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Dak vs Carson

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5 minutes ago, heavywchamp said:

I know. whining for no reason 

Here is an example from the game day thread...he felt the need to pump up the Giants and downplay Washington for no reason, only because we played the Skins and their opponent was NY.

"Giants are better then Washington. Barkley is amazing by himself. Washington was missing some pieces but division games are tough. "

 

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Hey I just call it like I see it.

i have stated a number of times that I like Wentz. I posted that I would like to hunt with him. The fact is that Dallas QB’s do catch a lot of grief but that’s just part of the job. Dak doesn’t care because Dallas QB’s also get big endorsements. I will say that a lot of the bad press Dallas gets is their own doing. Way to many suspensions and off the field problems. I blame the front office and Garrett for these issues. They have to stop giving these guys passes when they pull this stuff. 

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I don't think it is Dak Who? anymore. He is lighting it up . As much as I hate them. I believe Dallas is better than us.Better defense, offense better. What a Beast Jaylon Smith is. Wow what a call on taking the right hurt player. Why do we keep getting injury after injury? Also I really go not believe Carson will make it through the whole season...I even think he played hurt yesterday. What a shame.

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Wentz is great, but I’m not sure how anyone that watched that game last night would think he’s going to have a long career. His ability to extend plays is a blessing and a curse. 

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2 hours ago, nicks said:

I don't think it is Dak Who? anymore. He is lighting it up . As much as I hate them. I believe Dallas is better than us.Better defense, offense better. What a Beast Jaylon Smith is. Wow what a call on taking the right hurt player. Why do we keep getting injury after injury? Also I really go not believe Carson will make it through the whole season...I even think he played hurt yesterday. What a shame.

Dak is the 2 week mvp and after he faces a ANOTHER bottom 5 team next week at home v.s. Miami, he will definitely still be the week 3 MVP.

 

They can have that, last night Wentz showed why he is more special than any other young Qb except Mahomes.

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1 hour ago, dawkins4prez said:

Dak is the 2 week mvp and after he faces a ANOTHER bottom 5 team next week at home v.s. Miami, he will definitely still be the week 3 MVP.

 

They can have that, last night Wentz showed why he is more special than any other young Qb except Mahomes.

Wentz was bad for 2½ quarters and pulled out an OK performance for the remainder of the game.  Don't get real carried away here.  Wentz is good.  He is not elite and I personally don't think he ever will be.  I don't think the poor guy will ever be able to stay healthy enough to reach that status.  Teams with elite QB's protect them.  They put them in a position to be successful.  So far you guys have failed to do so with Wentz.

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12 minutes ago, Hefty Smurf said:

Wentz was bad for 2½ quarters and pulled out an OK performance for the remainder of the game.  Don't get real carried away here.  Wentz is good.  He is not elite and I personally don't think he ever will be.  I don't think the poor guy will ever be able to stay healthy enough to reach that status.  Teams with elite QB's protect them.  They put them in a position to be successful.  So far you guys have failed to do so with Wentz.

If there is one thing I have absolutely ZERO doubt about, it's that if Dak had been in that building against that D flying around the way it was, and down Gallup/Cooper/Jarwin in the 1st qtr, he would have totally and completely caved.  No doubt in my mind and I am about as bullish on Dak as anyone in here.

 

What Carson did in that 2nd half is something only elite Qb's can do.

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3 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

If there is one thing I have absolutely ZERO doubt about, it's that if Dak had been in that building against that D flying around the way it was, and down Gallup/Cooper/Jarwin in the 1st qtr, he would have totally and completely caved.  No doubt in my mind and I am about as bullish on Dak as anyone in here.

 

What Carson did in that 2nd half is something only elite Qb's can do.

I agree with 95% of the things you say on here, but we are going to have to agree to disagree here.  I am sorry I see Wentz being good, but i just don't see elite.

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4 minutes ago, Hefty Smurf said:

I agree with 95% of the things you say on here, but we are going to have to agree to disagree here.  I am sorry I see Wentz being good, but i just don't see elite.

I don't think he is Mahomes/Rodgers.  I think he is the second coming of Big Ben, injuries and all (less rape-y).

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17 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

If there is one thing I have absolutely ZERO doubt about, it's that if Dak had been in that building against that D flying around the way it was, and down Gallup/Cooper/Jarwin in the 1st qtr, he would have totally and completely caved.  No doubt in my mind and I am about as bullish on Dak as anyone in here.

 

What Carson did in that 2nd half is something only elite Qb's can do.

I don't disagree with the bold, but Wentz wouldn't of needed to be a hero if he shows up the first quarter. Same deal against the Redskins. As much as we like to glamorize end game heroics.. and by all accounts Wentz did pretty much as much as he could, not withstanding a game winning TD drop by Agholor and Ertz running short of the sticks.. but if he plays a more complete game that last drive could of been one to either milk the clock or get a much more makeable game winning field goal. 

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10 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

I don't think he is Mahomes/Rodgers.  I think he is the second coming of Big Ben, injuries and all (less rape-y).

Don't get me wrong.  I don't put last night on Wentz.  I don't think he helped the situation in the 1st half, but he is far from the reason you guys lost.  From an outside perspective you guys have a serious play calling issue and an identity crises.  You go out and trade for Jordan Howard, spend a high pick on another RB, and bring back Sproles in an effort to help Carson and establish the run only to give up on it 1 quarter in.  I don't know that Doug or any other coach knows exactly what this team is at the moment.  You guys have a team full of weapons that no one can figure out how to use.

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1 hour ago, Hefty Smurf said:

Don't get me wrong.  I don't put last night on Wentz.  I don't think he helped the situation in the 1st half, but he is far from the reason you guys lost.  From an outside perspective you guys have a serious play calling issue and an identity crises.  You go out and trade for Jordan Howard, spend a high pick on another RB, and bring back Sproles in an effort to help Carson and establish the run only to give up on it 1 quarter in.  I don't know that Doug or any other coach knows exactly what this team is at the moment.  You guys have a team full of weapons that no one can figure out how to use.

Not last night we didn't.

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4 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

If there is one thing I have absolutely ZERO doubt about, it's that if Dak had been in that building against that D flying around the way it was, and down Gallup/Cooper/Jarwin in the 1st qtr, he would have totally and completely caved.  No doubt in my mind and I am about as bullish on Dak as anyone in here.

 

What Carson did in that 2nd half is something only elite Qb's can do.

idk, Dak played against the skins last year, with a rookie Michael Gallup and nothing else at receiver, the skins beat the dog piss out of him...…he played bad for a half or so, but didn't cave and came on down the stretch.. Now that throw Wentz had as he was falling....maybe 2-3 guys in the NFL can make that, and Dak is not one of them.

I thought Wentz showed toughness last night and as much as I laughed my arse off at him for 2 quarters, when he was utter garbage...I was impressed down the stretch...that to me was as good as a game winning drive....I'm not going to kill him over that....

that said......

But I think Eagle fans are going a little crazy. 1. He still had the best receiving TE in the NFL, a good #2 WR so it wasn't like he had nothing and his bad throws almost got both of them hurt as well

I mean he played well the last few possessions, but it's wasn't like he carried the team all night...it was only a game because Matt Ryan pissed down his leg, had Matt Ryan just played ok, the Eagles are down 20 by that point, it's never a game. I'm more bullish on Wentz than any Dallas fan on here or anywhere...I think he is a top 7-10 QB and better than Dak...but he was crap for 1/2 that game....he threw 2 int's and seriously tried to throw 3 more, so it wasn't like he played and played well under those conditions. That is what an elite  QB does...or they at least aren't brutal, and I have a hard time watching a QB go 25 of 43 for 231, 2 td's and 2ints (and threw about 3 other balls that should have been picked) and saying "only elite QB's do that!"

The guy showed great mental toughness and you give him weapons, like Djax, Jeffries and even one of those TE's and he'll put up elite level numbers and you guys are legit SB contenders...I still give the Eagles an edge on Dallas assuming health....but just like Dak, without weapons, Wentz isn't taking you guys anywhere .

             

 

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4 hours ago, Hefty Smurf said:

Don't get me wrong.  I don't put last night on Wentz.  I don't think he helped the situation in the 1st half, but he is far from the reason you guys lost.  From an outside perspective you guys have a serious play calling issue and an identity crises.  You go out and trade for Jordan Howard, spend a high pick on another RB, and bring back Sproles in an effort to help Carson and establish the run only to give up on it 1 quarter in.  I don't know that Doug or any other coach knows exactly what this team is at the moment.  You guys have a team full of weapons that no one can figure out how to use.

way too early to throw dirt on or crown anyone, it's a long season. Doug is just too caught up in his own press clippings at the moment. They have a big, strong OL, if they featured Howard, ran the ball and then ran a lot of play action, with those weapons and Wentz's improvational skills? they'd be hard to stop. Doug is a good coach, I think he will figure that out and they will go on a run 

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5 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

idk, Dak played against the skins last year, with a rookie Michael Gallup and nothing else at receiver, the skins beat the dog piss out of him...…he played bad for a half or so, but didn't cave and came on down the stretch.. Now that throw Wentz had as he was falling....maybe 2-3 guys in the NFL can make that, and Dak is not one of them.

I thought Wentz showed toughness last night and as much as I laughed my arse off at him for 2 quarters, when he was utter garbage...I was impressed down the stretch...that to me was as good as a game winning drive....I'm not going to kill him over that....

that said......

But I think Eagle fans are going a little crazy. 1. He still had the best receiving TE in the NFL, a good #2 WR so it wasn't like he had nothing and his bad throws almost got both of them hurt as well

I mean he played well the last few possessions, but it's wasn't like he carried the team all night...it was only a game because Matt Ryan pissed down his leg, had Matt Ryan just played ok, the Eagles are down 20 by that point, it's never a game. I'm more bullish on Wentz than any Dallas fan on here or anywhere...I think he is a top 7-10 QB and better than Dak...but he was crap for 1/2 that game....he threw 2 int's and seriously tried to throw 3 more, so it wasn't like he played and played well under those conditions. That is what an elite  QB does...or they at least aren't brutal, and I have a hard time watching a QB go 25 of 43 for 231, 2 td's and 2ints (and threw about 3 other balls that should have been picked) and saying "only elite QB's do that!"

The guy showed great mental toughness and you give him weapons, like Djax, Jeffries and even one of those TE's and he'll put up elite level numbers and you guys are legit SB contenders...I still give the Eagles an edge on Dallas assuming health....but just like Dak, without weapons, Wentz isn't taking you guys anywhere 

             

Wentz played at a very high level, given the circumstances, in the second half imo. I don't think it was so much the lack of weapons (well it sort of is) but it was losing them all at the same time literally moments before the game. Had they a week to prepare with the current group, I'm thinking he performs better.

But to me, we keep talking about his end game heroics or lack there of but I think you hit the real issue... slow starts. Football is a game of four quarters. Maybe 5 depending on OT. Wentz played exceptional for one half but that wasn't enough to climb out of the hole that he helped make in the first. If he plays average it's likely the Eagles win, but he was off on throws and timing and looked pretty poor.

As for the run game or lack there of, it's tough to say. It's easy for us fans to say they should of ran the ball more and it would of worked. But the Falcons were selling out on the run. With Jackson and Jeffery gone, they basically pressed our WR and dared them to beat us. The reality is we couldn't get the run game going and our receivers weren't making plays.. it took Carson until the end of the game to get into a good state, which was already too late.

With regards to throws getting his receivers hurt.. he definitely had a bad one to Ertz that did cause him some pain. The one to Agholor I think was tough all around. With no time left on the clock you have to squeeze one in there, and quick. I think he placed the ball exactly where it needed to be to let Agholor catch it while keeping it away from the defender as well, but he read that play and just decked him. 

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41 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

idk, Dak played against the skins last year, with a rookie Michael Gallup and nothing else at receiver, the skins beat the dog piss out of him...…he played bad for a half or so, but didn't cave and came on down the stretch.. Now that throw Wentz had as he was falling....maybe 2-3 guys in the NFL can make that, and Dak is not one of them.

I thought Wentz showed toughness last night and as much as I laughed my arse off at him for 2 quarters, when he was utter garbage...I was impressed down the stretch...that to me was as good as a game winning drive....I'm not going to kill him over that....

that said......

But I think Eagle fans are going a little crazy. 1. He still had the best receiving TE in the NFL, a good #2 WR so it wasn't like he had nothing and his bad throws almost got both of them hurt as well

I mean he played well the last few possessions, but it's wasn't like he carried the team all night...it was only a game because Matt Ryan pissed down his leg, had Matt Ryan just played ok, the Eagles are down 20 by that point, it's never a game. I'm more bullish on Wentz than any Dallas fan on here or anywhere...I think he is a top 7-10 QB and better than Dak...but he was crap for 1/2 that game....he threw 2 int's and seriously tried to throw 3 more, so it wasn't like he played and played well under those conditions. That is what an elite  QB does...or they at least aren't brutal, and I have a hard time watching a QB go 25 of 43 for 231, 2 td's and 2ints (and threw about 3 other balls that should have been picked) and saying "only elite QB's do that!"

The guy showed great mental toughness and you give him weapons, like Djax, Jeffries and even one of those TE's and he'll put up elite level numbers and you guys are legit SB contenders...I still give the Eagles an edge on Dallas assuming health....but just like Dak, without weapons, Wentz isn't taking you guys anywhere .

             

 

They've gotten to you too! :o 

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39 minutes ago, Stephen1 said:

way too early to throw dirt on or crown anyone, it's a long season. Doug is just too caught up in his own press clippings at the moment. They have a big, strong OL, if they featured Howard, ran the ball and then ran a lot of play action, with those weapons and Wentz's improvational skills? they'd be hard to stop. Doug is a good coach, I think he will figure that out and they will go on a run

Is this the time when you and I start propping up each other's team? 

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7 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

If there is one thing I have absolutely ZERO doubt about, it's that if Dak had been in that building against that D flying around the way it was, and down Gallup/Cooper/Jarwin in the 1st qtr, he would have totally and completely caved.  No doubt in my mind and I am about as bullish on Dak as anyone in here.

 

Cave?

Sorry, I haven't seen anything in that kids character that says "quitter".

With all due respect to Wentz, because everything here is seen through the prism of Eagles/Cowboys, I do find it funny that people see Wentz as the tough QB who's earned everything he's been given, whereas Prescott is the soft pampered guy who been given everything (millions & starting position before he played a game) and who cuts and runs when things don't go his way.

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I don't care for comparisons but I'd take Kellen Moore over Mike Groh everyday ending in 'y'.

I always knew Moore would be an excellent coordinator.

Maybe coach one day too.

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9 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

If there is one thing I have absolutely ZERO doubt about, it's that if Dak had been in that building against that D flying around the way it was, and down Gallup/Cooper/Jarwin in the 1st qtr, he would have totally and completely caved.  No doubt in my mind and I am about as bullish on Dak as anyone in here.

 

What Carson did in that 2nd half is something only elite Qb's can do.

What about what he did in the first half?

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5 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Is this the time when you and I start propping up each other's team? 

😂

3 hours ago, Quiet Boy said:

I don't care for comparisons but I'd take Kellen Moore over Mike Groh everyday ending in 'y'.

I always knew Moore would be an excellent coordinator.

Maybe coach one day too.

Idk, it’s 2 games and isn’t Doug really the OC? 

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6 hours ago, Northern Green Wings said:

Wentz played at a very high level, given the circumstances, in the second half imo. I don't think it was so much the lack of weapons (well it sort of is) but it was losing them all at the same time literally moments before the game. Had they a week to prepare with the current group, I'm thinking he performs better.

But to me, we keep talking about his end game heroics or lack there of but I think you hit the real issue... slow starts. Football is a game of four quarters. Maybe 5 depending on OT. Wentz played exceptional for one half but that wasn't enough to climb out of the hole that he helped make in the first. If he plays average it's likely the Eagles win, but he was off on throws and timing and looked pretty poor.

As for the run game or lack there of, it's tough to say. It's easy for us fans to say they should of ran the ball more and it would of worked. But the Falcons were selling out on the run. With Jackson and Jeffery gone, they basically pressed our WR and dared them to beat us. The reality is we couldn't get the run game going and our receivers weren't making plays.. it took Carson until the end of the game to get into a good state, which was already too late.

With regards to throws getting his receivers hurt.. he definitely had a bad one to Ertz that did cause him some pain. The one to Agholor I think was tough all around. With no time left on the clock you have to squeeze one in there, and quick. I think he placed the ball exactly where it needed to be to let Agholor catch it while keeping it away from the defender as well, but he read that play and just decked him. 

Great post...I think one other thing that went unnoticed is Truffaunt left the game and the Falcons then went almost exclusively to a zone defense and Carson picked them apart in the 2nd half.

i also agree, had Wentz and even Doug had a some time to prepare for Jackson and Jeffrey  being out, Wentz probably plays better and they probably win. 

 

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3 hours ago, Stephen1 said:

😂

Idk, it’s 2 games and isn’t Doug really the OC? 

You know the offense hasn't been the same since Reich and Defilipo left. Doug is a decent head coach and he trusts whoever he delegates to (see Schwartz with the defense and Duce for the RB rotation), but his trust is misplaced in Groh. We can't put together a full game on offense and it goes back to last season. Groh was in over his head as the WR coach and failed his way upward.

And it has been longer than 2 games for Moore. It's been a long time coming. He was drawing up plays since he was in high school. He collected NFL playbooks as a kid.

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4 hours ago, Quiet Boy said:

You know the offense hasn't been the same since Reich and Defilipo left. Doug is a decent head coach and he trusts whoever he delegates to (see Schwartz with the defense and Duce for the RB rotation), but his trust is misplaced in Groh. We can't put together a full game on offense and it goes back to last season. Groh was in over his head as the WR coach and failed his way upward.

And it has been longer than 2 games for Moore. It's been a long time coming. He was drawing up plays since he was in high school. He collected NFL playbooks as a kid.

And I fear that with Doug's loyalty to his guys, Groh will stick around for another 2-3 years and Carson and this offense won't really see it's full potential. We'll continue to have to dig out of holes due to Groh's horrific game planning.

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