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dawkins4prez

Brees is actually OVERRATED

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Yeah, we do need this thread.  Here is the argument for Brees being nothing more than the NFL version of a texas tech stat compiler.

 

1.  When he enters the NFL HoF, which he DOES deserve btw, he will be easily the weakest Qb arm to ever enter it.  He will be the only Qb to enter the HoF with a below average NFL arm strength.  There are a few that had average arm strength like Montana and Young, heck Tom Brady is above average at best.  But Brees is slightly below and always was.  He did have an NFL arm, we aren't talking Chad Pennington, but he could just barely make all the throws and often struggled to make them in bad weather...

 

2.  He is a product of the dome.  His career stats include a 133 passer rating at home and 99 on the road.  It is 121 on turf and 79.4 on grass.  That is a HUGE difference.  Now at no point am I saying he is chopped liver outside domes, the dude would have been a franchise Qb anywhere, but a HoF Qb only in the dome.

 

3.  ...and a product of the system.  Hate him or really hate him, Sean Payton has been a cutting edge offensive designer for Drew's entire time there.  The saints have had a deep and talented receiving corp his entire time New Orleans.

 

Drew Brees is a stat compiler who despite the records will go down as a top 15-25 all time NFL Qb.  This year HE lost that NFCCG.  At 40 yrs old he has lost a tick of the quickness that allowed him to make up for his weak arm, and the arm isn't even hitting tight windows in the dome anymore.  YES, he is one of the top 5 most accurate Qb's ever, maybe even #1.  YES, he will go down as one of the smartest/coach on the field Qb's ever, probably top 10 in that category too.  But the lack of physical tools, a weak arm with little talent to make exceptional throws, coupled with limited athletic ability is the reason this guy only made 1 Sb

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Brees is great and you mentioned that already but it makes no difference to me what his arm strength is or whether he played in a dome.  If you're putting up the numbers over a long career then that means you're making plays and making throws.  Peyton Manning is regarded as one of the greatest QB's ever and look at what he did in the playoffs.  He wasn't very good most of the time.

What the last sentence says about him and only making 1 SB...….I think that has more to do with needing more than just a great QB to win.  Yes Brees put up huge numbers year after year and they didn't win.  There wasn't much of a run game, O-line or defense.  Same with Aaron Rodgers.  Most regard him as the best right now but only has 1 SB and cant even make the playoffs.  Why?  No run game or defense.  As great as a QB may be, still need a complete team around him to win.

 

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He's crafted together a pretty outstanding career both on and off the field and is still playing at a pretty high level.    Myself personally as a football fan, I put him in the same category as Montana, Favre, Marino, Elway etc, as one of those guys that I always enjoy seeing play and will miss when he's not around to see anymore.     He did get the 1 ring too, so in some ways I would rank him ahead of Marino.

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Lots of qbs over the years with HOF arms that never amounted to anything so not sure what his arm strength has to do with his HOF credentials😯

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1 hour ago, RepPhilly said:

Brees is great and you mentioned that already but it makes no difference to me what his arm strength is or whether he played in a dome.  If you're putting up the numbers over a long career then that means you're making plays and making throws.  Peyton Manning is regarded as one of the greatest QB's ever and look at what he did in the playoffs.  He wasn't very good most of the time.

What the last sentence says about him and only making 1 SB...….I think that has more to do with needing more than just a great QB to win.  Yes Brees put up huge numbers year after year and they didn't win.  There wasn't much of a run game, O-line or defense.  Same with Aaron Rodgers.  Most regard him as the best right now but only has 1 SB and cant even make the playoffs.  Why?  No run game or defense.  As great as a QB may be, still need a complete team around him to win.

 

Just wanted to quote a spot on post by @skippyx that perfectly sums up my opinion on Rodgers. I do agree with the premise of your post though. You need more than just a great QB to win it all. The best of one playoff format the NFL institutes truly makes it an ultimate team sport. Any given Sunday.

On 12/16/2018 at 6:11 PM, skippyx said:

Some clowns want to push an agenda that Rodgers is the greatest QB. These same clowns have a Fake News agenda that Brady is only good because of the AFC East. The truth is that Aaron Rodgers is only good because of the NFC North.

  • Rodgers is 41-17-1 against his division. (.703)
  • He is 37-27 against the rest of the NFC (.578)
  • He is 24-16 against the AFC (.600)
  • Rodgers is about 19.9% better in his division compared to outside his division.
    • .703 compared to .587

Now lets compare him to Tom Brady

  • Brady is 79-21 against his division (.790)
  • He is 73-24 against the rest of the AFC (.752)
  • He is 52-15 against the NFC (.776)
  • Brady is about 3.7% better in his division compared to outside his division.
    • .790 compared to .762

Its true that 2011 was an amazing season for Rodgers (14-1 with a 122.5 rating). Its true that he is the champion of the TD to INT ratio stat.

What is also true is that outside of 2011, none of that relates to him winning much outside of his division.

He is 52-42 (.565) outside his division if you exclude 2011

THAT is a QB who goes 6-0 or 5-1 in division and then goes 5-5 outside the division and makes the playoffs at 10-6 or worse 4 times.

Rodgers is even 2-0 in the playoffs against his division and 7-7 in all other playoff games.

I will concede that Aaron Rodgers is a Cowboy killer (which I am thankful for) so his nickname of 'the sheriff' is absolutely warranted.

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1 hour ago, Quiet Boy said:

Just wanted to quote a spot on post by @skippyx that perfectly sums up my opinion on Rodgers. I do agree with the premise of your post though. You need more than just a great QB to win it all. The best of one playoff format the NFL institutes truly makes it an ultimate team sport. Any given Sunday.

I will concede that Aaron Rodgers is a Cowboy killer (which I am thankful for) so his nickname of 'the sheriff' is absolutely warranted.

The sheriff is Peyton Manning not Rogers

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25 minutes ago, bwestbrook36 said:

The sheriff is Peyton Manning not Rogers

Oh man...talk about egg on my face. 😂

I could've sworn I've heard him called that a few times. My mistake.

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5 minutes ago, Quiet Boy said:

Oh man...talk about egg on my face. 😂

I could've sworn I've heard him called that a few times. My mistake.

He could of been lol. Gruden is the one who gave Manning that nickname. For as over the top as he was he probably called everyone that lol

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The problem with the Brees argument is that it gives meaningless stats 10x more weight than winning.

  • It comes from clowns who think football in general and QB play in specific is not about winning.

Brees had a game where he put up like 520 yards and 2 TDs and was the worst player on the field.

  • This was against Cincy in the dome in 2006.
  • He had a pick 6 and a pair of picks into his own end zone in a home loss to the Bengals.
  • If he played a clean game with 390 yards 3 TDs and no picks, his team wins the game but he finishes 3rd in passing yards for the season instead of 1st.

He also had a great stats year in 2016 including some tough shootout losses and a few shootout wins.

  • He had 3 losses against 9-7 teams where he put up 8 picks in those 3 games (vs Detroit, vs Denver, and at Tampa)
  • He could have been the most valuable loser of 2016 if that award existed.
  • 'Drew Brees stats guy' wants to ignore that Drew Brees lost those 3 games where 4 picks instead of 8 probably means they go to the playoffs.

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2 minutes ago, bwestbrook36 said:

He could of been lol. Gruden is the one who gave Manning that nickname. For as over the top as he was he probably called everyone that lol

Yeah we all know Gruden's affinity for every QB except the one he's starting. :lol:

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Basketball Comparison:

If you really want to see how meaningless stats can be, watch that a-hole in LA get his points, rebounds, and assists as they go 4-20 down the stretch.

  • He's got that Space Jam II, ESPN crap-isode web thing, and an HBO show though!
  • When that hypocrite said he 'stands with Kaep' he did not realize he meant duplicating his 4-20 in his last 24 games mark.
  • They can miss the playoffs for the next 5 years as long as he catches Kareem in points!

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13 minutes ago, skippyx said:

Basketball Comparison:

If you really want to see how meaningless stats can be, watch that a-hole in LA get his points, rebounds, and assists as they go 4-20 down the stretch.

  • He's got that Space Jam II, ESPN crap-isode web thing, and an HBO show though!
  • When that hypocrite said he 'stands with Kaep' he did not realize he meant duplicating his 4-20 in his last 24 games mark.
  • They can miss the playoffs for the next 5 years as long as he catches Kareem in points!

You don't have to tell me. I'm a Lakers fan and I hate LeBron lol

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First of all, you have to admit that they should have been in the Super Bowl this year.  They were flat out robbed and would have put together a much better game than the Rams did.  

Secondly, they should have played the Eagles last year in the semifinal, and they probably would have had a better go at it than the Vikes.

Neither of those two losses can be pinned on Brees.

Lastly, Brees is Not overrated. He’s the smallest QB to succeed in the NFL in a long time.  He’s got that handicap and still crushes it on the field.  This is going to go the way those "why does everyone think Terrell Owens is talented” thread, isn’t it?  

From Wiki:

Major NFL records held by Brees include:

He does what an NFL QB strives to do, put their teams in positions to win games.

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12 minutes ago, bwestbrook36 said:

You don't have to tell me. I'm a Lakers fan and I hate LeBron lol

The person who defaced those murals should go in the Basketball Hall of Fame

LeBron is the phoniest celebrity/athlete/fake activist alive.

  • He went to a team that was built to have the best small forward, power forward, and shooting guard in the league and they were the '70s Cowboys.
    • Win some lose some, meh
  • He 'Iversoned' a Cleveland team to the finals before that... one of only 2 really impressive greatness level accomplishments in his career.
  • He went back to another super team in Cleveland with Love and Kyrie on the roster.
    • They won 1 title because Kyrie hit a shot and Draymond got suspended for being a turd but sure, full marks for LeBron winning that title.
    • They were one Kyrie miss away from being the Buffalo Bills of the 90s.

ZERO titles when not on Super Teams

3-5 in the finals with Super Teams (3-6 overall)

  • He's like Brady, except way more losing and far less competition before the finals.

Why exactly do we have to worship this turd who loves himself enough for all of us?

  • Does anyone think Jordan, Barkley, and Thomas would not have won 6+ titles on a super team?
    • Oh, I forgot... Jordan won 6 titles without having to use the crutch of a Super Team.

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14 minutes ago, skippyx said:

The person who defaced those murals should go in the Basketball Hall of Fame

LeBron is the phoniest celebrity/athlete/fake activist alive.

  • He went to a team that was built to have the best small forward, power forward, and shooting guard in the league and they were the '70s Cowboys.
    • Win some lose some, meh
  • He 'Iversoned' a Cleveland team to the finals before that... one of only 2 really impressive greatness level accomplishments in his career.
  • He went back to another super team in Cleveland with Love and Kyrie on the roster.
    • They won 1 title because Kyrie hit a shot and Draymond got suspended for being a turd but sure, full marks for LeBron winning that title.
    • They were one Kyrie miss away from being the Buffalo Bills of the 90s.

ZERO titles when not on Super Teams

3-5 in the finals with Super Teams (3-6 overall)

  • He's like Brady, except way more losing and far less competition before the finals.

Why exactly do we have to worship this turd who loves himself enough for all of us?

  • Does anyone think Jordan, Barkley, and Thomas would not have won 6+ titles on a super team?
    • Oh, I forgot... Jordan won 6 titles without having to use the crutch of a Super Team.

He lost a lot of support from the greats when he proclaimed himself the greatest player of all time. If you have to tell people that yourself then you are not. IMO

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33 minutes ago, Vee said:

First of all, you have to admit that they should have been in the Super Bowl this year.  They were flat out robbed and would have put together a much better game than the Rams did.  

This is a weak sauce argument that relies on the refs ONLY having to make the right call at 1 point of the game.

  • If they call Brees for delay of game twice (once when Suh was pointing at the clock) and for the facemask on Goff then the Rams are killing the Saints at that point.
  • What about every single Rams offensive play that happened with illegal crowd noise created by 3 to 1000 whistles smuggled into the stadium?
    • This is not opinion it is fact based on audio and video evidence.
      • We got 3 confirmed on TV but whistles are like cockroaches (so are Saints fans)
      • Its insane that the Saints don't lose their 2020 first round pick over that. It was the worst case of cheating I have ever seen at a football game.
      • Goff could not hear in the huddle and had to cover his ear holes. I have never seen that before in 100 games in New Orleans.
      • This can also be easily linked as a conspiracy since Sean Payton demanded that the fans be loud in the week leading up to the NFCCG.
        • 10,000 times more proof than Deflategate
      • Even that lick spittle Mike Turico backtracked on Twitter about the turd with the cardboard hat being the cause.

I reject your argument completely. Go sell it on a Saints message board. Maybe have another protest parade.

Brees was mediocre vs the Rams (garbage in OT), he was crap early against the Eagles but got saved by 3 horrible Eagles mistakes.

  • Good for him for taking advantage but he was gifted that game

He was also terrible against the Vikings last year but a punt block and a Keenum brain-fart interception let him back in the game.

One really good playoff game since 2012, but worship away. 

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I don't think the current version of Drew Brees wins another SB.  We saw how tired he got at the end of last season - really was like two different QB's out there.

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1 hour ago, Vee said:

First of all, you have to admit that they should have been in the Super Bowl this year.  They were flat out robbed and would have put together a much better game than the Rams did.  

Secondly, they should have played the Eagles last year in the semifinal, and they probably would have had a better go at it than the Vikes.

Neither of those two losses can be pinned on Brees.

Lastly, Brees is Not overrated. He’s the smallest QB to succeed in the NFL in a long time.  He’s got that handicap and still crushes it on the field.  This is going to go the way those "why does everyone think Terrell Owens is talented” thread, isn’t it?  

From Wiki:

Major NFL records held by Brees include:

He does what an NFL QB strives to do, put their teams in positions to win games.

Prettiest 7-9 QB we’ve ever seen

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2 hours ago, Vee said:

First of all, you have to admit that they should have been in the Super Bowl this year.  They were flat out robbed and would have put together a much better game than the Rams did.  

Secondly, they should have played the Eagles last year in the semifinal, and they probably would have had a better go at it than the Vikes.

Neither of those two losses can be pinned on Brees.

Lastly, Brees is Not overrated. He’s the smallest QB to succeed in the NFL in a long time.  He’s got that handicap and still crushes it on the field.  This is going to go the way those "why does everyone think Terrell Owens is talented” thread, isn’t it?  

From Wiki:

Major NFL records held by Brees include:

He does what an NFL QB strives to do, put their teams in positions to win games.

I don’t know about this thread but they didn’t get robbed.  

They didn’t play well against the rams at all. He should’ve been picked off twice during that last drive in regulation including the blown call. Even after they get ball first in OT they failed to score a td. They scored more points in the ‘run up the score’ game vs the eagles than they did in their two playoff games combined; that’s what that POS team gets :lol:

No they shouldn’t have played the eagles in NFCCG.  Their ‘unstoppable’ offense, according to Kamara, was shut out in the first half and only started to get back into the game due to gaffes by Keenan and vikes STs. 

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2 hours ago, pisceschica said:

I don’t know about this thread but they didn’t get robbed.  

Come on.  That no call was horrible.  You can't possibly believe that.  Agreed that they did not play well, but to say they weren't robbed is poor form.

2 hours ago, pisceschica said:

They didn’t play well against the rams at all. He should’ve been picked off twice during that last drive in regulation including the blown call. Even after they get ball first in OT they failed to score a td. They scored more points in the ‘run up the score’ game vs the eagles than they did in their two playoff games combined; that’s what that POS team gets :lol:

No they shouldn’t have played the eagles in NFCCG.  Their ‘unstoppable’ offense, according to Kamara, was shut out in the first half and only started to get back into the game due to gaffes by Keenan and vikes STs. 

I'm not saying they're unstoppable, nor am I saying Brees is comparable to Brady, but he's certainly in the upper echelon of QBs.  In my book.  They guy makes it look easy.  When he's slinging the balls around, it just seems like there are more Saints out there than defensive players.

That being said, he's old, and Father Time catches up with everyone.  He may never be back again, but hell if he won't be in the conversation until the next season starts.

image.png

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8 hours ago, Vee said:

Come on.  That no call was horrible.  You can't possibly believe that.  Agreed that they did not play well, but to say they weren't robbed is poor form.

I'm not saying they're unstoppable, nor am I saying Brees is comparable to Brady, but he's certainly in the upper echelon of QBs.  In my book.  They guy makes it look easy.  When he's slinging the balls around, it just seems like there are more Saints out there than defensive players.

That being said, he's old, and Father Time catches up with everyone.  He may never be back again, but hell if he won't be in the conversation until the next season starts.

image.png

The problem is, you can’t just count calls that hurt the Saints, and ignore those that hurt the Rams. Several delays the Saints got away with, in addition to a face mask on Goff not called. These could have had an impact on the game had they been called. 

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23 hours ago, Vee said:

Come on.  That no call was horrible.  You can't possibly believe that.  Agreed that they did not play well, but to say they weren't robbed is poor form.

I'm not saying they're unstoppable, nor am I saying Brees is comparable to Brady, but he's certainly in the upper echelon of QBs.  In my book.  They guy makes it look easy.  When he's slinging the balls around, it just seems like there are more Saints out there than defensive players.

That being said, he's old, and Father Time catches up with everyone.  He may never be back again, but hell if he won't be in the conversation until the next season starts.

image.png

Yes it was a terrible no call that, but I still don’t feel they were robbed. They didn’t have a penalty called on them till third qtr. They also benefitted from no calls most notably no call facemask on Goff in previous drive. 

 After the bad call the saints defense and STs had a chance to prevent a game tying fg and didn’t. And as already stated hey got the ball to start OT and didn’t get it done. I get the call would’ve sealed a win for them but they had two chances to ovecome the no call.

I didn’t say YOU said they were unstoppable, I said according to Kamara they were unstoppable and would’ve won the SB I’d they had gotten past the vikes :rolleyes:

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On 3/10/2019 at 10:55 AM, dawkins4prez said:

Yeah, we do need this thread.  Here is the argument for Brees being nothing more than the NFL version of a texas tech stat compiler.

 

1.  When he enters the NFL HoF, which he DOES deserve btw, he will be easily the weakest Qb arm to ever enter it.  He will be the only Qb to enter the HoF with a below average NFL arm strength.  There are a few that had average arm strength like Montana and Young, heck Tom Brady is above average at best.  But Brees is slightly below and always was.  He did have an NFL arm, we aren't talking Chad Pennington, but he could just barely make all the throws and often struggled to make them in bad weather...

 

2.  He is a product of the dome.  His career stats include a 133 passer rating at home and 99 on the road.  It is 121 on turf and 79.4 on grass.  That is a HUGE difference.  Now at no point am I saying he is chopped liver outside domes, the dude would have been a franchise Qb anywhere, but a HoF Qb only in the dome.

 

3.  ...and a product of the system.  Hate him or really hate him, Sean Payton has been a cutting edge offensive designer for Drew's entire time there.  The saints have had a deep and talented receiving corp his entire time New Orleans.

 

Drew Brees is a stat compiler who despite the records will go down as a top 15-25 all time NFL Qb.  This year HE lost that NFCCG.  At 40 yrs old he has lost a tick of the quickness that allowed him to make up for his weak arm, and the arm isn't even hitting tight windows in the dome anymore.  YES, he is one of the top 5 most accurate Qb's ever, maybe even #1.  YES, he will go down as one of the smartest/coach on the field Qb's ever, probably top 10 in that category too.  But the lack of physical tools, a weak arm with little talent to make exceptional throws, coupled with limited athletic ability is the reason this guy only made 1 Sb

These are the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.

Arm strength??  LMFAO......who give a flying f--- about arm strength if the ball gets there?  His numbers speak for themselves.....if anything, you're argument proves that arm strength is a minimal concern.

Dome stats??  QBR is ridiculously inefficient measurement of a QB.......and every QB plays better in a dome and on turf.  Again, stupid argument.

And, of course, the old "product of the system" argument that's always used by morons to explain away a QBs success.

Your last paragragh is just too stupid to address.  Remember, it's better to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.  With this post, you have removed the last shred of doubt that you're an idiot.

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On 3/10/2019 at 11:40 AM, skippyx said:

Basketball Comparison:

If you really want to see how meaningless stats can be, watch that a-hole in LA get his points, rebounds, and assists as they go 4-20 down the stretch.

  • He's got that Space Jam II, ESPN crap-isode web thing, and an HBO show though!
  • When that hypocrite said he 'stands with Kaep' he did not realize he meant duplicating his 4-20 in his last 24 games mark.
  • They can miss the playoffs for the next 5 years as long as he catches Kareem in points!

LeBron might be the worst example you could use. LeBron is a 4 time season MVP and 3 time Finals MVP and has done nothing but win his entire career. 

People talk about his finals record as if it’s better to not make the Finals haha 

His personality is horrendous but that doesn’t take away from him being an absolute winner. 

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