nottingham14

I wouldn’t jump on the Daniel Jones hate train just yet

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13 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

I have no clue how good Jones will be because I’ve only seen highlights. The same goes for you and everyone else on this board. In situations like this it’s best to reserve judgment until you’ve actually seen the kid play or risk looking very silly. 

Your comment about him being one of the 50 worst picks is absurd. There’s been hundreds of top 10 busts over the years and many of them were QBs. On top of that, the Giants didn’t trade assets to move into the 6th spot. There’s been teams that have traded up just to draft a bust. Those are biggest disasters. 

I don't think you get the nuance of just how bad this pick was.

  • Jon Harris was a top 50 worst draft pick of all time.
    • This is not just because he was a bust, he was also a 3rd to 5th round pick that smart guy Ray Rhodes reached for.

Draft picks have value. The number 6 has way more than the number 17

  • If you trade down from 6 to 12 and pick up a 3rd and a 5th then you have Jones and 2 more prospects.

Jones may be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Dave Brown, or Kirk Cousins ( I am leaning towards Akili Smith) but that's just the player.

  • There is also the draft capital factor and the Giants blew a chance to get a top 6 player with real impact for their franchise.
    • Gettleman knew NOTHING about other teams boards except what they wanted the press to know
    • Pretending the Broncos, Dolphins or DC wanted Jones before 17 or in round 1 at all is just distraction from an awful decision.
  • Don't forget the salary cap.
    • Josh Allen at #7 last year got 5.3 million a year
    • Josh Rosen 3 slots lower got 4.4 million a year.
    • Lamar Jackson at the end of round 1 got 2.4 million
  • The Giants lost about 1.2 to 3.4 million a year in salary cap by over-drafting this guy
    • 5.5 to 6 million a year for a guy who is a zero in 2019 and may be a zero in 2020 as well

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52 minutes ago, skippyx said:

I don't think you get the nuance of just how bad this pick was.

  • Jon Harris was a top 50 worst draft pick of all time.
    • This is not just because he was a bust, he was also a 3rd to 5th round pick that smart guy Ray Rhodes reached for.

Draft picks have value. The number 6 has way more than the number 17

  • If you trade down from 6 to 12 and pick up a 3rd and a 5th then you have Jones and 2 more prospects.

Jones may be the next Akili Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Dave Brown, or Kirk Cousins ( I am leaning towards Akili Smith) but that's just the player.

  • There is also the draft capital factor and the Giants blew a chance to get a top 6 player with real impact for their franchise.
    • Gettleman knew NOTHING about other teams boards except what they wanted the press to know
    • Pretending the Broncos, Dolphins or DC wanted Jones before 17 or in round 1 at all is just distraction from an awful decision.
  • Don't forget the salary cap.
    • Josh Allen at #7 last year got 5.3 million a year
    • Josh Rosen 3 slots lower got 4.4 million a year.
    • Lamar Jackson at the end of round 1 got 2.4 million
  • The Giants lost about 1.2 to 3.4 million a year in salary cap by over-drafting this guy
    • 5.5 to 6 million a year for a guy who is a zero in 2019 and may be a zero in 2020 as well

All that doesn't mean anything if Daniel Jones becomes a franchise QB

If Daniel Jones busts, then it goes down as an historically bad pick.

We won't know for about 4 years

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1 hour ago, skippyx said:

PFF is just another opinion, but they factor in O-line (bad) and drops (2nd worst in college) and still had Jones as a 3rd round pick who was likely to be over-drafted.

Its amazing that the Giants have a QB that has been horrendous against the Eagles the last 12 games or so and they just got worse.

He was also crap at the Senior Bowl where Duke's receivers and line played no part.

On top of that, he was abysmally pathetic in the rain vs Miami so maybe he needs to be a dome guy. That will work out well in New York.

I LOVE THIS PICK SO MUCH!

Bonus points:  Over-drafting an 85% probable bust at QB 6th overall in round 1 allowed Haskins, Sweat, and Dillard to fall into place for the Giants rivals.

On top of that, the Giants now go into 2019 with a pass rush that looks like the 2018 Raiders.

It was more important to them to reach for a bum who may sit for 2 years then take one of the first 14 or so edge rushers in this draft.

 

Cutcliffe Pedigree?

Look at Jeff Tedford for reference (he coached 2 Super Bowl winners in college)

  • Aaron Rodgers
  • Trent Dilfer
  • Akili Smith
  • Joey Harrington
  • David Carr

What kind of clown would think all these guys have to be great because they had the same coach?

 

FYI: you pretty much killed your own post by saying DJ was crap in the Senior Bowl when he was actually MVP.

I didn't like the pick but people acting like they know how he's gonna be after 4 years in the NFL are absolutely lying out of their a**. 

Nearly half of the 2016 draft class didn't have their options picked up. That means regardless of position, you're looking at almost a 50% bust rate in the 1st round.

Who gives a rats arse about "draft value" when the guy you picked can't play?

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Just now, boogyman said:

joker_eatin_popcorn_by_capnectoplasm-d39sa07_1.gif

^This is exactly what all of us should be doing for at least 2 years in regards to the 2019 draft. 

Leave it to idiots to go by what "experts" who are regularly wrong say and make concrete conclusions based on them.

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58 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

^This is exactly what all of us should be doing for at least 2 years in regards to the 2019 draft. 

Leave it to idiots to go by what "experts" who are regularly wrong say and make concrete conclusions based on them.

Oh he is gonna suck. He is more than a few tools short. The popcorn is for the thread. 

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24 minutes ago, boogyman said:

Oh he is gonna suck. He is more than a few tools short. The popcorn is for the thread. 

Is that you joking about not understanding the "all the tools" phrase again? 

Something tells me you either really don't understand what that actually means because you keep harping on it 

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This is a pretty easy game to play. 

Haskins, he’s definitely gonna suck. 90% chance. 

Sweat, he’s probably gonna suck. 60% chance. 

Dillard, he’s most likely going to suck AND the Eagles traded two draft picks to move up and get him. 70% chance. 

None of these guys have much of a chance to succeed in the NFL. 

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2 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

Is that you joking about not understanding the "all the tools" phrase again? 

Something tells me you either really don't understand what that actually means because you keep harping on it 

Lets say Webb threw a football 150 mph...and you said he had a rocket arm and the Giants cut him just like they did. And I made a bunch of rocket arm comments, would you really think I didnt believe he had a very strong arm even though he threw a football 150mph?

51 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

This is a pretty easy game to play. 

Haskins, he’s definitely gonna suck. 90% chance. 

Sweat, he’s probably gonna suck. 60% chance. 

Dillard, he’s most likely going to suck AND the Eagles traded two draft picks to move up and get him. 70% chance. 

None of these guys have much of a chance to succeed in the NFL. 

If Dillards chances of sucking are 70 percent than Daniel is at 99.9

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Just now, boogyman said:

Lets say Webb threw a football 150 mph...and you said he had a rocket arm and the Giants cut him just like they did. And I made a bunch of rocket arm comments, would you really think I didnt believe he had a very strong arm even though he threw a football 150mph?

Saying it once or twice shortly after the fact for a few understandable jabs and laughing it off is one thing. That I get. 

Going on and on about it long after is another. Either you dont get that the joke is no longer funny or you're claiming you're joking now as a cover.

Either way... 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, vincent_NJG said:

Saying it once or twice shortly after the fact for a few understandable jabs and laughing it off is one thing. That I get. 

Going on and on about it long after is another. Either you dont get that the joke is no longer funny or you're claiming you're joking now as a cover.

Either way...

You fool! Boogy is a meme guy. A jokester. An R&R member. Not a football guy. Why are you falling for his boogie traps (pun intended)? 

Skippy on the other hand is dead serious when he makes this sheet up. It’s equally comical. 

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Just now, BKLYNYG said:

You fool! Boogy is a meme guy. A jokester. An R&R member. Not a football guy. Why are you falling for his boogie traps (pun intended)? 

Skippy on the other hand is dead serious when he makes this sheet up. It’s equally comical. 

That's fine. I'll guess I'll just chalk it up to him being one of those guys who thinks he's funny but no one wants to tell him he's not. I'll be sure to pay him no mind when he says anything remotely serious sounding regarding football.

Skippy relies way way way too much on analytics, numbers, and such. Gettleman is a real piece of work but I can see now really see why he mocked the analytical types last year with the imaginary laptop.

At the end of the day, that high pick that busted wasn't a bad pick because you took him high, it was a bad pick because he couldn't play.

The Raiders took Janikowski in the 1st. Say what you want but for 15 years, the Raiders had all kinds of things to worry about but a kicker wasn't one.

The Bucs took a kicker in the 2nd and caught all sorts of hell for it. As it turned out, it was a horrible pick. Not because of where Roberto Agyauyo was taken but because he was a good awful kicker.

Jerry Reese used to get all kinds of praise by the "experts" for landing so called steals based on analytics like Jayron Hoseley, Marvin Austin, Damontre Moore, Phillip Dillard, James Brewer, Jerrel Jernigan, Odigizuwa, etc. How'd all that work out?

Can the guy play? At the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

 

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5 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

That's fine. I'll guess I'll just chalk it up to him being one of those guys who thinks he's funny but no one wants to tell him he's not. I'll be sure to pay him no mind when he says anything remotely serious sounding regarding football.

Skippy relies way way way too much on analytics, numbers, and such. Gettleman is a real piece of work but I can see now really see why he mocked the analytical types last year with the imaginary laptop.

At the end of the day, that high pick that busted wasn't a bad pick because you took him high, it was a bad pick because he couldn't play.

The Raiders took Janikowski in the 1st. Say what you want but for 15 years, the Raiders had all kinds of things to worry about but a kicker wasn't one.

The Bucs took a kicker in the 2nd and caught all sorts of hell for it. As it turned out, it was a horrible pick. Not because of where Roberto Agyauyo was taken but because he was a good awful kicker.

Jerry Reese used to get all kinds of praise by the "experts" for landing so called steals based on analytics like Jayron Hoseley, Marvin Austin, Damontre Moore, Phillip Dillard, James Brewer, Jerrel Jernigan, Odigizuwa, etc. How'd all that work out?

Can the guy play? At the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

 

You get really mad at this stuff dont you?

23 minutes ago, vincent_NJG said:

Saying it once or twice shortly after the fact for a few understandable jabs and laughing it off is one thing. That I get. 

Going on and on about it long after is another. Either you dont get that the joke is no longer funny or you're claiming you're joking now as a cover.

Either way... 

 

 

 

👍

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19 minutes ago, BKLYNYG said:

You fool! Boogy is a meme guy. A jokester. An R&R member. Not a football guy. Why are you falling for his boogie traps (pun intended)? 

 

I rarely post in R&R. I prefer the humor to be football related, not a bunch of gay and your mom jokes.

 

 

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On 5/3/2019 at 8:20 PM, skippyx said:

Daniel Jones TD-INT at Duke 2016-2018  -  52 TDs 29 picks

  • The rest of his team over those seasons -  13 TDs 2 picks
  • Maybe they only used the bad O-line for Jones?

I think Cutcliffe may have lost his teaching edge... that or Jones is in no way special.

Stats can be deceiving. He didn’t have near the skill level of WRs around him. 

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LOL More Giants fans BS .... they are trying to their best to justify this Jones pick.  Hell I didnt even know Duke had a football team  :D  Dotn they have good hoops program :D .  So the Manning brothers vouch for him ...... Same POS brothers , that whine and pout to force a trade, selll fake goods , use HGH, whips D out in front of girls because of entitlement. Maybe they want to screw over Giants for all the ELI bs past few years ... liek messing up his perfect games starting record ?  Who knows the truth ..... but dont act like its not a long shot that was drafted 50 picks too early . 

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7 hours ago, nottingham14 said:

Stats can be deceiving. He didn’t have near the skill level of WRs around him. 

So this expert QB guru taught him how to play QB with a bad O-line and a crew of horrible WRs?

How exactly did he learn anything but how to be a bad QB?

Why was he terrible at the Senior Bowl practices?

Josh Allen was intriguing because he was a bad college QB with a rocket arm.

Daniel Jones is like Josh Allen with a mediocre arm.

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On 5/4/2019 at 10:31 AM, vincent_NJG said:

FYI: you pretty much killed your own post by saying DJ was crap in the Senior Bowl when he was actually MVP.

I didn't like the pick but people acting like they know how he's gonna be after 4 years in the NFL are absolutely lying out of their a**. 

Nearly half of the 2016 draft class didn't have their options picked up. That means regardless of position, you're looking at almost a 50% bust rate in the 1st round.

Who gives a rats arse about "draft value" when the guy you picked can't play?

The irony that the guy who hates stats is relying on a flea flicker and a few check downs and roll outs in an All-Star game over 3 years in college. 😃

I stand by my story that this is one of my favorite non-Eagles draft picks of all-time.

On a scale of one to ten it was a negative four.

The entire football world is still laughing at Gettleman.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/what-we-learned-about-every-senior-bowl-quarterback

Jones struggled in practice. Falling victim to several interceptions, Jones had a difficult time working through his progressions and the lack of zip on his passes was evident. By the end of the week, it felt like he was pressing. There were a lot of parallels between what we saw from Jones during the week of Senior Bowl practice and that of Easton Stick last week at Shrine Game.

As evidenced by his MVP Honors, Jones had some success in the game. His dual-threat ability was on display on his touchdown run while he also completed 8-of-11 passes for 115 yards and a touchdown. But the stats don't tell the story.

Jones feasted on schemed throws and roll out passes that condensed the field and simplified what was on his plate. His longest completion came on a flea-flicker, while he hit check downs and flat passes primarily with his other tosses. When tasked with surveying the field and going beyond his first option, the lack of comfort was again evident.

From people I have spoken to, I understand the NFL likes Jones. He draws rave reviews regarding his intangibles and being David Cutcliffe's understudy helps. With that said, I don't see a first-round quarterback. We know what one of those looks like and Jones misses the mark. He hurt his chances this week.

 

More:

https://thespun.com/football/nfl-draft-analyst-duke-qb-daniel-jones-struggled-today

https://www.bigblueview.com/2019/1/27/18199315/senior-bowl-quarterback-recap-daniel-jones-drew-lock

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/27/18518429/daniel-jones-giants-pick-senior-bowl-mvp-dave-gettleman-no

 

You can double down on stupid all day long if you like but it does not change reality... this QB sucks.

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6 hours ago, skippyx said:

The irony that the guy who hates stats is relying on a flea flicker and a few check downs and roll outs in an All-Star game over 3 years in college. 😃

I stand by my story that this is one of my favorite non-Eagles draft picks of all-time.

On a scale of one to ten it was a negative four.

The entire football world is still laughing at Gettleman.

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/what-we-learned-about-every-senior-bowl-quarterback

Jones struggled in practice. Falling victim to several interceptions, Jones had a difficult time working through his progressions and the lack of zip on his passes was evident. By the end of the week, it felt like he was pressing. There were a lot of parallels between what we saw from Jones during the week of Senior Bowl practice and that of Easton Stick last week at Shrine Game.

As evidenced by his MVP Honors, Jones had some success in the game. His dual-threat ability was on display on his touchdown run while he also completed 8-of-11 passes for 115 yards and a touchdown. But the stats don't tell the story.

Jones feasted on schemed throws and roll out passes that condensed the field and simplified what was on his plate. His longest completion came on a flea-flicker, while he hit check downs and flat passes primarily with his other tosses. When tasked with surveying the field and going beyond his first option, the lack of comfort was again evident.

From people I have spoken to, I understand the NFL likes Jones. He draws rave reviews regarding his intangibles and being David Cutcliffe's understudy helps. With that said, I don't see a first-round quarterback. We know what one of those looks like and Jones misses the mark. He hurt his chances this week.

 

More:

https://thespun.com/football/nfl-draft-analyst-duke-qb-daniel-jones-struggled-today

https://www.bigblueview.com/2019/1/27/18199315/senior-bowl-quarterback-recap-daniel-jones-drew-lock

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/4/27/18518429/daniel-jones-giants-pick-senior-bowl-mvp-dave-gettleman-no

 

You can double down on stupid all day long if you like but it does not change reality... this QB sucks.

I'm not relying on a damn thing. I just pointed out that you said he sucked in a game where he was voted MVP which doesn't help your claim.

I personally didn't like the pick. I loved Haskins and had Jones ranked behind Haskins and Lock. To me, Jones lacks the arm required for MetLife and will probably be Alex Smith but there's the "experts" and fans and then there's the NFL scouting/personnel departments.

In truth, we won't know if the pick was bad or good until at least 3-4 years from now.

Eli's 1st 3 starts were the worst statistically in NFL history. Hell, in his first day of rookie minicamp, he was so awful that he actually hit a tackling dummy with a pass.

The 2007 holidays were full of people saying they were thankful that the Giants traded the farm to draft a bust. That it was a Christmas miracle how the Chargers fleeced them. 3 pro bowlers in exchange for a bum who will never win anything.

We don't know. Whether you want to admit it or not, nobody knows and pumping out articles of other people who don't know isn't helping your claim.

Ive been on the Haskins bandwagon since October and by no means have on boarded the Jones bandwagon but I'm smart enough to know that no one really knows where either one is going to end up. Only an idiot would claim otherwise

 

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10 hours ago, NE.Jon said:

LOL More Giants fans BS .... they are trying to their best to justify this Jones pick.  Hell I didnt even know Duke had a football team  :D  Dotn they have good hoops program :D .  So the Manning brothers vouch for him ...... Same POS brothers , that whine and pout to force a trade, selll fake goods , use HGH, whips D out in front of girls because of entitlement. Maybe they want to screw over Giants for all the ELI bs past few years ... liek messing up his perfect games starting record ?  Who knows the truth ..... but dont act like its not a long shot that was drafted 50 picks too early . 

Read every single post from Giants fans after the draft. All of us said the same thing, this was a reach and we would have drafted Allen instead. No one is denying that (I think the combination of Allen and Lawrence would have been deadly on the DL). What we're not stupid enough to do is declare the guys career over before he throws a single pass in the NFL or believe the Manning family forced this decision. That level of stupid is reserved for Eagles fans. 

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1 hour ago, BKLYNYG said:

Read every single post from Giants fans after the draft. All of us said the same thing, this was a reach and we would have drafted Allen instead. No one is denying that (I think the combination of Allen and Lawrence would have been deadly on the DL). What we're not stupid enough to do is declare the guys career over before he throws a single pass in the NFL or believe the Manning family forced this decision. That level of stupid is reserved for Eagles fans. 

Justifying a pick is what we saw here some years ago when Chip Kelly took Marcus Smith and for about 2 years we heard about a great an athlete he was from those who didn't have any idea of who he even was until after the draft. When it was pointed out that he barely touched the field and that never being in the game wasn't exactly the best sign for an ultra athletic edge rusher, it was explained that it wasn't his fault. That it's only because the Eagles defense and special teams were just so absolutely loaded, left to right, top to bottom, that there simply wasn't room for him.

So apparently, there was zero need for the guy as everyone on D/STs were far and away better than him but we were all still lectured for over a year on here that he was a great pick.

"in Chip we Trust"

The amount of amnesia we see anymore is incredible

 

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2 hours ago, vincent_NJG said:

Justifying a pick is what we saw here some years ago when Chip Kelly took Marcus Smith and for about 2 years we heard about a great an athlete he was from those who didn't have any idea of who he even was until after the draft. When it was pointed out that he barely touched the field and that never being in the game wasn't exactly the best sign for an ultra athletic edge rusher, it was explained that it wasn't his fault. That it's only because the Eagles defense and special teams were just so absolutely loaded, left to right, top to bottom, that there simply wasn't room for him.

So apparently, there was zero need for the guy as everyone on D/STs were far and away better than him but we were all still lectured for over a year on here that he was a great pick.

"in Chip we Trust"

The amount of amnesia we see anymore is incredible

 

I would like to know who on here said any of that about Marcus Smith. I would put them on ignore from here on out lol

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55 minutes ago, bwestbrook36 said:

I would like to know who on here said any of that about Marcus Smith. I would put them on ignore from here on out lol

Perhaps Marcus Smith’s mom posted here. I dunno. 

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6 hours ago, BKLYNYG said:

Read every single post from Giants fans after the draft. All of us said the same thing, this was a reach and we would have drafted Allen instead. No one is denying that (I think the combination of Allen and Lawrence would have been deadly on the DL). What we're not stupid enough to do is declare the guys career over before he throws a single pass in the NFL or believe the Manning family forced this decision. That level of stupid is reserved for Eagles fans. 

Let's be honest, plenty of Giants fans have said and believed the exact same 2 things you just posted. I just read a thread on a Giants board talking about how Jones was asked to work out at TE at the combine because a team didnt think he should even attempt QB in the NFL. So to say its reserved for Eagles fans is very incorrect. 

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30 minutes ago, boogyman said:

Let's be honest, plenty of Giants fans have said and believed the exact same 2 things you just posted. I just read a thread on a Giants board talking about how Jones was asked to work out at TE at the combine because a team didnt think he should even attempt QB in the NFL. So to say its reserved for Eagles fans is very incorrect. 

Mehta Manish reported that and it's already getting dismissed as pure bs 

Seriously, what NFL scouting department looks at a lanky sub 230lbs white dude QB who is a good not great athlete and thinks "Gee, maybe he would make a great tight end"?

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