nottingham14

I wouldn’t jump on the Daniel Jones hate train just yet

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On 4/27/2019 at 1:35 AM, nottingham14 said:

Yes I know it’s the Giants. Yes i know it’s Gettleman. I hate them too. But the Mannings have basically attached their name and cache to this guy. That gives me pause when it comes to Jones at 6.

The Manning’s have been running camps for years and this guy is the first one they’ve ran out as "their guy.” And I know people love to hate on Eli too. But this guy is attached to Peyton Manning, one of the greatest football minds we’ve seen. Jones has been breed a Peyton clone at their camp. I think they have a lot riding on this guy in terms of marketing their camps. Putting the Manning name on it is huge. Having a NFL legend graduate would be pure vindication.

I think this is why Gettleman is "in love” with this guy. I don’t buy the senior bowl crap. The Mannings have worked a deal to have Eli mentor their personally vouched for diamond in the rough that will make the GM who drafted him look like a genius. And we all know how important that is to Gettleman. 

Well that is exactly why its going to fail.  Your star players do not run your franchise.  Its a bad idea when they are in their prime like Rodgers, its  an even worse idea when they are over the hill and picking the their successor like some f'ing emperor.

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4 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

Nope, I'll leave it the way it is. Haskins will be a bust, watch. There's a reason he dropped. 

I agree with you. While I think the Giants took Jones too high, I do believe he's better than Haskins at least.

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23 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

No. But I know his B.S from Twitter

That blog has the worst collection of writers I've ever seen, but good Giants blogs are hard to find. 

4 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

Well that is exactly why its going to fail.  Your star players do not run your franchise.  Its a bad idea when they are in their prime like Rodgers, its  an even worse idea when they are over the hill and picking the their successor like some f'ing emperor.

You're smart enough to know that's not actually what happened, right? :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

That blog has the worst collection of writers I've ever seen, but good Giants blogs are hard to find. 

Yeah NJ.com is pretty bad, and an example of that is Eliot Shorr-Parks, for Eagles coverage it has gotten a little better with Rosenblatt and Kaye. Lombardo went over to cover the Giants last year. He's OK, I know he's in his glory covering Barkley, he's an alum of PSU and a major homer.

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7 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

Haskins will be a bust, watch.

But... but, Steve Smith compared him to Dan Marino on the NFL Network coverage of the draft...

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2 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

But... but, Steve Smith compared him to Dan Marino on the NFL Network coverage of the draft...

LOL I'll remember not to take Steve Smith serious again, thanks.

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11 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

No, he thinks he's the next Peyton Manning, Try to keep up, Paco!

 

🙄 in terms of his mechanics and his game. I wouldn’t say he’s Peyton. He definitely looks like a Manning the way he plays though. 

I think his arm is closer to Peyton’s than Eli’s in velocity and strength. So you can see him trying to read guys open earlier for big plays the way Peyton did. 

Peyton is a hard bar to set. I’m just saying the guy was trained by them heavily and played with scrubs. At OSU with NFL caliber WRs ala Haskins he might have been more high sought after. 

I think Haskins could develop. He’s got physical gifts in that arm and seems accurate. But he checks down a ton for a guy whose WR core had massive advantages against 90% of the defenses he played.

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9 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Well that is exactly why its going to fail.  Your star players do not run your franchise.  Its a bad idea when they are in their prime like Rodgers, its  an even worse idea when they are over the hill and picking the their successor like some f'ing emperor.

You may be right. I think Gettleman is garbage. I thought that when he was in CAR.

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5 hours ago, ShakeThatMonkey said:

LOL I'll remember not to take Steve Smith serious again, thanks.

Yeah, I just laughed when he made that comparison, and he showed both throwing a 25 or 30 yard TD pass as if to say that both can do the same things and that's proof.

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9 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

But... but, Steve Smith compared him to Dan Marino on the NFL Network coverage of the draft...

Yeah, that was a terrible comparison. Marino was a surgeon on the field. I’ve found less guys that comp. to him than anyone. 

Most guys with a good arm don’t have a quick release like Marino. I’ve only seen three guys cut the field up like Dan (Peyton and Brees). They both got weak arms and have to be accurate to be successful.

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On 4/30/2019 at 11:52 PM, nottingham14 said:

You may be right. I think Gettleman is garbage. I thought that when he was in CAR.

He is garbage and I am happy he is running the Giants. If they had someone competent running that organization they would have been a threat this year. We would have been in year 2 of Sam Darnold, with probably Nick Chubb at RB and they would have taken Josh Allen.

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2 hours ago, Pallidrone said:

He is garbage and I am happy he is running the Giants. If they had someone competent running that organization they would have been a threat this year. We would have been in year 2 of Sam Darnold, with probably Nick Chubb at RB and they would have taken Josh Allen.

What did Darnold do last year that convinced you he was going to be a pro bowl QB? 

Instead of Darnold, Chubb and Allen, we now have Jones, Barkley and Hernandez. Chubb is good, but Barkley might be the best RB in the league. Allen has big potential, but Hernandez already looks like a 10 year anchor for our offensive line. Jury is still out on Darnold and even more so for Jones. I'm not checking it off in the loss column until we see how these QBs pan out. 

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23 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

What did Darnold do last year that convinced you he was going to be a pro bowl QB? 

Instead of Darnold, Chubb and Allen, we now have Jones, Barkley and Hernandez. Chubb is good, but Barkley might be the best RB in the league. Allen has big potential, but Hernandez already looks like a 10 year anchor for our offensive line. Jury is still out on Darnold and even more so for Jones. I'm not checking it off in the loss column until we see how these QBs pan out. 

Something that somehow really went under the radar with Darnold(who I really like) last year was that right in the middle of a hard mid season slump, he got a weird foot injury in practice. Bowles claimed he could have been the emergency qb that weekend and Sam stated that his foot was not just fine but "fantastic". He was out for a month.

Even Bowles acknowledged that he kept him out an extra week so he can get more acquainted with the playbook.

Essentially, Sam got benched but nobody wanted to say it. He finished strong but everyone conveniently forgot that he was faceplanting and the media which made him a darling, didn't want to talk about it.

They were too busy screaming that Saquon was leaving too many yards on the field

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2 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

What did Darnold do last year that convinced you he was going to be a pro bowl QB? 

Instead of Darnold, Chubb and Allen, we now have Jones, Barkley and Hernandez. Chubb is good, but Barkley might be the best RB in the league. Allen has big potential, but Hernandez already looks like a 10 year anchor for our offensive line. Jury is still out on Darnold and even more so for Jones. I'm not checking it off in the loss column until we see how these QBs pan out. 

Darnold would have had a year under his belt, would have sat on the bench to learn the playbook and learn from Eli. He would have better players to throw to on the Giants then the Jets. He is also a much better prospect then Jones by miles.

It is not what he did on the Jets last year more then what he could have done on the Giants this year. The dynamic would have completely changed instead of sticking to the same ole same ole. Eli would be gone this year, OBJ probably would not have been traded because they probably would have wanted to keep him with the young signal caller and he probably would not have said there was a QB problem because there was a succession plan in place. The Giants would have been trending upwards instead of meddling around in the middle to bottom of the pack.

Barkley probably is the best RB in the league, there is no question about that. However, when was the last time a team won the Super Bowl with the 'best RB in the league'? Today's NFL is about the QB position and then how to fill around it. It is about throwing the ball on offense and attacking the QB on defense. The Giants seem to be trending in the opposite way of that and that is because Gettleman thinks it is still 1985.

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1 hour ago, Pallidrone said:

Darnold would have had a year under his belt, would have sat on the bench to learn the playbook and learn from Eli. He would have better players to throw to on the Giants then the Jets. He is also a much better prospect then Jones by miles.

It is not what he did on the Jets last year more then what he could have done on the Giants this year. The dynamic would have completely changed instead of sticking to the same ole same ole. Eli would be gone this year, OBJ probably would not have been traded because they probably would have wanted to keep him with the young signal caller and he probably would not have said there was a QB problem because there was a succession plan in place. The Giants would have been trending upwards instead of meddling around in the middle to bottom of the pack.

Barkley probably is the best RB in the league, there is no question about that. However, when was the last time a team won the Super Bowl with the 'best RB in the league'? Today's NFL is about the QB position and then how to fill around it. It is about throwing the ball on offense and attacking the QB on defense. The Giants seem to be trending in the opposite way of that and that is because Gettleman thinks it is still 1985.

If they drafted Darnold who's to say he wouldn't have sat on the bench for a year? The Giants don't seem eager to get rid of Eli. Chances are this would have been Darnold's rookie year. I think there's a better chance Jones plays this year than Darnold playing last year since Eli is at the end of his contract. 

I'm happy OBJ is gone. When was the last time the best WR in the league won a SB? They're going to use the money saved towards building other areas of the team. 

I agree, today's NFL is about throwing the football. Good thing Barkely is also the best pass catching RB in the league. People keep saying you don't build around a RB, but guys like Barkley, Gurley, Zeke, etc. are a different breed of back. I personally thing the league is trending more towards these hybrid players.  

All this said, yes the rebuild depends on Jones turning into an above average QB. It's a risk, but I disagree that they are trending in the wrong direction. The Giants roster is now full of young, talented players from the past two drafts and they are about to step into a ton of cap space by getting rid of overrated vets. This will have long term impact and this has been a proper rebuild. One that's not centered around a wide receiver.

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24 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

If they drafted Darnold who's to say he wouldn't have sat on the bench for a year? The Giants don't seem eager to get rid of Eli. Changes are this would have been Darnold's rookie year. I think there's a better chance Jones plays this year than Darnold playing last year since Eli is at the end of his contract. 

I'm happy OBJ is gone. When was the last time the best WR in the league won a SB? They're going to use the money saved towards building other areas of the team. 

I agree, today's NFL is about throwing the football. Good thing Barkely is also the best pass catching RB in the league. People keep saying you don't build around a RB, but guys like Barkley, Gurley, Zeke, etc. are a different breed of back. I personally thing the league is trending more towards these hybrid players.  

All this said, yes the rebuild depends on Jones turning into an above average QB. It's a risk, but I disagree that they are trending in the wrong direction. The Giants roster is now full of young talented players from the past two drafts and they are about to step into a ton of cap space by getting rid of overrated vets. That will all have long term impact. 

I neglected to say that as part of the point - Darnold would have rode the pine, learned the playbook and practiced behind Eli ready to take the reigns over this year.It would have been a good thing for him. I think that all QBs should sit on the bench for a year and the Eagles should have done that with Wentz even with shipping Bradford out of town.

You say that now about OBJ, but coming from an Eagles fan who has seen absolutely trash at the WR position for years, you may be wishing that they never shipped him out. He was a baby but he was also very good. He made other players better just by being on the field. The Giants are going to miss that part of him (but definitely not the diva part).

Look you gotta believe in your team otherwise what is the point in rooting for them, but from this vantage point I think that Gettleman is a fool that is going to make the Giants bottom feeders for years to come. I really dont know how you go from Young to Accorsi to Reese (who I think is really underrated by Giants fans - yeah he had his issues and McAdoo was an abject failure but he did deliver 2 Super Bowls and had some decent picks along the way) to this clown.

 

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1 hour ago, Pallidrone said:

I neglected to say that as part of the point - Darnold would have rode the pine, learned the playbook and practiced behind Eli ready to take the reigns over this year.It would have been a good thing for him. I think that all QBs should sit on the bench for a year and the Eagles should have done that with Wentz even with shipping Bradford out of town.

You say that now about OBJ, but coming from an Eagles fan who has seen absolutely trash at the WR position for years, you may be wishing that they never shipped him out. He was a baby but he was also very good. He made other players better just by being on the field. The Giants are going to miss that part of him (but definitely not the diva part).

Look you gotta believe in your team otherwise what is the point in rooting for them, but from this vantage point I think that Gettleman is a fool that is going to make the Giants bottom feeders for years to come. I really dont know how you go from Young to Accorsi to Reese (who I think is really underrated by Giants fans - yeah he had his issues and McAdoo was an abject failure but he did deliver 2 Super Bowls and had some decent picks along the way) to this clown.

 

Do you think the Eagles would have won the Super Bowl in 2017 if Wentz hadn't played as a rookie the year before? That he'd have come in without any experience and led the team to an 11-2 start?

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He is the Jon Harris of QBs. (tall and large and untalented)

He would have been a decent 3rd round prospect with a high bust failure probability.

As it stands he has a chance to be one of the 50 worst draft picks of all-time.

 

 

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I am fine with Saquon over Darnold last year.

That is no excuse to draft a worse version of Brady Quinn/Dave Brown 25-65 picks too soon.

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On 4/27/2019 at 3:27 AM, nottingham14 said:

🤦🏻‍♂️ I didn’t say he was the GM. He’s personally trained this guy with Cudcliff. Watch the guy play. It’s like watching Peyton out there. 

That's a bold statement without any NFL games having been played.  Time will tell whether Jones has a good career, but calling him Peyton without playing a down is a bit much.

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Daniel Jones TD-INT at Duke 2016-2018  -  52 TDs 29 picks

  • The rest of his team over those seasons -  13 TDs 2 picks
  • Maybe they only used the bad O-line for Jones?

I think Cutcliffe may have lost his teaching edge... that or Jones is in no way special.

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26 minutes ago, skippyx said:

Daniel Jones TD-INT at Duke 2016-2018  -  52 TDs 29 picks

  • The rest of his team over those seasons -  13 TDs 2 picks
  • Maybe they only used the bad O-line for Jones?

I think Cutcliffe may have lost his teaching edge... that or Jones is in no way special.

I have no clue how good Jones will be because I’ve only seen highlights. The same goes for you and everyone else on this board. In situations like this it’s best to reserve judgment until you’ve actually seen the kid play or risk looking very silly. 

Your comment about him being one of the 50 worst picks is absurd. There’s been hundreds of top 10 busts over the years and many of them were QBs. On top of that, the Giants didn’t trade assets to move into the 6th spot. There’s been teams that have traded up just to draft a bust. Those are biggest disasters. 

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5 hours ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

Do you think the Eagles would have won the Super Bowl in 2017 if Wentz hadn't played as a rookie the year before? That he'd have come in without any experience and led the team to an 11-2 start?

That is a lot of speculation. Do you think that Wentz would have led the Eagles to a Super Bowl win if he stayed healthy? Would they have responded that same being the lead dog instead of the underdog that drove them during the entire playoffs? I do think that he is very talented and still would have led the team quite well if not better.

I think that Wentz would have benefited from sitting on the bench and watching for most if not all of his rookie season. Sometimes he plays like he has to be Superman and try to make the big play instead of taking what is in front of him. That habit may not be there if he was watching someone and things were pointed out to him during the season, instead of being thrust into this role as the franchise QB.

 

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17 hours ago, Pallidrone said:

I neglected to say that as part of the point - Darnold would have rode the pine, learned the playbook and practiced behind Eli ready to take the reigns over this year.It would have been a good thing for him. I think that all QBs should sit on the bench for a year and the Eagles should have done that with Wentz even with shipping Bradford out of town.

You say that now about OBJ, but coming from an Eagles fan who has seen absolutely trash at the WR position for years, you may be wishing that they never shipped him out. He was a baby but he was also very good. He made other players better just by being on the field. The Giants are going to miss that part of him (but definitely not the diva part).

Look you gotta believe in your team otherwise what is the point in rooting for them, but from this vantage point I think that Gettleman is a fool that is going to make the Giants bottom feeders for years to come. I really dont know how you go from Young to Accorsi to Reese (who I think is really underrated by Giants fans - yeah he had his issues and McAdoo was an abject failure but he did deliver 2 Super Bowls and had some decent picks along the way) to this clown.

 

Receivers don't translate to wins. Everyone has jumped the "running backs don't matter" narrative while at the same time ignoring the lack of success that all-time talents regularly have in this league like Megatron, Fitz, Andre Johnson, AJ Green, Julio, Antonio, etc. really haven't won all that much. They're all over highlight reels though so every time we see them, they're either making a great play or in the end zone. 

For the about 90% of the last 20 years, the Eagles have had at the very least, a decent offensive line. With the exception of from 2007-2010, and perhaps 2000, the Giants offensive line has been mostly garbage. Nothing like seeing your team's offensive line get pushed back on every other play.

Gettleman was 2nd in command during those 2 super bowls and Reese's (I was Jerry's last defender on here) drafts took a noticeable dive after he split for Carolina. Not long after, the Panthers were in the Super Bowl but Gettleman wasnt beloved by long time overpaid aging fan favorite veterans that refused paycuts so he was fired.

The Giants have been bottom feeders for bulk of the last decade. If not for Eli throwing the team on his back and carrying them through 2011, house would have been cleaned 5+ years ago.

I don't like Gettleman. Especially the way he handles the media. When it comes to press conferences, he needs to consult JR. Still, those claiming the Gettleman, who in a year and half has already, rebuilt both sides of the trenches, grabbed the best back in the game, got the QB of the future, and set the team up to be expecting well over $60+ mill in cap space next offseason, is doing everything wrong and turning a team with just 1 playoff appearance since 2011 a bottom feeder is asinine.

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PFF is just another opinion, but they factor in O-line (bad) and drops (2nd worst in college) and still had Jones as a 3rd round pick who was likely to be over-drafted.

Its amazing that the Giants have a QB that has been horrendous against the Eagles the last 12 games or so and they just got worse.

He was also crap at the Senior Bowl where Duke's receivers and line played no part.

On top of that, he was abysmally pathetic in the rain vs Miami so maybe he needs to be a dome guy. That will work out well in New York.

I LOVE THIS PICK SO MUCH!

Bonus points:  Over-drafting an 85% probable bust at QB 6th overall in round 1 allowed Haskins, Sweat, and Dillard to fall into place for the Giants rivals.

On top of that, the Giants now go into 2019 with a pass rush that looks like the 2018 Raiders.

It was more important to them to reach for a bum who may sit for 2 years then take one of the first 14 or so edge rushers in this draft.

 

Cutcliffe Pedigree?

Look at Jeff Tedford for reference (he coached 2 Super Bowl winners in college)

  • Aaron Rodgers
  • Trent Dilfer
  • Akili Smith
  • Joey Harrington
  • David Carr

What kind of clown would think all these guys have to be great because they had the same coach?

 

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