pipe. That's about the worst hot-take I've seen in a while...

I'm not a Kempski fan, but I like his counterpoint. 

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3 hours ago, downundermike said:

Wow.  A former QB that is horrible at choosing QB's now that he is a GM.  Without the known quantity of Peyton Manning, Elway would have a 100% failure rate picking QB's.

In sports it seems like really elite superstars who become coaches or front office are often really mediocre at it and its the former non-superstar and often journeyman type players who have more success at coaching/front office

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59 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Anyone think that the Ravens faith in Jackson to be their future, is misplaced?

I didn't see a whole lot of him last season and I don't follow college football, but the tiny bit that I did see, I was far from impressed. If this was the Eagles trading away Carson Wentz, or Nick if he was our starter, in favor of making Jackson the starter... I'd be pretty pissed. Granted, it's Flacco being traded, but I don't know that I'd be excited about Jackson.

I only watched a couple games. They were comparing him to Vick

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17 minutes ago, flybynite said:

In sports it seems like really elite superstars who become coaches or front office are often really mediocre at it and its the former non-superstar and often journeyman type players who have more success at coaching/front office

I need an example.

914350380.jpg.0.jpg

eagles-parade-doug-pederson-fan-beer-cat

Spoiler

Okay, I just wanted to post more super bowl photos.

 

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36 minutes ago, toolg said:

I don't. Jackson was 6-1 as the Ravens starter. The one loss is where the Ravens nearly pulled off the upset in Kansas City. LINK  His starting record is 6-2 if you count the loss to the Chargers in the playoffs. So yeah, he wasn't all that impressive in the playoff loss, but you could also say he was the reason the Ravens were able to crawl back in it. In college, Jackson won the Heisman trophy in 2016.

I'll take that guy on the rookie contract over the gizzled vet due to make over $20 million per year soon.

I don't know that I'd put a lot of stock in the 6 wins. A win is a win and a team only plays who's on their schedule, but who did they beat in those 6 games and what were Jackson's numbers in those games?

The Bengals: 6-10
13/19 68.4% 150 YDS 0 TDs 1 INT 70.1 Passer Rating

The Raiders: 4-12
14/25 56% 178 YDS 1 TD 2 INTs 58.4 Passer Rating

The Falcons: 7-9
12/21 57.1% 125 YDS 0 TDs 0 INTs 74.5 Passer Rating

The Buccaneers: 5-11
14/23 60.9% 131 YDS 1 TD 0 UBTs 91 Passer Rating

The Browns: 7-8-1
14/24 58.3% 179 YDS 0 TDs 0 INTs 81.8 Passer Rating

The best team that they beat in that 7 game stretch was the 12-4 Chargers. In that game his stats were:
12/22 54.6% 204 YDS 1 TD 0 INTs 101.3 Passer Rating

As far as that playoff game goes, remember that very late in that game, Jackson's numbers were:
7/16 43.75 103 YDS 1 TD 1 INT 60.2 Passer Rating

With just an 'average' defense, do those QB numbers win all 6 of those games?

His overall numbers for those games that he started:
92/158 58.2% 1,114 YDS 5 TDs 3 INTs 82.6 Passer Rating

Average that out and project it for a full 16 games:
210/361 2,546 YDS 11 TDs 7 INTs

Of course, none of those numbers include his rushing yards. That's because I'm just talking about him as a QB (Passer).

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4 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Of course, none of those numbers include his rushing yards. That's because I'm just talking about him as a QB (Passer).

They might only be looking at him as a total running/passing option though. They don't necessarily commit to him past his 20s.

 

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5 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Of course, none of those numbers include his rushing yards. That's because I'm just talking about him as a QB (Passer).

This may come as a surprise to you, QBs are allowed to run with the ball too.

McNabb started out as a rookie QB running for his life before he settled in as a passer. Mornhinweg is the OC in Baltimore, and HC Harbaugh came from Andy Reid's staff in Philly. Vick had success playing under Mornhinweg in Philly. I can see him using similar plans for Jackson.

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42 minutes ago, toolg said:

This may come as a surprise to you, QBs are allowed to run with the ball too.

This may come as a surprise to you, but I said that I was only looking at the passing numbers. ;) 

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Joe Flacco, Since Winning Super Bowl

11252.png&w=120&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=true

Since winning the Super Bowl, Joe Flacco has fallen on hard times for the Ravens.

    NFL RANK
>> Out of 36 QBs with at least 1,000 att.
-- ESPN Stats & Information
Cash value $124M 4th
TD-Int ratio 1.4:1 34th <<
1st down pct. 31% 35th <<
Yards per att. 6.5 35th <<

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8 minutes ago, Havenless said:

Joe Flacco, Since Winning Super Bowl

11252.png&w=120&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=true

Since winning the Super Bowl, Joe Flacco has fallen on hard times for the Ravens.

    NFL RANK
>> Out of 36 QBs with at least 1,000 att.
-- ESPN Stats & Information
Cash value $124M 4th
TD-Int ratio 1.4:1 34th <<
1st down pct. 31% 35th <<
Yards per att. 6.5 35th <<

I was never overly impressed with him. Looking at his career stats, he's been consistently average. The highlighted year is his Super Bowl season.

flacco.thumb.JPG.fe22c4c4819b3937d2530c19a101516b.JPG

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46 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

I was never overly impressed with him. Looking at his career stats, he's been consistently average. The highlighted year is his Super Bowl season.

flacco.thumb.JPG.fe22c4c4819b3937d2530c19a101516b.JPG

Baker Mayfield broke the rookie record with 27 tds last year. That is Joe Flacco’s career high... think about that.

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2 minutes ago, Havenless said:

Baker Mayfield broke the rookie record with 27 tds last year. That is Joe Flacco’s career high... think about that.

Not only that, he did it with only 13 starts. Flacco did it with 16.

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3 minutes ago, Havenless said:

Baker Mayfield broke the rookie record with 27 tds last year. That is Joe Flacco’s career high... think about that.

Also, Mayfield had a passer rating of 93.7. The highest passer rating of Flacco's entire career is 93.6.

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Guest MH1989
4 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Anyone think that the Ravens faith in Jackson to be their future, is misplaced?

I didn't see a whole lot of him last season and I don't follow college football, but the tiny bit that I did see, I was far from impressed. If this was the Eagles trading away Carson Wentz, or Nick if he was our starter, in favor of making Jackson the starter... I'd be pretty pissed. Granted, it's Flacco being traded, but I don't know that I'd be excited about Jackson.

Yes and no.

On the one hand Jackson isn’t an amazing passer at this time. He didn’t set the league alight with his throws, it was more down to what he did with his legs, but credit where it’s due he did manage to turn it on in the fourth quarter in the play offs. The issue with Jackson is clear, if he never develops into a good passer he might struggle to have long term success in the league. Sooner or later NFL defense will figure him out and restrict him. So if he doesn’t develop things are going to be difficult for him. 

On the other hand, if Jackson does develop as a passer and can continue to combine that with his athletic ability, then he can truly be special. Flacco is what he is at this point in his career - average. He’s been mediocre since winning the Super Bowl. The Ravens were right to finally draft his successor and move on from him. Now I might disagree with who they picked, but if they truly believe in Jackson fair play to them for having the conviction to go all in. Another factor is the play book. They will want a backup that can run the same or similar scheme to which they will build around Jackson. Flacco is not that kind of quarterback, he can’t run that kind of scheme, so even had they kept him in that role they would have had to make changes if he needed to step in. Difference now is if they use RGIII as Jackson’s backup, or sign Tyrod Taylor, they can run the same kind of scheme so there won’t be any major changes. 

So there are pros and cons to their choice of successor, but the Ravens needed to move on from Flacco and they made their choice. Personally I’d rather have a more refined passer with decent but not elite athletic ability, than a raw passer with elite athletic ability; and I’d rather my quarterback have more size and physical presence, but that’s just me and what I look for in a quarterback. 

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5 minutes ago, MH1989 said:

Yes and no.

On the one hand Jackson isn’t an amazing passer at this time. He didn’t set the league alight with his throws, it was more down to what he did with his legs, but credit where it’s due he did manage to turn it on in the fourth quarter in the play offs. The issue with Jackson is clear, if he never develops into a good passer he might struggle to have long term success in the league. Sooner or later NFL defense will figure him out and restrict him. So if he doesn’t develop things are going to be difficult for him. 

On the other hand, if Jackson does develop as a passer and can continue to combine that with his athletic ability, then he can truly be special. Flacco is what he is at this point in his career - average. He’s been mediocre since winning the Super Bowl. The Ravens were right to finally draft his successor and move on from him. Now I might disagree with who they picked, but if they truly believe in Jackson fair play to them for having the conviction to go all in. Another factor is the play book. They will want a backup that can run the same or similar scheme to which they will build around Jackson. Flacco is not that kind of quarterback, he can’t run that kind of scheme, so even had they kept him in that role they would have had to make changes if he needed to step in. Difference now is if they use RGIII as Jackson’s backup, or sign Tyrod Taylor, they can run the same kind of scheme so there won’t be any major changes. 

So there are pros and cons to their choice of successor, but the Ravens needed to move on from Flacco and they made their choice. Personally I’d rather have a more refined passer with decent but not elite athletic ability, than a raw passer with elite athletic ability; and I’d rather my quarterback have more size and physical presence, but that’s just me and what I look for in a quarterback. 

He may turn out to be a fine QB with a great arm. Right now, I can only go by what I saw and the majority of what I saw was the playoff game and he was really bad for 85% of that game.

One game isn't enough to base an opinion on, of course. So we'll see what he becomes, or if he's playing in that new league within 2 or 3 years. I like Harbaugh so for his sake, I hope it works out for the best.

I don't mind mobile QBs, that mobility really helps the passing game. But a mobile QB is different from a running QB. Jackson will need to be a mobile QB and not just a running QB, if he wants a long and successful career in the NFL.

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51 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

 

Ok, that's the nugget that suddenly makes some sense out of all this.  I still think they are going to draft somebody in 1st rd.

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